@Meddler: new rift herald requires an inventory slot. What if you don't have one?

Jesus is Savior·Apr 15, 2017·56 votes·8,820 views

As an example:

Can't you guys figure out a better way to do this?

EDIT: since people are dumb: I'm talking about the inability to pick up the item if your item slots are full, which is entirely dependent on how complete your items are - and after the IE/zeal changes, it might be "meta" to build 2 items at once instead of completing one then the other.

EDIT 2: "Why are you taking herald alone? Your top laner should have an inventory slot" - what if the enemy team tries to stop us and kills my top laner? Should I really be denied the buff because I have no slots open, even though I successfully killed the herald and didn't die like my dumbass teammate?

92 Comments

Umbral RegentApr 15, 201725 votes

I think the Rift Herald will probably be killed early enough in the game that someone is going to have a slot free to use it, at least hypothetically.

Jesus is SaviorApr 15, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-15T18:50:33.572+0000)

I think the Rift Herald will probably be killed early enough in the game that someone is going to have a slot free to use it, at least hypothetically.

Depends entirely on how complete your items are.

What if you need to split your build between 2 items just to be able to handle the herald? Especially after the zeal/IE changes, this might be the norm on someone like Master Yi (and even just ADCs in general):

item 1038 item 1037 item 3086

Throw in a jungle item, potion, and 1 more item component, and all of a sudden you can't pick up the herald buff.

SH AzykanApr 15, 20178 votes

or even instead of the potion, boots

BunnymapApr 15, 201716 votes

I'd assume thats part of the tradeoff for getting the empowered recall and lane pushing power.

Jesus is SaviorApr 15, 201719 votes

{quoted}

I'd assume thats part of the tradeoff for getting the empowered recall and lane pushing power.

Not being able to pick up the item is a "trade off"?

underscores222Apr 15, 201718 votes

The trade off is - I get empowered recall for an item slot that can then be used to massively push a lane. The player decides how long to keep the threat

If you don't have an item slot, why are you trying to take herald? Herald also requires at least 2 people to take easily - top and/or mid will probably have an open slot.

junglerboy16Apr 16, 20171 votes

His point is what if your slots are full and you can't pick it up in the first place. That's where the issue is, not having to hold it in a slot once you get it, but being locked out of picking it up because of how you bought your items.

RavenMagusApr 16, 20173 votes

Yeah, but the other point is how it needs two people to take it anyways, so someone is bound to have an open item slot.

Jesus is SaviorApr 16, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, but the other point is how it needs two people to take it anyways, so someone is bound to have an open item slot.

Unless the enemy tries to stop you and kills the only people with slots available.

Supreme Senpai69Apr 16, 20173 votes

You're not wrong but isn't that sorta an extremely specific scenario? And at that point maybe the enemy deserves to have it?

WimbledofyApr 16, 20172 votes

why would the enemy deserve to have it if they only got 1 kill but loses the fight over all?

Supreme Senpai69Apr 16, 20175 votes

Because they contested it, were smart enough to assassinate the ones who could use the buff, and calculated they could do that despite the odds? And because the team that won the fight is boosted af if more than one of them have zero inventory slots open that early in the game while trying to get Rift Herald.

Like it's not that hard. Firstly... have at least one open slot 18 minutes or sooner into the game. 99% of the time you should or you're building horribly. Sometimes you fill all your slots up though and that's understandable. But if that's you, don't try to take rift herald. And if that's you and you try to take rift herald, bring someone along that can use the buff. And if you do all of this and the enemy comes to contest it and you can win the fight, then protect the people with the open slots.

Tbh this is an extremely specific argument for the sake of arguing I feel like. Like this'll never happen and if it does then you deserve not to get the buff.

WimbledofyApr 17, 20171 votes

Feels like we are playing a completely different game. This isn't currently part of the game yet you're acting like it is. Why is it necessary and why should they deserve it? Why does it have to be like that? And I asked why would they deserve it and if they are dead they clearly don't deserve and can't even get it anyways, so your answer to my question didn't really make much sense.

Center of lifeApr 16, 20171 votes

Yes, but why would a jungler need it anyway, it's far more useful for a laner to have, than a jungler

underscores222Apr 16, 20173 votes

It seems like a pretty useless hypothetical at this point. The odds of having 2 or 3 people with full inventories before 20 minutes is probably very small. Herald is probably best given to a laner. In general, top and mid do not fill up all inventory slots before 20 minutes, so someone should always be able to pick it up.

If you drop a pink before taking herald, you will for sure have a slot (assuming you don't have multiple pinks stacked up)

Jesus is SaviorApr 16, 20174 votes

{quoted}

The trade off is - I get empowered recall for an item slot that can then be used to massively push a lane. The player decides how long to keep the threat

If you don't have an item slot, why are you trying to take herald? Herald also requires at least 2 people to take easily - top and/or mid will probably have an open slot.

What if the enemy team tried to stop us from taking herald and the only person with inventory slots died - should I really be denied the buff because of that? I wasn't the dumbass who died.

Maximum MordeApr 16, 20172 votes

Yes.

Jesus is SaviorApr 16, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=00020000000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-16T03:09:45.549+0000)

Yes.

So never attempt herald in solo queue - got it. A+ gameplay mechanic.

SkiasApr 16, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dat Master Yi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-04-15T20:00:58.033+0000)

Not being able to pick up the item is a "trade off"?

Yeah, I'm not sold on a clunky UI being a "Trade Off". If you take the risk and take the objective, you should be able to take the reward.

RiotRiot SotereApr 17, 201714 votes

Heyas,

Current plan is to have the Eye of the Herald fill in your trinket slot. Then when you summon the Herald, your trinket will reappear like magic. This isn't a perfect solution, but the added pressure to summon the Herald to get back your trinkets functionality seems like a better trade off than blocking people out who have full inventories.

When we had it put into the inventory, it was fine about 90% of the time, but that other 10% wasn't acceptable.

SohleksApr 17, 20171 votes

I heard it had to be used back in base..?

If it can only be used close to your nexus then being unable to use the trinket almost never matters at all!

No wait...

Why not make defeat of the herald place something near your nexus instead.? Maybe the nexus is the place the magic happens. It's not as clear the first time but...?

SkyroarApr 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2017-04-17T07:09:34.652+0000)

Heyas,

Current plan is to have the Eye of the Herald fill in your trinket slot. Then when you summon the Herald, your trinket will reappear like magic. This isn't a perfect solution, but the added pressure to summon the Herald to get back your trinkets functionality seems like a better trade off than blocking people out who have full inventories.

When we had it put into the inventory, it was fine about 90% of the time, but that other 10% wasn't acceptable.

What if it only goes to your trinket slot if you have your inventory full?

RiotRiot SotereApr 17, 20172 votes

I liked that idea. We get a lot of benefit out of it having a consistent location, though.

SkyroarApr 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=002300010000,timestamp=2017-04-17T21:20:13.742+0000)

I liked that idea. We get a lot of benefit out of it having a consistent location, though.

True, but considering how Herald is an early/ mid game objective, players will consistently not have their inventory full, so the exceptional location will only occur in exceptional situations. The players will usually be aware of those cases because habit will teach them to have a free slot for Herald, so when they don't, they'll remember that little piece of description that such item would have explaining the exception. Because players can make this analogy (exceptional case > exceptional rule), and because it's intuitive ("if my inventory is full, then either I can't pick it, or it'll have a different behaviour"), it would make the mechanic not as confusing and obscure as it otherwise could be.

Alternatively, just have the herald spawn automatically on full inventory, and have him move automatically to the nearest/ top lane. It also makes sense, it's also intuitive, and I'd say any of those two solutions would be less confusing than screwing with the trinket system/ vision habits. In fact, the pressure to spawherald will be so high, if it is imbued in the trinket system, that you may as well have it spawn right at that moment, IMO.

This second mechanic already exists with elixirs, and it seems to work fine to me.

UnbornHereticApr 17, 20171 votes

It does not have to have a hotkey because I doubt you would be using it in the middle of a fight, perhaps you can just click it.

OleandervineApr 17, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2017-04-17T07:09:34.652+0000)

Heyas,

Current plan is to have the Eye of the Herald fill in your trinket slot. Then when you summon the Herald, your trinket will reappear like magic. This isn't a perfect solution, but the added pressure to summon the Herald to get back your trinkets functionality seems like a better trade off than blocking people out who have full inventories.

When we had it put into the inventory, it was fine about 90% of the time, but that other 10% wasn't acceptable.

Why not bind it to an emote-like effect? Like you get a fancy aura that doesn't go away if you die, and pressing Ctrl-7 or something in the lane summons the beast.

ModThe DjinnApr 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2017-04-17T07:09:34.652+0000) When we had it put into the inventory, it was fine about 90% of the time, but that other 10% wasn't acceptable.

Have you explored making it an interactive UI element like Kindred's target-prioritization feature? It seems like it might be a good place to use that sort of mechanic, especially since, as a strategic tool instead of an in-combat ability, the extra second or two to locate and interact with the element doesn't seem problematic.

EROTIC RAID BOSSApr 17, 20171 votes

I would've put had it go to the store if you didn't have room in your inventory but I guess that could have complications too.

or do a big kindred like button

Jesus is SaviorApr 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2017-04-17T07:09:34.652+0000)

Heyas,

Current plan is to have the Eye of the Herald fill in your trinket slot. Then when you summon the Herald, your trinket will reappear like magic. This isn't a perfect solution, but the added pressure to summon the Herald to get back your trinkets functionality seems like a better trade off than blocking people out who have full inventories.

When we had it put into the inventory, it was fine about 90% of the time, but that other 10% wasn't acceptable.

Awesome, thanks. Great solution.

DarkRitualApr 15, 201713 votes

You save an item spot for it. Like how supports are expected to for control wards.

DrCyanideApr 16, 20179 votes

Viktor 's """"passive"""" strikes again! item 3200 item 2031 item 1001 item 1052 item 3802 item 3108

SalronApr 16, 20176 votes

Then don't do herald if you don't have a slot open on both people Sell your potion before attempting it or something

Meep ManApr 16, 20176 votes

Why would you do it without any open slots? This is preplanning stuff.

Jesus is SaviorApr 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chicken Dynasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2017-04-16T03:36:08.074+0000)

Why would you do it without any open slots? This is preplanning stuff.

Why would I not want to fill my open slots?

If I go back and DON'T buy an item and then die in a gank because of it (I was too weak), that's worse than not getting the herald.

JunkοApr 16, 20171 votes

Why the fuck would you WANT to fill up your item slots? An item in the game has max 3 components, even if you fill up all the slots with boots, pots and control wards, you can just use up the later 2 so they disappear.

Now if you are building 2+ items at once, then what the fuck is wrong with you.

Jesus is SaviorApr 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why the fuck would you WANT to fill up your item slots? An item in the game has max 3 components, even if you fill up all the slots with boots, pots and control wards, you can just use up the later 2 so they disappear.

Now if you are building 2+ items at once, then what the fuck is wrong with you.

after the IE/zeal changes, building those 2 items at once will be standard meta (likely BF sword -> zeal -> finish infinity edge -> finish zeal item)

SociopathFriendApr 16, 20175 votes

New rift herald requires an inventory slot. What if you don't have one?

Then you're preventing an enemy from gaining it since you've killed it and presumably gained a substantial amount of gold and experience for your trouble. Same as popping a honeyfruit or blasting cone in the enemy jungle without actually using it or stealing the blue as an energy champion. Denying the enemy something is often just as powerful as actually benefiting from something.

Hypothetically, it would be unfortunate, but every other complaint you've given is just you not adapting to this new scenario and then complaining about how it won't work for you. "We two went to get it and the dummy who had an open slot died." ^Enemy made the right call and took down the guy who could use the buff. You didn't protect the person who could use the buff.

"I filled all my item slots so I can't take Herald." Okay, alternate scenario, you filled all your item slots and now have no room for control wards. Same principle- you're trading potential power for the certain power your items bring. Just plan on taking Herald when you have empty slots available? Clearly there's no room for strategy and timing when it comes to taking objectives.

It's a new thing- of course you have to adapt to how it works or else it'll suck for you.

The Sword SaintApr 16, 20174 votes

Give the buff to the top laner. Unless they have like 3 dorans it should really not be an issue to pick it up.

Jesus is SaviorApr 16, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Saint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-04-16T02:29:40.527+0000)

Give the buff to the top laner. Unless they have like 3 dorans it should really not be an issue to pick it up.

Herald dies and all of a sudden a lee sin pops over the wall and kills your top laner.

You have no inventory slots.

Lee Sin just denied the buff by killing your only player with a slot open.

The Sword SaintApr 16, 20175 votes

Then don't be a moron and fill up all your own slots if you're that paranoid about it and you also plan to be the one taking it.

Jesus is SaviorApr 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Saint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2017-04-16T04:12:41.195+0000)

Then don't be a moron and fill up all your own slots if you're that paranoid about it and you also plan to be the one taking it.

And then I die in a gank because I backed without spending my gold, and was too weak.

A+ advice.

The Sword SaintApr 16, 20176 votes

Sounds like you have shit build management in this theoretical example. Maybe don't choose some theoretical garbage 5 component item build or plan to finish something before you go to get herald in your scenario.

Or you know, let a laner take it.

Your argument is the same as 'I don't want to buy wards they get in the way of my itemz'

dim2aApr 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dat Master Yi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AFAhTFnY,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2017-04-16T03:05:53.100+0000)

Herald dies and all of a sudden a lee sin pops over the wall and kills your top laner.

You have no inventory slots.

Lee Sin just denied the buff by killing your only player with a slot open.

There is an easy solution for this: Ban Lee Sin!