Why is Jarvan's primary tag Tank instead of Fighter?

Kingsgrave·Feb 10, 2015·19 votes·2,552 views

How is a guy with high base AD damage and 26% armor shred on a low CD a Tank?

Tank/Fighter?

250 + 240 + 450

Tank/Fighter is someone like not

Other junglers that fit the same role as Jarvan that have the same qualities and damage potential that he has: Fighter/Assassin 300 + 10% Maximum Health + 130 (2 charges) + 450 Fighter/Assassin 225(+60% Total AD) + 210 + 275(+15% Enemy Current Health) Fighter/Tank 150(+110% Total AD) + 240 + 800(+440% Total AD) Assassin/Fighter 240 + 250 + 350 Fighter/Tank 200% Total AD (technically) + 400 (average of min and max) + 220 + 425

His damage is on par with all these other junglers that fill his same role, why is he classified as a Tank?

Lets look at a real Tank

Tank/Fighter 300 + 55(+10% Total Armor) return per attack + 195 per second for 8 seconds

is not Tank/Fighter, I don't think he qualifies as Fighter/Tank if don't

29 Comments

LongFur FoxFeb 10, 20159 votes

Tags are very old. They do not really get updated as the game progresses so most champions have the same tags they had when they were first given those tags.

blujadajhdjaFeb 10, 20155 votes

At this point, anyone who's lvl 30 will stop looking at the tags because they know how inaccurate they can be. Riot has some work to do about this in general.

BlastermineFeb 11, 20155 votes

JarvanIV should be listed as a Tank/Assassin. He has great initiation and utility, as well as 100-0 potential if you build lots of damage. He's no good as a fighter because he straight up looses to practically every champion said to be good at dueling.

BeatzBoyFTWFeb 11, 20154 votes

Cause Crowd-Control exists, not just tank stats.

YOU BEEN WARNEDFeb 11, 20153 votes

Sion bases are higher, he has a 20% shred and he's classified as a fighter, not a tank.

300 +(140+(14%hp)) + 210 + 900

I don't understand because high base damages /should/ be a tank thing.

High scaling on the other hand.

ForgiveColourFeb 10, 20152 votes

i think it should be assassin doesnt even need to lane eq, just eq and then r onto the abc then auto + hydra and you just 100-0 their abc

killd0zerFeb 10, 20152 votes

I would argue armor shred is more of a tank ability, compared to armor pen which is more selfish.

KingsgraveFeb 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I would argue armor shred is more of a tank ability, compared to armor pen which is more selfish.

Jarvan and Vi both have Armor Shred in a very selfish manner. Same with Xin Zhao.

Sion, Nasus and Rammus have it in a tanking manner, even though it feels tacked on for all 3 honestly.

DurzakaFeb 10, 20152 votes

Because Riot's tags mean absolutely nothing.

KingsgraveFeb 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because Riot's tags mean absolutely nothing.

I honestly think its more or less what Riot intends for them to be or do in fights or in a game.

Adolf GhostlerFeb 10, 20152 votes

Why can Jarvan nuke you while not having an offensive item?

KingsgraveFeb 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Adolf Ghostler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAHHEEii,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-02-10T18:17:02.424+0000)

Why can Jarvan nuke you while not having an offensive item?

He usually buys Warrior and then builds full Tank possibly with just Ravenous Hydra or Trinity as his 2nd damage item

Rek/Vi/Xin/Lee/Noc also do this so I don't really think Jarvan is that crazy or different

Silents429Feb 10, 20151 votes

I didn't know a max rank ult that does 450 damage was a "nuke"

KingsgraveFeb 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I didn't know a max rank ult that does 450 damage was a "nuke"

He reduces your armor by 26% and has a combined 270% Bonus AD ratio for his combo

nukerino

Silents429Feb 11, 20151 votes

Then. Get out of the way?

His E and Q are one of the easiest things to escape from and avoid.

I know getting out of the way doesn't and shouldn't be an excuse for skillshots, but most of his combo and damage is avoided by just doing a simple juke, which only does massive damage late game if he has AD items, and is trading damage for tankiness.

rinsujoFeb 10, 20151 votes

Because of his passive. Last i knew it was 10% your max health on first AA.

RebonackFeb 10, 20151 votes

Because low cooldown, low duration resist shreds are Utility/Tank abilities. You Tank by being a danger to the enemy team if ignored. So long as you're around you augment your team's damage.

See: Amumu, Rammus, ect.

KingsgraveFeb 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because low cooldown, low duration resist shreds are Utility/Tank abilities. You Tank by being a danger to the enemy team if ignored. So long as you're around you augment your team's damage.

See: Amumu, Rammus, ect.

Having "tank" abilities doesn't make someone a tank

Most fighters need one or two of these types of abilities in order to function usually

XinZhao MonkeyKing all have Armor Shred and I wouldn't classify any of them as tanks because of the ways that they go about using said Shreds. Rammus and Sion use theirs in a very Tankish sort of way and both abilities don't really do physical damage so they couldn't use them offensively if they wanted to.

lojicianFeb 10, 20151 votes

Presumably because he does 0 sustained damage but he isn't really either.

SEKAIFeb 10, 20151 votes

Because people would build him full tank and still able to 3 shot a good portion of the champion roster anyway.

He really isn't a tank, he is a bruiser who specialises in initiation.

I am fine of him being a mobile bruiser, in fact I see him as a near perfect example of a good mobile bruiser (go away monk). But his damage potential with nearly no damage item is currently a little absurd which I would like to see it fixed.

Otherwise he is indeed very cool.

KingsgraveFeb 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because people would build him full tank and still able to 3 shot a good portion of the champion roster anyway.

He really isn't a tank, he is a bruiser who specialises in initiation.

I am fine of him being a mobile bruiser, in fact I see him as a near perfect example of a good mobile bruiser (go away monk). But his damage potential with nearly no damage item is currently a little absurd which I would like to see it fixed.

Otherwise he is indeed very cool.

RekSai XinZhao all do that just as well as he does, just with less team utility that he brings for no real reason other than Jarvan because Jarvan

Ser GarlandFeb 10, 20151 votes

The same reason why Sion is listed as Primary fighter and secondary tank. Imo you build Sion full tank!

Silents429Feb 10, 20151 votes

But he IS a tank, His W is great, and he has enough CC.

Nocturne isn't a tank because he is an assassin and while he gets some health late game, he doesn't have CC outside of a channeled fear.

Xin Zhao I don't know why you think he should be a tank, his entire kit and literally based around dueling people. And again, no CC.

Vi again, not that much CC, and generally more fighter oriented. I don't think she should be labeled as an assassin but her ult allows her to be one.

Jarvan IS a tank fighter. And I do think his primary role should be fighter and secondary should be tank, given how people have been playing him this season.

Done25Feb 10, 20151 votes

Because J4 is a ver old champion back from when Riot was still figuring the game out. He is very much a Fighter due to his love of auto attacks, vs Rammus or Nautilus's focus on dealing damage with their abilities.

Ex. J4 shield slows people so that he can slap them more. Nautilus shield causes an aoe dot when he hits people.

J4 uses his so he can physically hit people more Nautilus uses his so that when he hits people it triggers the ability effect.

53872273_DELFeb 11, 20151 votes

Tank/Fighter...Tank is someone who takes damage but has "CROWD CONTROL" and prevents enemies to getting to carries..ex. Cataclyasm, e+q to knock em up = J4... They can build damage but their role is useless basically unless u are ahead alot.

DestínumFeb 11, 20151 votes

Because Jarvan's biggest focus is initiation and making the enemy focus him instead of his allies by locking them inside an arena. Those two qualities are pretty much what defines someone as a tank.

LordKentravyonFeb 11, 20151 votes

He's fairly versatile he can go damage fighter and be a huge threat, or he can go full tank and survive everything whilst providing a very nice amount of lockdown. He is significantly tankier then Xin and Noc, and a bit tankier then Vi. I would actually argue he is closer to trundle then any of the 3 you compared him too. You are correct in saying he is not tanky to the state, of Rammus, Naut etc.. but he is still a lot tankier then many other fighters. The tank/fighter tags make sense he's a good inbetween,

Left Hook LarryFeb 12, 20151 votes

I wouldn't look at those Riot stats for champions. For example, if you look at Morgana's "skill rating" she has a 1, while champs like Garen with no skill shots or anything difficult have a much higher skill rating

KingsgraveFeb 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Volibear Is OP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAHHEEii,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2015-02-12T00:51:22.423+0000)

I wouldn't look at those Riot stats for champions. For example, if you look at Morgana's "skill rating" she has a 1, while champs like Garen with no skill shots or anything difficult have a much higher skill rating

Skill rating is based on the number of games on average it takes for a new player to learn the champion and have a net positive winrate according to Riot.

Morgana is rather simplistic in terms of how to succeed with her. Garen is far more limited since he is melee without any real mechanics or safety nets. Morgana lands Q, places her W, uses her E reactively and uses her R when they cant get away.