Boards›Gameplay

In the name of counterplay

Shadow Gilgamesh··6 votes·805 views

Can we give Katarina a casting time on her ult? I'm not asking for something insane like the 1.25 delay on Veigar's cage when the change first hit, just like .25 seconds, allowing for some kind of reaction.

Everyone always says "CC is Kats weakness" but so many CC moves either require you to be in melee range, casting time, or missile travel time, whereas Kat has a point and click instant gap closer with damage reduction to pad her instant ult that shreds anyone who isn't a tank (how often do you see a carry live through even a second of the ult?) Even if I'm within range of Taric's stun, or Renekton's dash to W stun her, she's already jumped, popped ult and taken at least 60% of my carries HP before the stun connects, and that's when the Katarina is brainless.

It seems like whenever you're doing what's "right" to counter an explosive champ like Kat that it should really feel like it. This isn't exactly a foreign idea either, we want Annie's AOE nuke ult to have a casting time, and we want LB to have a period of weakness when she uses W

8 Comments

BluePolarizer3 votes

did you know that Cassiopeia, Fiddlesticks and Karthus deal more damage in 5 seconds than kat? that a Cassiopeia hitting you is like facetanking a nonstop kat ult?

Repo1 votes

If annie's ult gets a casting time she will be useless as will kat, both of their points is to do stuff like that. may as well take them out bro. which, I honestly would be okay with.

SirPacifista1 votes

Why does that make them useless? Veigar did get a delay on his only CC (in the means of ocunterplay blabla) so it would be ok or? Or at least make her shunpo delayed or a dash instead of a blink.

67chrome1 votes

Can we give Katarina a casting time on her ult?

As cool as that is: I'm not sure Kat's ult really lacks in the counter-play department or needs more.

It's not ranged like the vast majority of AoE AP scaling ultimates. Also doesn't deliver all it's damage in an instant like the vast majority of skills in the game. It forces Kat to be immobile rather than moving with her, and doesn't allow her to Zhonya's halfway through like the ults of Kennen Morgana Swain Fiddlesticks.

With it's current (rather fast) application time - there's still a solid amount of things you can do against it: reflexive and tactical alike. Considering it's numerous downsides - I'd call her ult pretty fair.

Also: Katarina's kit, her gameplay, her aesthetic - is all centered around her ultimate. Her QWE are significantly weakened to force that so Kat must concentrate on her ult rather than defaulting to skills that are better mechanically with better QoL and less counter-measures for her opponents. Nerffing Kat's ult enough to feel it means a lot more vs. Kat than it does most champions.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

{quoted}

As cool as that is: I'm not sure Kat's ult really lacks in the counter-play department or needs more.

It's not ranged like the vast majority of AoE AP scaling ultimates. Also doesn't deliver all it's damage in an instant like the vast majority of skills in the game. It forces Kat to be immobile rather than moving with her, and doesn't allow her to Zhonya's halfway through like the ults of Kennen Morgana Swain Fiddlesticks.

With it's current (rather fast) application time - there's still a solid amount of things you can do against it: reflexive and tactical alike. Considering it's numerous downsides - I'd call her ult pretty fair.

Also: Katarina's kit, her gameplay, her aesthetic - is all centered around her ultimate. Her QWE are significantly weakened to force that so Kat must concentrate on her ult rather than defaulting to skills that are better mechanically with better QoL and less counter-measures for her opponents. Nerffing Kat's ult enough to feel it means a lot more vs. Kat than it does most champions.

Being melee hardly matters when you build Ludens and have higher natural move speed, have a move speed boost on a low cool down, and a gap closer on a fairly low cool down that boosts your defense (even though being squishy is meant to be an assassin's weakness) and all of which resetting off assists/kills. It's not like she's Garen where she has to walk all the way up to you naturally and then push R, she just mashes her basic abilities and pushes R and kills you in under 1 second if you aren't a tank. Unless you're another assassin she is going to kill you the moment she is in range to jump onto you. Unlike with someone like Zed, grouping isn't much of an option as she enjoys team fights and skirmishes in addition to basically automatically winning 1v1 if she has the stats to kill you. This is why her win rate is always over 50% even when CC heavy champions are picked.

qetzel1 votes

I thought it already had the standard cast time of 0.25 seconds... How strange.

Loken Stoneheart1 votes

Any time you add a delay to an ability, it just makes mobile champions more powerful. They're typically the only ones who can jump out of the ability.

So, as "fair" as it seems to do this, its just going to further mobility-creep in the game.

Nameless Voice1 votes

The bigger problem with Kat is that her other skills are instant damage, which then give her resets. Kat is mostly a problem when she's got fed enough to not need her ult to kill enemies. Putting a delay on her ultimate won't change that.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Shadow Gilgamesh

Good christ Lucian is just the Zed of bot lane isn't he?
Gameplay155 comments
177
votes
So what's the point of the PBE if feedback is ignored?
Gameplay127 comments
152
votes
Against Swain mid, we had Cait, Yasuo, and Lee Sin, guess who got mortal reminder?
Gameplay88 comments
127
votes
Early Jungling made EVEN HARDER?
Gameplay159 comments
120
votes
New Sej nerfs seem a bit... much.
Gameplay133 comments
102
votes
Now I see what people mean with Soraka's E not having quick enough silence ticks
Gameplay65 comments
96
votes