Hey Riot, can Raptor's Smite Buff not spoil on Blue Wards?

Jasiwel·Dec 24, 2015·129 votes·3,188 views

I find it really awkward and kind of pointless for the Raptor's smite buff to begin the pink ward effect when in proximity to a visible blue ward. It really doesn't make a lot of sense and it feels like it's almost an oversight. Thoughts?

EDIT: Apparently this happens to visible pink wards too, so could we please just make visible wards in general not start the Raptor Buff's Oracle Elixir effect?

CLARIFICATION: I'm mostly talking about wards that are blatantly visible and in no way are hidden in brush or deep within the Fog of War (Dragon's Pit/Baron's Lair).

25 Comments

DecritDec 24, 201511 votes

As far as i know it is an intended effect because it alerts you of nearby wards, and then procs the stealth detection. In short, alerting the jungler of enemy vision is one of the first and intended effects.

Then again it does not mean it should not be touched when re-thinking about it, but it is something to consider.

JasiwelDec 24, 20155 votes

Like I said, visible wards that are not hidden are the main issue here. If the wards are in brush, then it makes more sense.

DecritDec 24, 20153 votes

That is the point. Many times that buff allowed me to spot pinks i would have not checked out.

However i agree that is annoying to have it wasted on blues, but i am not sure if it's a good thing differentiating them.

Tails DollDec 24, 20152 votes

How about wards that are under tower? Why proc the smite buff to them?

DecritDec 25, 20152 votes

... why not? It is annoying, but is clear and well defined by the rules given by the game: you get closer to a ward, you are alerted. No matter yoy know where the ward is already, the buff is intended to do that in any case.

Else, it should work differently in many other annoying scenarios: should it work with a ward placed in front of me by an enemy that wants to ward jump?

This is a little can of worms that can spread in many directions. Fpr that reason, i would prefer to keep it linear, simple and clear.

JasiwelDec 25, 20151 votes

I disagree. While only the first portion of the buff is to alert you of wards, it is also most effectively for the point of revealing invisible wards. If that function is undermined because of a pre-existing Blue Ward that is obviously seen and not remotely concealed in any way, then isn't the most important function being cut-off for the wrong reason?

I understand what you're saying and in a lot of cases it makes sense. For example, if someone places a Blue Ward in the corner of Dragon's crater where you have no vision without a ward or being there physically, then Raptor Buff is functioning as intended when it alerts you to a ward's presence. However, if there is a Blue Ward out in the open and you already have vision of it, then why should the second-portion of Raptor's Buff begin expiring?

You say that it's linear, simple and clear, but I do not believe that is acceptable enough in this case. Complexity is necessary in order to preserve important details. So no, I do not believe someone dropping a ward on you under your turret is cause for expiring Raptor's buff. There is no reason for the second portion of the buff to proc simply because a ward of any kind is nearby. It needs to be invisible or at the very least unseen (such as being in brush or well within the Fog of War).

I view this as an issue that needs clarification or fixing, not as a can of worms. I don't see the fear of complication in making the second-portion of Raptor's Buff only activate when there are concealed or invisible wards.

Edit: Once again, at least have the dignity to respond if you downvote, dear Internet Lurkers!!

DecritDec 25, 20151 votes

Which is another honest and viable point of view, i am more for the "deal with it" line.

But then let me ask you a thing: where it can bring your vision on this?

You make so the buff is harder to waste, then the devs ask themselves "is it fine if an enemy places a ward in front of you and you proc it?" Or "If the enemy places a pink and you can' t reach it immediately should you expire the buff?" or "what happens when you have reduced vision of something? do you proc the buff aniway?".

Then this can lead to other considerations: "what is this buff about?" "should it be toggleable?" "what about other buffs of the same kind?" and so on and so on.

And i am curious where that line can bring us, either very far or very short. And to me is not worth taking aniway.

By the way, happy Xmas!

JasiwelDec 25, 20151 votes

Merry Xmas!

I too believe all the questions you ask are extremely important. That's one reason why I brought up this thread - to create dialogue and look into why the Raptor Buff currently behaves as it does. We probably won't see a Red response until Monday, if at all, but I do feel like there are better ways to help the buff for junglers.

Thankfully for us, Riot either will or has had a long discussion on the behaviors of this buff and I'm really hoping to see some insight on whether or not there is a way to at least prevent it from activating on just any visible ward. That said, the change wouldn't have to happen immediately or "RIGHT NAO", but rather after Riot has had a long discussion about (if they haven't already) the change and deems it plausible.

I think it could be cool if there was like a checking system of some kind where "discovered" wards could be implemented. For example, if I walk up to Raptors and some enemy uses a Blue Trinket on me from Midlane, the game would recognize that I've already "discovered" that ward and therefore there would be no need to for the Raptor Buff to start expiring upon being in range.

One of the bigger issues I see is that there are many times where wards are already known about before the Raptor Buff's effects, vulnerable, and one click away from demolition - but the Raptor Buff expires anyways simply because I walked into range of the ward trying to destroy it as a melee champion. I was already aware of that ward before that point, but I can't simply walk over to destroy it without spoiling Raptor's Buff because I have to be in range to destroy it. It just feels clunky and could use improvement.

Tails DollDec 25, 20151 votes

I understand your point, but I honestly believe it's lazy desing to proc it on wards you have vision of. Why should it proc from a ward you already have vision from, say a pink or tower? What are you, as a jungler, getting from it? Shouldnt the buff be used to alert you, as a jungler, of enemy vision? So you know when you can invade/are at risk of being invaded?

I believe it should only proc of wards you have no vision of, that way it wont proc from pinked wards/blue wards/wards undertower, making it less risky to waste your smite buff.

Sure, you could argue it gives counter play, but lets be honest here, few people will think "I'm gonna waste a ward here just so the enemy jungler wastes his buff". If you're warding, you are getting vision, you never ward to proc that buff.

Tails DollDec 25, 20151 votes

I believe it should only proc of wards you have no vision of, that way it wont proc from pinked wards/blue wards/wards undertower, making it less risky to waste your smite buff.

Señor KarthusDec 24, 20151 votes

Sometimes you miss bushes with visible wards in them.

RikariDec 24, 20151 votes

The buff isn't to help you clear invisible wards. The buff is simply to detect nearby wards. Clearing them is a bonus riot decided to add,like Darius' ult fearing minions.

OneDeadPixelDec 24, 20152 votes

As a jungler this is one of the most annoying things I encounter during games

SerevasDec 24, 20151 votes

That would be awesome since they don't even count towards your ward count in any form.

Raka Flaka MDDec 24, 20151 votes

It does it on pink wards too. Makes me sad when i think i found a ward and its one i would of found anyway.

JasiwelDec 24, 20151 votes

Really? Yeah I feel like that has to be an oversight, especially if it's already visible. I can understand if it's concealed in brush, to an extent, but out in the open? It really should be changed, especially given Raptor Buff can be the shortest buff in the jungle.

Edit: If you're going to downvote me, at least have the dignity to explain why!

Ashe JungleDec 24, 20151 votes

Raptor buff is intended to be used mostly during laning, to let you know if you've been spotted when you're going in for a gank. If it didn't trigger on visible wards, it wouldn't be fulfilling its purpose.

That being said, many people including myself use it to clear wards, so it's annoying when it goes off on a blue or pink.

Not sure how I feel about this one overall. I almost feel like they should NOT make raptor buff give you true sight when you're spotted by a ward, and instead they should simply make it alert you if there is a ward nearby or not, but wards would not cause it to expire (only time).

2yordles1cupcakeDec 24, 20151 votes

"Na, coding is too hard for us, YO!" -Riot.

VicvictorwDec 24, 20151 votes

Always fun when you clear the raptor camp only to have it immediately proc because an enemy had placed a ward directly onto the camp just to proc it.

PartholonianDec 25, 20151 votes

But now that you can't spam wards as much as last season, they actually pay something for doing that.

KoKobotoDec 25, 20151 votes

too hard to code

EeyoreDec 25, 20151 votes

Just make it grant multiple uses/charges based on gametime or level, so it doesn't feel as useless lategame when you get to the point you can't even finish the camp before it triggers on two nearby blue wards.

LeonLyeDec 25, 20151 votes

[deleted]

JasiwelDec 25, 20151 votes

I mean wards that are already within vision. I could easily accept the pink buff activating because there is a ward being concealed in brush. It's just problematic when the ward is already expose/visible and the pink buff activating purely because you're a melee champion that has to be on top of it to clear.

SukishooDec 25, 20151 votes

This happens to alert you for nearby wards, that's what the buff was intended to do in the first place. It's not really there for you to disable/destroy, it's more so to alert you when there is vision in the area so that you can plan your movements.