Dunno why all those changes on pbe, but non that give her better engage. I played against trist today and you just cant get on her since E range is pathetic. Sometimes I think my keyboard doesnt work when I want to engage on someone, but thats just garbage range. Then you see twitch walking around invisible and one shotting with 800 range... I thought eve was supposed to be a stealth assassin.
Lord of Math13 votesShe could just have a movement speed buff on her W like her old one and it would be a solid buff. Make it give her a flat movement speed when she starts the charm charging. Like 10 20 30 40 50 for each rank of W? Or yeah increase her E range to 400 when she is in demon shade. Or give her E 600 range or so and make it a skillshot.
Durzaka7 votesHonestly, Eve needs any one of 3 things.
Less detect range on her stealth (seriously, its enormous)
More range on her E
A speed boost on her W
Any of those would acceptable and not OP at all.
Tik1155 votesPretty much, could have it like this
Detect range gets smaller the higher level you are
E range is a no duh
W should be if you are running towards your charmed target
Rımuru Tempest6 voteshaving the same thought about that, her E feels like a vayne Q with her range..
Nyarlathοtep24 votesWanna make you feel better? Vayne's q has a range of 300 while eve's e has 225 [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Handy Sandy 6 votesI think it's because riot wants her to use her stealth as her gapcloser, like sneaking up on someone from behind where they can't escape. If she had an actual gapcloser, then it'd be broken with her stealth and charm. Just imagine someone jumping at you from invis with no counterplay because she charmed you from fog of war.
Moonfall Saber1 votesRengar all over again
Brownie Elfie1 votesCept with rengar u get a mark over ur head so u know he ulted More like twitch but worse cuz instead of jumping he just one shots u from far away
IGotScuttleCrabs2 votesExcept thats shit engage if they have the side where you'd have to walk under tower to come from behind due to the massive detection range or if they're playing even remotely safe and/or have a dash/disengage of sorts.
Yiffy5 votesNo counterplay? You can tell EXACTLY where she is because, if marked, it give you an arrow pointing you to her location. Can't see her? 99% chance she's riiight outside the stealth-detection circle.
AyoLiko4201 votesI think it's because riot wants her to use her stealth as her gapcloser, like sneaking up on someone from behind where they can't escape. If she had an actual gapcloser, then it'd be broken with her stealth and charm. Just imagine someone jumping at you from invis with no counterplay because she charmed you from fog of war.
but they get to see her when shes come close.. its so dumb.. like y in the world.... not like rengar he goes invisible.. not eve though.. idk its so baqkward they play favorites with champs and i hate it..
AyoLiko4201 votesu mean ww or rengar or j4 or xhin Zhao or yi, or any jg mains.. wats ur point they all do that.. and khazix.. wait what is lee sin.. fr the gap close and instant erase is real and they played her like always.. fix that nasty E
Handy Sandy 1 votesu mean ww or rengar or j4 or xhin Zhao or yi, or any jg mains.. wats ur point they all do that.. and khazix.. wait what is lee sin.. fr the gap close and instant erase is real and they played her like always.. fix that nasty E
You can see all of them coming for you, and rengar has no way out after he dives in, so he's either going to get a kill and die, or just die.
stone the blacks5 votesok what if we all say eve is an adc so they will over buff her as they do with all popular adcs
Tik1154 votesI think right now they're scared to do anything big since Preseason is right around the corner
Now if she comes out of Pre-season with basically no buffs (Cause lets be honest she's really weak in all Elos) THEN its a big problem
Prestige Eve3 votesI think right now they're scared to do anything big since Preseason is right around the corner
Which is why they're letting guys like Twitch run rampant without a single word on it. I guess that's why Ardent stuck for so long until it embarrassed them in-front of thousands of people during LCS and they could no longer turn a blind eye to it.
Cowseed3 votesIt's might suck for eve though. Current champions can do better than eve without the new runes. When we switch over to the new system she might just end up ok while everyone else is relatively broken compared to her. I think because preseason is coming up soon they shouldn't be scared to make changes or rectify problems now. All balance is gonna go to shit anyway so what are they trying not to break?
Tik1151 votesThere might be another reason too
When old Eve wasn't complete trash she was the strongest ganker in the game, she could suddenly appear, show up and burst somebody down and you had to do much more extreme measures to be aware (Investing in vunrable pink wards, deep warding in the jungle to catch her before the stealth kicked in)
I think they don't want to go back to those days so are firmly holding on.
Now I personally disagree with their logic in this, make Eve OP they've shown to hotfix things (Hi Galio + Janna) so whats the harm here?
To me I'm defently on the side of "heavy buff eve" but i get why they arn't too
OyddAWqJ5r2 votesI've been playing her on PBE. It's not too different. Dark Harvest definitely ups her damage a bit though.
We haven't been hit with bigger non-rune preseason changes on PBE yet though.
invisiblecat14 votesHer E is fine, but her empowered E needs the ranged bumped up a lot
YuGiHo3 votesher e has a bunch of things tacked on that e does not need.
It is max hp damage so unless you are trying to assassinate a tank just having good base value and ap ratio would be nice enough.
It resets cooldown on entering stealth even though if eve manages to engage and then disengage a fight the cooldown till be up anyways.
It follows a dashing/blinking target but this almost never happens with the skills small cast range.
The last thing would e It gives eve a burst of move speed, but why would she need the speed if she already managed to hit her target with here shortest range spell?
I would trade all of these things to make the champion more usable in some way
Yiffy2 votesWhat do you mean the E doesn't need the cd reset? Have you seen the sustained damage she puts out? If she doesn't 1-shot an adc, the adc can fight back while she's useless for the next 5 seconds and kill her.
YuGiHo1 votesso how does the reset help in that situation. if an adc is shooting at eve and all her skills are down se wont reenter stealth and wont get her e cd reset and wont get the empowered e. she needs to be out of combat for 4 seconds after dealing damage or taking damage from an enemy champion so she will never get the reset.
only time she could was if she ulted away and then waited for her stealth but by the time she got back into e range of her target the skill would be off cd even if it didnt have a reset.
ºıºº v ººıº3 votesI rly feel like her Kit gets pretty weak like this... I would love to have an E that is empowered with Range instead of an E that is basicly an suicide move to dive... The dmg is totaly fine.... but the range is way too smal.... its also morelikely to not use charm when ganking since they will see your position.... Riot rly messed that up...
AmetDeCrypt2 votesold eve din't have no dash new eve got a tp she don't need another dash she's beautiful as she is. if you can land a nidalee spear you can land evelyn's q and that works just fine for her charm.
PokladnicaZla7 votesWhy would anyone waste the burst and escape on her R,just to use it as an engage?
Liveey9 votesWhy would anyone waste the burst and escape on her R,just to use it as an engage unless it's an emergency?
Bm points xD
PokladnicaZla1 votesI was thinking the wrong as using her R to escape as an emergency. Thanks points out the mistake :D
OyddAWqJ5r1 votesUsually when someone is at no health sitting under turret so you can just R in, E them for the movement speed and leave.
Similar stuff to that, just picking off low targets, never as a true engage.
Azadethe2 votesWhy would anyone waste the burst and escape on her R,just to use it as an engage?
Depends if it will secure a kill or not, and not put you in risk of dying.
I've done it vs a Cait or Trist who used net/jump to get out of my range at low hp, to hop backwards towards them and finish with a Q or E. It doesn't matter if you kill with R or a different skill; a Kill is a Kill.
PokladnicaZla1 votesUmm,her E can be used to follow movement abilities.
Thats true,tho the PBE change gives a 25% refund of CD if it kills someone and activates "Demon Shade".
It's not the worst idea,but it's not something to be done often at all.
Azadethe1 votesOnly Empowered E can follow and usually if you are in a fight, you won't get close enough to use an empowered E any other way than as an initial engage (far more reliable than telling people where you are before you E or Q). I've grabbed a few Graves trying to berry away with E. But..... the move speed from a COMMON E won't follow movement skills. There.... you pretty much eithr have to decide to give up, or to use R.
The PBE mod will make people consider, but using your ult for a kill just isn't always possible (although a bot lane just set me up for 3 double kills vs karma and jinx last game...)
Tbh Post PBE, Eve is probably going to be just as annoying if not moreso than a fed Zed. The fact AD is getting introduced back into the E brings so many more possibilities back to eve's build..... Like a Sterak's or Hextech gunblade, both of which impact a Lich bane, and add some serious presence to Eve. I'm personally looking forward to Sterak's, because the tenacity is REALLY nice vs lockdown teams that prevent you from ulting out. The fact that you can Sterak's + Ult and automatically go into Demon Shade is really scary.
That brings me back to the convo about using an Ult to chase.... post PBE, her ult is going to reset empowered E. In other words, it will enable a DOUBLE dash after you've already blown one on an engage. 3 if you still have Flash..... Whose gonna be able to run from that?
PokladnicaZla1 votesYou use your Q to proc the charm,Q again and then E to follow any movement skill they use.After that it's nearly certain kill.
Yeah,Im not happy about the E change either.It's just going to get her nefed cause of Hextech.
Umm,PBE doesn't her Demon shade activate only if she kills someone with her R?
Azadethe1 votesYou use your Q to proc the charm,Q again and then E to follow any movement skill they use.After that it's nearly certain kill.
Yeah,Im not happy about the E change either.It's just going to get her nefed cause of Hextech.
Umm,PBE doesn't her Demon shade activate only if she kills someone with her R?
This is NOT the most reliable kill. I know people subscribe to Q being the end all for a charm, but it's a CHOREOGRAPHED PLAY. If you charm 70% of the champs out there, they will respond, you will lose them, or they will kill you!
If you W >Q a Lux for example, she absolutely will respond, will hit you with everything in her kit, and she will get to ult you the same time as your charm procs, resulting in your death and her charm status after.
I'm not saying there aren't times where W > Q is the right call (no escape corridors where you are moving perpendicular to your target and they have no way to dodge it), but it's definitely NOT the right call 70% of the time as you will lose your target.
You're not going to divebomb a team play 5v5 with Q. Your E out of Demon Shade can do aoe damage to their group that takes about 40% of the entire group's HP when considering the flat damage + % damage. Even if you only E and R out of a team fight, you can do about 60-70% of the entire group's HP in damage, which allows your team to clean up. If you Q from the outskirts, you maybe hit 2 people, do much less damage, and make yourself a visible, easily snipeable target.
Most 1v1's if you want to get close and ENSURE a charm, once again..... E puts you right on top of them, so they will ALWAYS be in range of a charm if they run. If you rely on a W> Q to charm, 1) They know you're there 2) you're likely to lose your target pre charm or 3) if you do manage a charm, you might not reach them in time to E or R.
The highest kills I've done on the new Eve is 19/8/21. My worst game has been 4/6/7. I'm usually closer to 10/2/13. I think that's pretty good to be giving advice.
I'm not on the PBE atm, so I don't know the actual incarnation of these changes. I just know where to find notes. Even if Demon shade only resets on R if you kill someone, I could still make use of it in a bot lane, or group fight, especially if I run a Sterak's. Go in ham.... kill one of 5 on the ult out while massively damaging the rest, and then go back in to pick up scraps.
The E change isn't a HUGE damage boost..... only about 60 on a full build and Eve arguably lacks damage over the course vs other assassins, so it's not a game breaker. But it will give Eve the option to HEAL IN BATTLE again. Which again... isn't a game breaker, and I doubt we'd get a nerf just because of it.
Cowseed7 votesOld eve had ms boost and smaller stealth radius it's a blink, not a tp. And it takes you away from the target if you use it for damage and if you use it to gapclose you lose the damage on it. What the heck do you mean she's beautiful as she is? We don't balance champs around looks dude. Nidalee spear is one istance of damage. Eve q is 4. Nidalee spear has longer range and more burst.
OyddAWqJ5r3 votesMy gripe is her Q's base damage. The thing has no CD scaling, no AP increase per rank, just 50 damage per rank across every hit of Q.
That means that the skillshot Q, the bonus damage from each mark of Q and all 3 hate spikes only do max 50 more damage per rank.
I mean, that scaling is amazing vs monsters since it has a 60% reduced CD but vs champs you can hardly feel the difference per rank.
Bears Dont Care3 votes[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AM0HsT4u,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-10-28T22:58:32.791+0000)
My gripe is her Q's base damage. The thing has no CD scaling, no AP increase per rank, just 50 damage per rank across every hit of Q.
That means that the skillshot Q, the bonus damage from each mark of Q and all 3 hate spikes only do max 50 more damage per rank.
I mean, that scaling is amazing vs monsters since it has a 60% reduced CD but vs champs you can hardly feel the difference per rank.
Azadethe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AM0HsT4u,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-10-28T23:17:11.431+0000)
- The scaling AP/AD was used to nerf Evelynn in her previous iteration. It was the main reason you maxed it first, because the damage was garbage otherwise.
- The scaling on her Q at level 1 rank, is 1.95, which is much higher than the old .5 she used to have.
- It has an insane amount of total damage. Her issue is that she cannot get close to her target
It's not quite a direct comparison on 2.
Old Q's cooldown base was 1.5 seconds, with no skill shot conditions to damage, or aim.
New Q's basic Minion CD is 3.6 Seconds, with a 2 Second cast time.
At level 1, Old Eve on standard runes did 53.6 damage per cast per 1.5 seconds.
New Eve does 32.8 initial damage to one target, then 16.5 additional X3 to the main target, and 32.8 X 3 to subsequent targets and the main.
That's a bit contrived, but let's break it down:
Target 1 gets 180 damage per cast per 3.6 seconds. Subsequent targets get 98.4 damage per 3.6 seconds.
So, let's break it down to per second damage:
old: 35.73 to all targets. new: 50 damage to the initial target per second. 27.33 damage per second to consecutive targets.
So, Her damage probably hasn't actually significantly increased on Q's Base or at the start of the skill. Her Blue, Gromp, and Red clears are faster, but her Krugs/Wraiths/Wolves are probably about the same speed. Her Scuttle there's no comparison: once she has charm, much faster.
But merely gauging Q is quite a bit misleading.
The AD/AP scaling really did nothing at all to nerf her. In fact it was a major buff from iteration #1, which actually had a crap passive, E was her Ult, and Stealth was W, and E was magic penetration debuff with 100% AP scaling.
If anything, it was a buff, that allowed people to fully utilize hybrid weapons or even use her bruiser items that made her insane, like a Trinity Edge, which gave her a Phage move speed buff along with serious stats. Pure AP Eve actually fell in efficiency as time went by, because although she was a good assassin, she just wasn't very good at anything else, where an AD build could pull off more damage, stick better, survive better, and push lanes better.
I had some Eve builds that had 350 AD and 440 AP. I could 1v5 teams if I got there.
Bears Dont Care1 votesIt's not quite a direct comparison on 2.
Old Q's cooldown base was 1.5 seconds, with no skill shot conditions to damage, or aim.
New Q's basic Minion CD is 3.6 Seconds, with a 2 Second cast time.
At level 1, Old Eve on standard runes did 53.6 damage per cast per 1.5 seconds.
New Eve does 32.8 initial damage to one target, then 16.5 additional X3 to the main target, and 32.8 X 3 to subsequent targets and the main.
That's a bit contrived, but let's break it down:
Target 1 gets 180 damage per cast per 3.6 seconds. Subsequent targets get 98.4 damage per 3.6 seconds.
So, let's break it down to per second damage:
old: 35.73 to all targets. new: 50 damage to the initial target per second. 27.33 damage per second to consecutive targets.
So, Her damage probably hasn't actually significantly increased on Q's Base or at the start of the skill. Her Blue, Gromp, and Red clears are faster, but her Krugs/Wraiths/Wolves are probably about the same speed. Her Scuttle there's no comparison: once she has charm, much faster.
But merely gauging Q is quite a bit misleading.
The AD/AP scaling really did nothing at all to nerf her. In fact it was a major buff from iteration #1, which actually had a crap passive, E was her Ult, and Stealth was W, and E was magic penetration debuff with 100% AP scaling.
If anything, it was a buff, that allowed people to fully utilize hybrid weapons or even use her bruiser items that made her insane, like a Trinity Edge, which gave her a Phage move speed buff along with serious stats. Pure AP Eve actually fell in efficiency as time went by, because although she was a good assassin, she just wasn't very good at anything else, where an AD build could pull off more damage, stick better, survive better, and push lanes better.
I had some Eve builds that had 350 AD and 440 AP. I could 1v5 teams if I got there.
Are you considering cdr? CDR reduces the cast time of each hatespike as well, not just the initial cast itself. On top of this, yes it was a nerf. Check the previous iterations where she had static ratios. They changed it so her ratios were crap at rank 1 to reduce her early game gank potential and improved at later ranks. Problem was this had an effect of making her terrible at early game ganks unless you had significant amounts of time to burst a champ down.
Azadethe3 votesOld eve had ms boost and smaller stealth radius it's a blink, not a tp. And it takes you away from the target if you use it for damage and if you use it to gapclose you lose the damage on it. What the heck do you mean she's beautiful as she is? We don't balance champs around looks dude. Nidalee spear is one istance of damage. Eve q is 4. Nidalee spear has longer range and more burst.
Atm She's pulling a 50.9% win rate, and the best builds are running 60% wins.
Also, R's hit box is EXTREMELY forgiving.... I've killed people who are outside the semicircle and more of within a "rectangle" that includes the semi circle.
No ult or skill is a perfect cure all for all situations. But I can tell you this. If you think outside the box, the current Eve has no natural counters. I can easily go 200 Armor 200 resist and still push 330 AP, 45% CDR, and reliably pull a 35k damage game. She can be invaded by certain champs, but even then, in the long run, you can build her viable to any team composition.
AyoLiko4201 votesu must not play league.. ive had to watch games happen where theres no reason to engage with her because she cant burst the tanks and don't talk 2v1 or bein the last person up on ur team.. omg yea hold a cho and trist at lvl 10 with just eve and a tower.. u can.. but its hard af and almost suicidal.. idk shes laqking in a few areas
Azadethe2 votesI have a very different experience when I play her semi tanky. Ofc, atm 98% of all Eve's are building glass cannon, in which case you'd be correct.
In a Cho/Trist scenario.... there's serious considerations. are both fed? are they half hp or full? Is just the trist fed and the cho sucks?
By the time that becomes an issue in a game, you should have those answers. If both are fed, the best you can do is use your ult to clear their minion wave and get you out of targettable range. You can sometimes save a turret just by killing the minions.
If The Trist is fed but the cho sucks, Target the trist and take her out in 2 seconds.... before cho can respond and hopefully before Trist is uncharmed. Then depending on the cho, target him at your leisure. You might need 2 rounds of stealth to do it, but it's doable.
If the Cho is fed but the trist sucks, Target the trist anyways, and reserve your ult for Cho's knockup. Hopefully you kill the sucky trist, and position yourself far enough away from the cho you can begin a 1v1 Cat and mouse before your team arrives to help.
No champion can beat every scenario. Eve can beat more than her fair share. (I'm even getting to where I can assassinate a Kha Zix XD)
Somebody Love Me3 votesold eve din't have no dash new eve got a tp she don't need another dash she's beautiful as she is. if you can land a nidalee spear you can land evelyn's q and that works just fine for her charm.
Except Nidalee doesn't warn you 2.5 seconds in advance that she's about to throw a spear.
Neither does Elise when the cocoon is coming.
Altiverse2 votesSuggested this weeks ago. Downvoted to oblivion... Just boards stuff [sg-lux-2]
Ęvelynn2 votesi wish she had a lower cook time on W with rank or level. its so long
TimX24968B2 votesshe needs more reliability in her kit first.
NakedGranny1 votesHonestly, I think she's fine.
The main problem is that all the other assassins are too powerful just in general. The damage creep right now is insane.
The only reason assassins are not currently the main problem with the game is that marksmen are able to literally 1v5 due to lifesteal in combination with their astronomical damage output.
Existential Bard1 votesI have been playing eve a lot. I feel the E is fine. For eve ganks you don't want to engage with your E. you W, Q, E, Q,Q, R. Mobi-boots are definitely a must so you can properly catch up to them right as your charm pops. Side note: popping W early applies a decent slow so you can still get your combo off.
Goodwill1 votesI agree
