"We want %HP True damage to remain a rare mechanic" - Meddler 2015

FalconPawwwwnch·Aug 5, 2015·52 votes·7,316 views

Source

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/irLpgEUx-health-true-damage?comment=0005000200000000

4 years between Vayne and Fiora, not even a month between Fiora and Garen lmfao

45 Comments

RiotMeddlerAug 5, 201551 votes

Yeah, my bad there, I'd blanked on the fact we'd put this on Garen when I made that comment. We still don't intend to use this widely, but I should definitely have mentioned we had another case in development.

TheLastBaron88Aug 5, 201534 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, my bad there, I'd blanked on the fact we'd put this on Garen when I made that comment. We still don't intend to use this widely, but I should definitely have mentioned we had another case in development.

I just want to take a moment to point out that you tied a mechanic meant for tank busting to a passive which targets people who get kills, who are usually squishy damage-dealers... and apparently wrecked Garen's early power and both offensive and defensive scalings to do so...

I really don't see how this is going to help him do anything at all. I really do like the anti-snowball shutdown-focus idea, especially as a tie-in to actually make his ultimate worth something later on, but I don't understand at all why you wrecked the silence on his Q (which is what gives him strong matchups in lane) as well as removing base damage and crit scaling from Judgement, which was a pretty unique thing for a bruiser to have. RIP IE synergy.

Oh and the abysmally low hard-cap on defensive scaling for W? The tenacity removal from the active, which was meant to let garen soldier his way into the fights? That change alone makes it look like he will be weaker than Season 2 Garen as a pick.

RetillinAug 5, 20157 votes

This is a really good point.

WullfAug 5, 20152 votes

I really do like the anti-snowball shutdown-focus idea

Seems to me that this would better fit an item.

An item named "Last resort" with bad stats but specifically made for shuting down the most dangerous enemy player.

The Yetii RiderAug 5, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Seems to me that this would better fit an item.

An item named "Last resort" with bad stats but specifically made for shuting down the most dangerous enemy player.

"Deal double damage against any champion who was enough of a jerk to buy Mejai's Soulstealer or Sword of the Occult"

WullfAug 5, 20151 votes

PER-FECT!!

JofeyyAug 5, 20152 votes

LOL "in case of fed enemy break glass."

FalconPawwwwnchAug 5, 20152 votes

Off topic, that new hydra item, does that fulfill the item you described the other day?

Specifically, you mentioned that fighters need an item that worked like Atma's did (allowing tank stats to scale into things that didn't benefit tanks) but in a more healthy way. It seems like that was the item you were describing.

RiotMeddlerAug 5, 20155 votes

Yeah, that was the example I had in mind. Possible we might revisit that space at some point too, offer another approach based off the same principle as well (though likely as an alternative rather than something that stacks with Titanic Hydra).

FalconPawwwwnchAug 5, 20152 votes

Gotcha.

Does Sterak's Gage's base 25% damage increase trinity force procs? I thought it would but I'm not sure based on how its coded

Sire HippingtonAug 5, 20151 votes

it does indeed, sterak's+trinity on scarner = ~350 damage procs(tested on pbe)

Dextix LTAug 5, 20154 votes

NOt much related. But please, PLEASE stop reworking garen! THis is not a good rework, you are nerfing him all over the place! Fcking dont even think about doing this. ANd dont even dare to touch shen when you cant even handle the balancing of fcking garen! Just dont!

Chaotic SageAug 5, 20152 votes

Did you actually read the notes on Garen? Cause it's not a huge nerf, it's a bunch of little nerfs and removal of the randomly snowballing AD Garen that wasn't at all fun to deal with. Yes, they nerfed him, but they added a lot to what he does in game beyond being a spinning damage sponge with a reasonably weak execute late game. The description was an early nerf with a buff to usefulness late...the notes read pretty darn close to that imo.

Dextix LTAug 5, 20151 votes

Wait, they added something? The only thing they added was an ultimate buff against the enemy killers. Thats it. ALl of his other abilities were nerfed. You want to tell me that garen was toxic to play against?

HA!

Chaotic SageAug 5, 20152 votes

Well, they changed most of the abilities rather than 100% nerfing them. Albeit most of them are overall nerfs early for the most part but if you look at it in depth they really just did what they said and made his early game a little less oppressive while making him a bit more relevant late game with the villain passive. It's not going to be useful all the time, but I think it'll be more useful than he was pre-patch. How about instead of just complaining on the forums you could actually give it a chance and play the new Garen. Then if you still don't like it, come back and say what you don't like rather than making general, useless complaints.

Dextix LTAug 5, 20151 votes

All of those changes were direct nerfs. Also, no, they didnt make him relevant lategame. With the current nerfed kit he wont even get close to the enemy to use his kit. They nerfeed him early, and for the rest of the game.

I dont want to give a chance for such obviously shitty rework which directly nerfs an already mediocre champion.

Chaotic SageAug 5, 20151 votes

Once again, I'll ask, have you played the new Garen yet? If not, you opinion here is unfortunately not really useful as there's another thread where someone has actually been testing it out whom is very satisfied with the new kit just asking for a handful of clarifications on things. Please feel free to voice your opinion again once you've tried him in a handful of games in even match-ups.

Dextix LTAug 5, 20151 votes

I have indeed tested him out, and that is why i am talking like this. He is fcking useless. His early game is nerfed so now he counters noone. Yiu cant even get near the enemy team because of the tenacity and q nerfs. when you use e you are better off just going full aa on the enemy than using your own skill!

This new garen is nerfed to the ground. He received only 1 buff, and even that one is situational and useoless because with the current nerfedgaren kit you cant even apply the strenght from the buff.

The only time i felt stronger than before was when i managed to catch the enemy adc in the jungle and ambush him. And thats it.

Chaotic SageAug 5, 20151 votes

Yea, you've gone full blind qq complaint mode. Sounds like you're just doing it wrong. Not gonna continue to encourage you by responding after this as nothing you're saying is in any way productive. Byebye

Dextix LTAug 5, 20151 votes

It is funny that you are running away after i indeed said that i have tested him. Didnt count on that before writing, did you?

Also i am not doing it wrong since i have mained this guy in previous seasons and played with him.

It is not qq. It is objective. Look at the numbers and how they were changed. Even objectively looking only at numbers you can see that this was a nerf.

Even before this "rework" garen had a trouble getting to the enemy as he was easily kiteable. The current "reworked" kit multiplies that problem by taking away some of the sentials tools for garen to get to the enemy team.

P.S. If what i say is not productive (even thought like you asked i have tested him out and i have played him before for a long time) Then how would you value your own contribution to this "discussion"?

Chaotic SageAug 5, 20151 votes

TL;DR To the P.S. I never said mine was, just that yours wasn't. Was kind of the whole reason I was responding since you were essentially just flaming Riot to begin with. Good reading comprehension skills there buddy :)

Dextix LTAug 5, 20151 votes

Nice straw man. I didnt talk about what you said, i asked you a simple question.

I think its your reading comprehension skills that are in need of help because you cannot even comprehend a simple question directed to you.

I will also take a page from your book.

Have you played with the new garen, at least 20 games (Like i have)?

Have you played with garen, at least 150 games (Like i have)?

If you have not, then what right over me do you have to talk as if i was in blind rage. Because from what i am seeing you are simply blindly defending riot while purposefully ignoring the objective numerical nerfs to garen.

Phuc Dat BichAug 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, my bad there, I'd blanked on the fact we'd put this on Garen when I made that comment. We still don't intend to use this widely, but I should definitely have mentioned we had another case in development.

i hope you see what is going on everywhere about the new Garen kit huh? you see that everyone complain that this new E would make him useless huh? because if you dont then i dont know what more you need....

Because if you come with the idea that Garen should lose 1 second from his silence on his Q and lose 20% MS when he Use his E on a champion then god damn god damn dude....

Troy242621Aug 5, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, my bad there, I'd blanked on the fact we'd put this on Garen when I made that comment. We still don't intend to use this widely, but I should definitely have mentioned we had another case in development.

Given % max health is almost universally hated, I really think it should stay uncommon. I'm of the opinion it shouldn't exist at all, but it can be O.K. if there is significant weakness in other areas to make up for the reduced counterplay in this area.

Really don't think it should be common though.

GhostOfShrimpmasAug 5, 20151 votes

Good thing it's not, then.

AMYS GRAVEAug 5, 20153 votes

Why % MAX hp true damage.

If garen is supposed to hunt down and execute villains why not % missing hp true damage to double down with that theme?

Why not % current hp true damage to help him get into ult execute range while making it harder for him to get the kill without his ult?

Why not flat true damage to help him kill squishy targets faster? They didn't build defenses after all...

I think in garen's case that any of these could be better tools for the job.

Props for admitting your forgetfulness though. Appreciate the honesty.

Blade of JusticAug 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, my bad there, I'd blanked on the fact we'd put this on Garen when I made that comment. We still don't intend to use this widely, but I should definitely have mentioned we had another case in development.

You know what? I appreciate a person who can just as easily admit their mistakes when they make them far more than someone who makes mistakes and talks about them like achievements.

+1 and mad respects, Meddler.

LowvyrAug 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, my bad there, I'd blanked on the fact we'd put this on Garen when I made that comment. We still don't intend to use this widely, but I should definitely have mentioned we had another case in development.

A recent redpost that actually got upvoted in the heat of all this armor, juggernaut reworks, etc. I'm honestly surprised.

Oerba No NajaAug 6, 20151 votes

can we buff cassio pls ?

360D3GR3SSAug 5, 20157 votes

It is a rare mechanic (2.38% of champions have this). Infact it is more rare than most legendary drops outside of rifts in diablo 3 on normal mode. (between 2.5% and 5%) Ontop of this, garen can only deal true damage to marked enemies (whoever most recently killed a champion).

in terms of diablo drop rates %hp true damage is ranked as a rare legendary. ( legendary tiers: normal 10% , uncommon 5%, rare2.5%, ultra rare 1%) and these drop rate are IF the game decides to drop the specific item, it has a 10% chance of actually dropping. (meaning it is far lower than the listed percents above)

RetroRage96Aug 5, 20152 votes

Why do we care?

360D3GR3SSAug 5, 20152 votes

because he is making fun of meddlers quote, when in fact it is still an extremely rare mechanic.

RetroRage96Aug 5, 20151 votes

I mean, why do we need to know all the Diablo drop rates and their relation to this?

2.38% speaks for itself.

360D3GR3SSAug 6, 20151 votes

Because I assumed some people who play LoL also play diablo.

AutoreactiveCD4Aug 5, 20152 votes

There's the logic. I do see why people are concerned that they added it to 2 champs so close together however.

Sidenote: I'm actually quite happy that when Meddler showed up to admit it slipped his mind (like what happens to everyone everntually) nobody is going into personal insults. Maybe there is hope?

Phuc Dat BichAug 5, 20154 votes

Do you see Garen new kit? yeah go check it and dont worry about him nobody would play him any more!!

I mean now you slow your self when you deal damage to enemies so you know you can walk away from him....

Linna ExcelAug 5, 20154 votes

OP forget soraka's W.

aaronautumnAug 5, 20152 votes

it's still kind of rare. less than 5% of all champs have it.

SS EnforcerAug 5, 20151 votes

Actually, it's not %HP true damage. It's damage is not based on your opponent's health, but rather on their missing health, and even then, it's not given in %.

ChaosThiefAug 5, 20151 votes

The passive of garen's new ult deals 1% (yes, 1 measly percent) of their maximum health as true damage on auto attacks.

SS EnforcerAug 5, 20151 votes

Oh. I thougth he meant the ult. My apologies.