Few things need to change in order to allow Solo-carry again in SoloQ

Wukong Airlines·Apr 28, 2018·21 votes·9,917 views

First of all, this is my personal opinion, I'm no balance expert but I still need to express my opinion.

Problem:-

The major problem is damage. It does not matter if you snowball or not, the damage will be there because of the New Rune system mainly, and gold gain. If you snowball, you'll have a higher chance to over-kill the enemy, but if you farm safely for 15-20 min, you guarantee a good damage outcome and probably 1shot potential by mid-game.

Solution:-

Reduce the base damage in general from the Rune system and increase the scaling. {{ Example: Predator deals 60-180 base damage + 0.4AD + 0.25AP Reduce to 40-110or120 + 0.5AD +0.3AP }}

This would reward soloplay and increase damage based on ur performance and force games to be longer.

Reduce gold and EXP gain from everything except Kills/objectives {{ dragons, herald, baron }} To reward strategic game-play and smart decision making.

I would suggest all champs get a reduced base damage as well, but at this point this would be considered over-doing it. We should first experiment the first 2 options and proceed from there.

40 Comments

AptestApr 28, 20186 votes

I've said it in another thread but i will say it here also.

the ability to solo carry depends on there being an OP role in the game that you can opt in to. This also requires someone else to agree to play the UP role.

Since these people are more rare than people who want to play the OP role all the time, the consequence is that the people who want to solo-carry the most will be forced into roles where this is highly unlikely, for the chance opportunity to play in the roles where it is a reasonable expectation.

not necessarily a bad turn of events, but... just sayin don't come complainin about autofill later.

SpongebobIsLifeApr 28, 20183 votes

i disagree, as someone who has played since s3, up until sometime in mid-late s6, each role had about the same amount of carry potential. Mid and jg had slightly a bit more then the others but it's never been like this.

AptestApr 28, 20183 votes

If a large number of mains from the same role report on being able to solo carry, that is a solid indication that the role is by design OP. Assuming we consider their report to be valid.

Justification: Being able to solo carry means being much more influential than the other players. If being much more influential than the other players is a reasonable expectation, than it means there is reasonable consistency in managing to reach that position of influence. That means the "roll of the dice" for the guy who gets fed does not influence the win conditions in an unbiased manner, but rather that some positions gain more from "winning their lanes". Leading us to conclude that those positions were OP.

Hong Kong AnnieApr 28, 20183 votes

But every position used to be able to solo carry. If a good player got a sizeable lead they became almost unstoppable, this made a much more dynamic game where if your top was falling behind the mid and jungle would go camp top to equalize the lead (plus getting that sick shutdown reward) to stop the snowball before it got out of control. Right now it almost doesn't matter how far ahead one person is, it all comes down to which team has the worst player whether that's the support getting caught facechecking or an ADC that can't position.

AptestApr 28, 20182 votes

IMHO it is hard to accept your argument, because the scenario that you are describing as the good then, is equivalent to the scenario that you are describing as the bad now.

i.e. both descriptions are symptoms of the same underlying phenomenon. And therefore the two situations can not be seen as different.

I think you are not identifying the symptoms of what you feel is problematic in an accurate enough way. There is some error in your description because "one person getting fed enormously and becomes unstoppable" and "one player plays badly and feeds horribly" are two sides and two results of the same "one person loses, another wins" situation.

Hong Kong AnnieApr 28, 20181 votes

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough but I meant the one player losses the game as more of a late game problem. How it is now getting ahead in lane is almost meaningless. If a mid laner or a jungle are 5/0 it doesn't matter how well they play the game, it all comes down to a late game fight where whoever has the worst player losses. That might be a tank top that can't peel, a mage that can't land skill shots, or an ADC that can't kite. Even if the fed player takes 2 down in the fight it still comes down to which team has the better ADC player and people to peel for him.

Olga RajeckaApr 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

IMHO it is hard to accept your argument, because the scenario that you are describing as the good then, is equivalent to the scenario that you are describing as the bad now.

i.e. both descriptions are symptoms of the same underlying phenomenon. And therefore the two situations can not be seen as different.

I think you are not identifying the symptoms of what you feel is problematic in an accurate enough way. There is some error in your description because "one person getting fed enormously and becomes unstoppable" and "one player plays badly and feeds horribly" are two sides and two results of the same "one person loses, another wins" situation.

What he's saying is:

In S3-S4 the player with a significant gold lead over the opposing player was capable of taking the game in his own hands. Therefore that player would have to be shut down because if he wasn't, he solo carried the game.

Now, in S8, to actually carry, you need to be ridiculously fed. Even then, you need to play around your team because you aren't capable of legit 1v5. Good S3 Talons could almost 1v5 when they got ahead. Now they maybe can burst an adc since lockets 'n shit.

Everything ramps up so quickly now, that actual 1v5 carrying isn't there. You roamed bot and shut down Trist? Oh well, 10 minutes later she has 3 items and you're f*cked. Fighting against tanks is even worse to everyone that isn't Cnqr abuser or adc.

In conclusion - everyone is bursting everyone. Who cares if you have 2 items and deal 2k damage in 2 seconds or 3 items and deal 3k damage in 1 second. The target is still dead.

saltranApr 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

i disagree, as someone who has played since s3, up until sometime in mid-late s6, each role had about the same amount of carry potential. Mid and jg had slightly a bit more then the others but it's never been like this.

Each role had the same carry potential in season 3? Oh boy the nostalgia is strong in you.

SpongebobIsLifeApr 29, 20182 votes

i said about the same. It was never as heavily skewed as it is now unless something was extremely broken (devourer).

PB4UAMEApr 29, 20181 votes

He's right so long as support is subtracted. Jungle, Mid, Top and Bot all could carry easily seasons 2-3 and into season 4.

DragfinApr 28, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cloud Walker,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-28T14:55:17.825+0000)

First of all, this is my personal opinion, I'm no balance expert but I still need to express my opinion.

Problem:-

The major problem is damage. It does not matter if you snowball or not, the damage will be there because of the New Rune system mainly, and gold gain. If you snowball, you'll have a higher chance to over-kill the enemy, but if you farm safely for 15-20 min, you guarantee a good damage outcome and probably 1shot potential by mid-game.

Solution:-

Reduce the base damage in general from the Rune system and increase the scaling. {{ Example: Predator deals 60-180 base damage + 0.4AD + 0.25AP Reduce to 40-110or120 + 0.5AD +0.3AP }}

This would reward soloplay and increase damage based on ur performance and force games to be longer.

Reduce gold and EXP gain from everything except Kills/objectives {{ dragons, herald, baron }} To reward strategic game-play and smart decision making.

I would suggest all champs get a reduced base damage as well, but at this point this would be considered over-doing it. We should first experiment the first 2 options and proceed from there.

Nothing, it's a team game. Take your GOD complex and your whining somewhere else. Thanks.

Sincerely,

Those without a GOD complex and understand WTF teamwork is.

Big LincolnApr 28, 201823 votes

playing around a snowballing player is part of teamwork, Mr 200 iq

TS MediaApr 28, 20188 votes

Someone's new to league.

MarothennanApr 28, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Nothing, it's a team game. Take your GOD complex and your whining somewhere else. Thanks.

Sincerely,

Those without a GOD complex and understand WTF teamwork is.

Teamwork in Solo Q LUL.

DragfinApr 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Teamwork in Solo Q LUL.

The problems originate from that solo player who does his own thing, thinks he's GOD and makes more mistakes then everyone and then blames everyone else but themselves. That has been said a million times and you still have players like this who don't understand that and bitch and moan without looking in the mirror. Learn to lead your team and stop blaming them. It's really that simple. I could give two shits about how good a person is at this game but when they refuse to look at themselves and blame others like most are doing in this thread then I have no use for them and more than likely they are the cause of many losses.

Who Fed RuApr 28, 20188 votes

Teamworking won't work if one player drags down the whole team while you aren't able to do anything as a single player. And there is nothing worse than games being decided by the worst player, as it often is. There really isn't any motivation in playing SoloQ if your main goal is to not be the worst player yourself, instead of focusing on being able to carry the team to victory.

So take your whining somewhere else.

Sincerely,

the people who are sick and tired of the majority of games being decided completely out of their control.

only zhuleApr 28, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2018-04-28T19:29:42.636+0000)

Teamworking won't work if one player drags down the whole team while you aren't able to do anything as a single player. And there is nothing worse than games being decided by the worst player, as it often is. There really isn't any motivation in playing SoloQ if your main goal is to not be the worst player yourself, instead of focusing on being able to carry the team to victory.

So take your whining somewhere else.

Sincerely,

the people who are sick and tired of the majority of games being decided completely out of their control.

If you want to play a game where you have absolute control, then play a single player game.

Your arguement falls apart as soon as you look at it from the person NOT carrying the game. Where is the fun playing against the person who can 1v3 and win most of the time? What control do you have against the person who is 2 levels and at least one full item ahead of you, with a competent team? Where is the fun playing against someone who is living their power fantasy at your expense?

Who Fed RuApr 28, 20186 votes

I never said I wanted absolute control. That is impossible in a game like this anyway.

Yup, getting 1v3ed isn't fun. But even when you play against a fed opponent, there usually is something you could have played better in such situations. There comes the teamplay. But. if you actually managed to get fed enough to be able to 1v3, you should be able to play out that advantage because that means you did something right in the first parts of the game. The enemies should be able to deny your lead by outplaying, baiting and kiting the feed enemy (depends on the champion) instead of just spamming damage reduction shit and counterbuilding the fed enemy. There needs to be a middle ground, but it can't stay like this where good solo play gets rewarded this rarely.

Now here is my question: Where is the fun in having close to zero impact on the outcome of the game if you play well? Having the ability to live your power fantasy, as you call it, might be at the expense of the enemies, but it also could be you that is having fun. Some games you could get destroyed by a single enemy, or you could be destroying your enemies. But to get destroyed by a single enemy, you usually have to admit that it was cause he played better than anyone else and deserved that win.

I would rather have the game balanced like it was around Season 3/4 again. Being on the losing team of a carrying enemy might suck, but at least it's thousand times better than just focusing to play above avearge and not being the worst guy yourself. How is it fun if game after game gets decided without you having much to say in it even if you play well? And then you have to watch that one guy who is either tilted or simply doesn't belong in the elo ruin the game solo handily while you are powerless about it. That guy who never uses any openings you give him and doesn't make any for his team.

So if you look at it, both have it's own downsides, but I see no upsides in having the worst player decide the outcome of the game. But for me, I would rather play a game where the best player has the most impact again rather than the worst because of obvious reasons.

only zhuleApr 28, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=0000000300000000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:20:18.400+0000)

I never said I wanted absolute control. That is impossible in a game like this anyway.

Yup, getting 1v3ed isn't fun. But even when you play against a fed opponent, there usually is something you could have played better in such situations. There comes the teamplay. But. if you actually managed to get fed enough to be able to 1v3, you should be able to play out that advantage because that means you did something right in the first parts of the game. The enemies should be able to deny your lead by outplaying, baiting and kiting the feed enemy (depends on the champion) instead of just spamming damage reduction shit and counterbuilding the fed enemy. There needs to be a middle ground, but it can't stay like this where good solo play gets rewarded this rarely.

Now here is my question: Where is the fun in having close to zero impact on the outcome of the game if you play well? Having the ability to live your power fantasy, as you call it, might be at the expense of the enemies, but it also could be you that is having fun. Some games you could get destroyed by a single enemy, or you could be destroying your enemies. But to get destroyed by a single enemy, you usually have to admit that it was cause he played better than anyone else and deserved that win.

I would rather have the game balanced like it was around Season 3/4 again. Being on the losing team of a carrying enemy might suck, but at least it's thousand times better than just focusing to play above avearge and not being the worst guy yourself. How is it fun if game after game gets decided without you having much to say in it even if you play well? And then you have to watch that one guy who is either tilted or simply doesn't belong in the elo ruin the game solo handily while you are powerless about it. That guy who never uses any openings you give him and doesn't make any for his team.

So if you look at it, both have it's own downsides, but I see no upsides in having the worst player decide the outcome of the game. But for me, I would rather play a game where the best player has the most impact again rather than the worst because of obvious reasons.

I’d much rather have the games where no player had a huge impact on the game. The winners are decided by little advantages piling up or someone getting a little sloppy in the late late game.

I HATE the 1v3 idea. Because it often isn’t anything I could have effected to prevent that player from getting that strong. I cant leave my lane and help the effected one if doing so means I auto loss the lane and their is no promise we actually shut down the fed person.

I hate the snowball idea that is “carrying a team” since it often ends up being simply get a little ahead then don’t blow it. Minor lead eventual compounds into big and bigger lead simply because you didn’t throw. It’s stupid that there can come a point where even killing the “carrier” isn’t enough because you had to invest to much into that, and now you lose the team fight.

Snowman ArcApr 29, 20183 votes

Recently, I played on my smurf vs a Katarina, who was also hard smurfing. In silver elo, I'm plat and she was probably Diamond+ Kata main, while I was playing Ekko for the second time. That Kata managed to end with a 37/2/2 KDA at 20 minutes. That Kata solo carried that game and was able to pretty much 1v5 our team. She deserved to do that, because she did well early (managed to kill me once in lane and then destroy bot lane with roams). Sure, bot lane was typical bronze lane that died constantly, but she did do those roams, and she was really strong. She is rewarded by being able to win.

Why shouldn't she be rewarded for her exceptional play? If she can't 1v2 or 1v3 even after outplaying pretty much everyone, then what's the point of trying? She took a small lead from a solo kill, which then transferred to bot lane and then it kept building up. Nothing wrong with it. If I was more careful and didn't die, she wouldn't snowball as hard either. The thing is, she played well, and managed to destroy the map, as she should.

only zhuleApr 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=000000030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-29T10:06:34.822+0000)

Recently, I played on my smurf vs a Katarina, who was also hard smurfing. In silver elo, I'm plat and she was probably Diamond+ Kata main, while I was playing Ekko for the second time. That Kata managed to end with a 37/2/2 KDA at 20 minutes. That Kata solo carried that game and was able to pretty much 1v5 our team. She deserved to do that, because she did well early (managed to kill me once in lane and then destroy bot lane with roams). Sure, bot lane was typical bronze lane that died constantly, but she did do those roams, and she was really strong. She is rewarded by being able to win.

Why shouldn't she be rewarded for her exceptional play? If she can't 1v2 or 1v3 even after outplaying pretty much everyone, then what's the point of trying? She took a small lead from a solo kill, which then transferred to bot lane and then it kept building up. Nothing wrong with it. If I was more careful and didn't die, she wouldn't snowball as hard either. The thing is, she played well, and managed to destroy the map, as she should.

How "lucky" there is no way to look up this game to see if you are lying through your teeth.

Is the champion getting their 1v2 or 1v3 wins via outplaying the people in the moment OR is the champion getting those kills because they outplayed them previously? Just because you won five 1v1's doesn't mean you should dominate the next 1v3. If you can out play your opponents you deserve to beat them, hell i'm even willing to accept a 1v5 in some super niche situations. That said, if the enemy team can catch you by surprise it shouldn't matter what your K/D/A is you should still lose that fight hands down.

My issue with carrying is pretty simple. I hate the idea that one players actions can decide a game, completely negating the other 9 players actions. The idea one character has gotten so far ahead that there is no way to stop them, and that short of the enemy team literally handing the game to their opponents (forfeiting/ 4 players sitting in fountain for the next 10 mins/ etc...), it doesn't matter what 9 out of the 10 players do for the rest of the game.

Snowman ArcApr 29, 20182 votes

The guy outplayed me in mid lane, and then roamed bot and picked kills. I don't understand why it seems weird to you. http://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=giorgos21cy Check my Ekko game. Watch Kata's kill participation and then watch her team's. She managed to stomp the low level bot lane (level 8 vs level 5 at some point). Also, you need to realize this is silver. A smurf Kata will definitely stomp there. I have done it, every smurf has. I don't know why it seems so weird to you.

only zhuleApr 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=00000003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-29T19:37:39.559+0000)

The guy outplayed me in mid lane, and then roamed bot and picked kills. I don't understand why it seems weird to you. http://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=giorgos21cy Check my Ekko game. Watch Kata's kill participation and then watch her team's. She managed to stomp the low level bot lane (level 8 vs level 5 at some point). Also, you need to realize this is silver. A smurf Kata will definitely stomp there. I have done it, every smurf has. I don't know why it seems so weird to you.

Wow, i honestly didn't think it possible to get that many kills in such a short time. Fuck skill levels just factoring in death timers and travel time "back to lane" figure a team couldn't die that often in such a short time.

And yes clearly the Kat deserved to win that game and of course the team win was HEAVILY due to her being there. Those things said, i still hold to the belief that if she got super sloppy she should still be kill able by the enemy team.

This example is also a poor one was the argument. I don't think people are debating if a team should have won if one player was 3 (or more) levels ahead of highest level player on the enemy team and/or if one player is 2 (or more) full built items ahead of the enemy player with the highest gold generated. Clearly the champion who is 25+ kills ahead, and has basically zero deaths, of the next highest player is going to steamroll a game. Hell i'd bet that a Soraka could carry against the enemy team if she was that far ahead.

DragfinApr 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2018-04-28T19:29:42.636+0000)

Teamworking won't work if one player drags down the whole team while you aren't able to do anything as a single player. And there is nothing worse than games being decided by the worst player, as it often is. There really isn't any motivation in playing SoloQ if your main goal is to not be the worst player yourself, instead of focusing on being able to carry the team to victory.

So take your whining somewhere else.

Sincerely,

the people who are sick and tired of the majority of games being decided completely out of their control.

I'm not the one whining.

Snowman ArcApr 29, 20184 votes

Typical mentality of "I depend on my team to carry me". Not saying that you shouldn't be able to communicate and work with the team in some areas, but how the fuck am I gonna pull out these deep strategies, when I don't even know who I am playing with and what they are thinking. If I could somehow mindcontrol my team into doing my plays, assuming they are correct, then fine, but since I have 0 agency over how they think or if they act on it, I'd say that the team play impact should be lesser, in favor of solo impact, where at least there I know if I do something correct, I will be rewarded, without having to care about my monkey team as much.

DragfinApr 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2018-04-29T09:59:30.551+0000)

Typical mentality of "I depend on my team to carry me". Not saying that you shouldn't be able to communicate and work with the team in some areas, but how the fuck am I gonna pull out these deep strategies, when I don't even know who I am playing with and what they are thinking. If I could somehow mindcontrol my team into doing my plays, assuming they are correct, then fine, but since I have 0 agency over how they think or if they act on it, I'd say that the team play impact should be lesser, in favor of solo impact, where at least there I know if I do something correct, I will be rewarded, without having to care about my monkey team as much.

It's having the skill that most gamers today take for granted called leadership. I understand what you are saying but if everyone in the game had the same mindset as you did then it wouldn't be so hard to play as a team. That is what the game is all about, teamwork. If a player wants to go off and do their own thing which so many do then the game will most likely be lost. I am sorry but I disagree that RIOT should make it easier to carry solo. Everyone needs to play with the team in mind and get rid of their GOD complexes and you win games.

Snowman ArcApr 30, 20182 votes

Dude, how am I supposed to lead a team, when they don't even know who I am or if I'm good enough to lead? Basically, why would I listen to what some random guy on the internet has to say, when I have no clue who they are or if they are smart enough to listen to or lead?

If I was able to only play flex Q with 4 more of my friends, then sure, go full teamwork as much as you'd like. I know my friends, they know me, so we assign someone to shotcall and lead and that's fine. Doing this in soloQ is practically impossible. Unless you somehow get 10 kills in the first 5 minutes, people won't listen to anything. Even if you tell them you are a challenger smurf and have 110 cs at 10 minutes and 5 kills, they will probably still find a reason to flame you.

DragfinApr 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=0000000400000000,timestamp=2018-04-30T14:20:00.879+0000)

Dude, how am I supposed to lead a team, when they don't even know who I am or if I'm good enough to lead? Basically, why would I listen to what some random guy on the internet has to say, when I have no clue who they are or if they are smart enough to listen to or lead?

If I was able to only play flex Q with 4 more of my friends, then sure, go full teamwork as much as you'd like. I know my friends, they know me, so we assign someone to shotcall and lead and that's fine. Doing this in soloQ is practically impossible. Unless you somehow get 10 kills in the first 5 minutes, people won't listen to anything. Even if you tell them you are a challenger smurf and have 110 cs at 10 minutes and 5 kills, they will probably still find a reason to flame you.

Not saying that it works all the time because that would be impossible but go into the game thinking that everyone has the same goals which is to win and work from there. Some people are just bad at the game and you can't do anything about it but move on to the next game.

Snowman ArcApr 30, 20182 votes

Then why have the game be so heavily reliant on something that is completely outside of your control?

DragfinApr 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=000000040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-30T14:57:11.295+0000)

Then why have the game be so heavily reliant on something that is completely outside of your control?

Well I am fine with it. Hopefully it will help make the solo que players more apt to pay attention to what they are doing. I know that's alot to ask for but I guess we will see.

GripaAviaraApr 29, 20182 votes

SOLO CARRY in a team game should not exist

When this happens, the game went to drain for good

Snowman ArcApr 29, 20182 votes

5 seasons of being the average silver. Bad winrates, bad KDAs, bad cs/minute. You probably can't solo carry your team, which is why you don't care if it exists or not. You'd rather depend on your overall team to carry you, because you know you can't do it on your own, so you'd rather see it go away, rather than trying to do it.

Also, when people say solo carry, they don't mean 1v9. They mean that if they constantly play well in one game and they get advantage after advantage, it should pile up and pose some threat. As it stands right now, if I'm Jax and fed, it won't matter much because the enemy ADC + Support will cockblock me and kill me, and there's no team to support me in taking them down. I must attempt to 1v2 because team is monkeys.

GripaAviaraApr 29, 20181 votes

Sorry I'm not striving to be a pro

Snowman ArcApr 29, 20181 votes

I'm not striving to be a pro as well, but I'm not striving to be trash either.

GripaAviaraApr 30, 20181 votes

TIL silver is trash, so 70% of this game is made of trashes. Entitled players on this boards

T4underboltApr 29, 20181 votes

Game was more competitive in the past when you could solo carry and it was gaining more players untill they started screwing it up. Every veteran player leaves because he has no influence on the game.

GripaAviaraApr 30, 20181 votes

No really, everybody was complaining and still is by juggernauts the like of Tryndamere where you would deal ok in your lane just to be demolished because top fed

At least ADCs, the broke champs of today, can get assassinated.

So it's a slight improvement.

They need to address matchmaking so that it creates actuall balanced teams. And I see they will do that next season

T4underboltApr 30, 20181 votes

ADC don't get assassinated because enchanter supps exist.

densiApr 29, 20182 votes

they buffed so much with the new runes but didn't really compensate for the armor/mr we lost because of the changes

GigglesOApr 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cloud Walker,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEgP2FpL,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-28T14:55:17.825+0000)

Reduce gold and EXP gain from everything except Kills/objectives {{ dragons, herald, baron }}

I actually think that Champion kills are what need the gold reduced on. I think minions and jungle camps take so long that they are fine. First tower gold should probably go too.