Getting a potent (scaling) on hit effect and then innately getting attack speed to compliment it, on top of Kayles frankly ridiculous safety right now, is too much (for what its worth Irelia is stupid for the same reason)
this champion is grossly overperforming and needs a heavier hit than what she's getting. There's no reason a hyper carry should get so much innate power before she even has items.
Oleandervine4 votes"Incredible safety?" From what? Her ult with a massive cooldown? Her laning phase is pure garbage.
I'd much rather they balance out her play style so it doesn't feel like you're trying to pass a pumpkin through your urethra until you get to level 11. She feels like shit to play, and it's just not fun. I don't want them to keep nerfing her. I want them to readjust her scaling completely.
xDogMeatx2 votes"Incredible safety?" From what? Her ult with a massive cooldown? Her laning phase is pure garbage.
I'd much rather they balance out her play style so it doesn't feel like you're trying to pass a pumpkin through your urethra until you get to level 11. She feels like shit to play, and it's just not fun. I don't want them to keep nerfing her. I want them to readjust her scaling completely.
see you get it. how about the fact she barely functions with one or 2 items on her compared to how jax hard scales off of items gets to be god after tri force thing.
kingDeDeDarius1 votesJax is broken af, don't use him to excuse other injustices, that's just poor debate.
Moody P1 votesI wish boards would stop pretending Kayle doesn't come online at level 6 so a legitimate discussion about this characters obscene strength could take place
Oleandervine3 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAE4KHJA,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-03-22T15:40:31.558+0000)
I wish boards would stop pretending Kayle doesn't come online at level 6 so a legitimate discussion about this characters obscene strength could take place
Kayle doesn't come online at level 6. You just can't murder her once every 160s at level 6. Kayle is still just as terrible at laning at level 6, because her ultimate and her passive is not going to keep any opponents from mounting her on her turret like a sock puppet.
Moody P1 votesKayle has potent wave pushing at 6 and more than enough damage and damage prevention that she can easily kill most lane opponents by 6 unless they keep her locked down for most of the fight or burst her so hard she can't possibly trade back (which is not a lot of champs)
Oleandervine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAE4KHJA,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-22T15:51:08.299+0000)
Kayle has potent wave pushing at 6 and more than enough damage and damage prevention that she can easily kill most lane opponents by 6 unless they keep her locked down for most of the fight or burst her so hard she can't possibly trade back (which is not a lot of champs)
Now you're trolling with blatant lies. She can't get into melee range to utilize her passive even at level 6 because 90% of her opponents will just attack her and bully her away from the wave before she can get enough stacks. So that means she has to try to poke the wave or her opponents with Q and E, which will cause her to OOM in like 3 spell casts, at which point she dies from the cross breeze as her opponent begins walking towards her. She has absolutely no kill pressure to speak of.
Moody P2 votesKayle can't 100-0 but she can absolutely fight back and her E gives her cheap poke and klepto rolls to scale faster. that plus her corruption and biscuits means she has little trouble ceding a small amount of CS to out scale basically everyone in top lane
maybe not in your level of play but considering Kayle only gets better the higher you sort for (and since this is "early game" meta and there is no late game according to boards) there's really not much to argue here
Oleandervine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAE4KHJA,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-22T16:04:02.038+0000)
Kayle can't 100-0 but she can absolutely fight back and her E gives her cheap poke and klepto rolls to scale faster. that plus her corruption and biscuits means she has little trouble ceding a small amount of CS to out scale basically everyone in top lane
maybe not in your level of play but considering Kayle only gets better the higher you sort for (and since this is "early game" meta and there is no late game according to boards) there's really not much to argue here
"Cheap Poke" is where I had to laugh. Her mana costs are atrociously high.
Moody P2 votesE costs 60-75. that's not atrocious at all for a fairly solid poke spell that becomes an AOE execute , especially factoring that she takes corrupting and biscuits from inspiration which restores and raises her max mana and whatever she may get from klepto
Titanium701 votesmaybe not in your level of play but considering Kayle only gets better the higher you sort for (and since this is "early game" meta and there is no late game according to boards) there's really not much to argue here
Now that's just nonsense - her winrate decreases with every tier you go up... (for obvious reasons)
Moody P1 votesNo it doesn't
Titanium701 votesSilver 55.4% Gold 54.9% Plat 54.7% Dia 54.0% Master 53.9% WInrates for Top only.
SO, where's your source?
Moody P1 votesLolalytics for this patch only cites her as rising until plat and then remaining at 55% in diamond to masters
kingDeDeDarius1 votesFalse, this is what not true if the Kayle is bad at wave manipulation. Most of them haven't gotten good and freeze the wave just right to play safe, but to also be able to stack passive in case they want to fight their lane opponent
kingDeDeDarius1 votesI thought like they do at first, but after this last week and seeing what GOOD kayle's can do with proper runes, starter items, and patience, I have to say you are correct. She has a high winrate for a reason, after all. The fact is, her early game isn't as abysmal as predicted unless she's facing a highly mobile and burst lane opponent like Ren or riv (or tryn even though he is only bursty when he crits). Even in those cases, she can stay safe and level up into a monster if she wants too. They should keep her late game where it is, but decrease her early rank healing and speed boosts on w and/or increase Mana cost on E to make her choose more between farming and poking. As it is, I see no reason why Darius should struggle against even good Kaylee's before lvl 11. But right now it's nearly impossible to even touch her without both ghost and flash up, and even then it's not a guarantee. Combine that with her ult and it's hard to finish her off more than maybe once during lane
kingDeDeDarius1 votesHer lane phase is not as garbage as people claim or predicted. I've faced a few Kayle's now who've got some experience, and now they usually play safe enough that I only get about one kill during lane and they are usually only down 10-20 can by about lvls 11-14, which means I technically LOST LANE in those situations and she is usually even with me in power before even hitting lvl 16. Mind you, I don't play riven or teemo or anything, but I play a lot of Darius and some nasus, and now that have had time on her, I have an incredibly difficult time getting ANY kills on her. With Darius I've tried ghost and ignite, and with nasus I go ghost. In either of those cases I hardly manage a kill, and she tends to get camped, but even when I get it help, unless it's a super aggressive diving ganker, it's hard to finish her off. Then she just uses corruption pition to heal back up her Mana and ho reserves and continues to poke/farm the whole lane phase while gradually and safely scaling into a monster. And trust me, I also play Kayle (I'm merely decent), and I have to agree with Moody's characterization. She is VERY safe right now if the player chooses to be. I think her late game potential is actually pretty fun to play as and terrifying to go against, but I have no problem with that. Instead I think they should reduce some early game sustain or increase her E Mana cost by like 5 or 10 so that she can't constantly harass and farm. As it is when I play Darius, she merely pokes and farms out of reach and if I approach her she easily lands her Q and uses W speed boost to get away, then I eat a ton of damage for nothing and generally miss my E pull due to the combination of her ranged slow and her speed boost
xDogMeatx1 voteswhy not use wukong or other hard gapcloser champs that have a point and click attack.
Ahri Baka2 votesAgreed , for some reason Boards and some streamers think she is a weak champion Hell I even saw her Many times beating Riven 1v1 at level 1 lmao
Timethief492 votes[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAE4KHJA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-22T15:46:26.371+0000)
Agreed , for some reason Boards and some streamers think she is a weak champion Hell I even saw her Many times beating Riven 1v1 at level 1 lmao
That must have been one god aweful riven. One case doesnt represent the majority.
xDogMeatx1 votesanother kayle nerf? items barely function on her. only rageblade bork hurricane have relevance on her.
Saianna2 votesif she gets to 55% winrate with only those 2 relevant items, then something is wrong af xD
xDogMeatx1 votesif she gets to 55% winrate with only those 2 relevant items, then something is wrong af xD
nah its the items thats the issue. blame the items not the champion in these cases. using this logic why not nerf yi since he builds these 2 items he autowins 1v1s. same logic= same topic. her greatest weakness is destroying her tower before level 11 so its mostly a 4.5 v 5 since shes melee and can be flanked too well if alone.
Saianna1 votesyou can't be serious. Kayle is what 2 weeks out and you blame items instead of champion? Obviously rageblade IS an issue, but the fact Riot didn't even consider items relation with kayle is even bigger offender here.
Moody P2 votesIsn't she buying crit right now?
Abibyama II2 votesShe pretty much buys everything except tank
xDogMeatx1 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAE4KHJA,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-03-22T14:59:25.090+0000)
Isn't she buying crit right now?
thats probably only thing she can get onto. although buying gargoyle stoneplate active can have her keep her true damage in a teamfight. if you went full ap you will get more true damage vs going ad is mixed damage with true damage.
kingDeDeDarius1 votesLmfao she has tons of great items. "Barely function on her" lol don't make us laugh. Nashors, void staff, runaans hurricane, I.E., bork, zhonyas, frozen mallet, rylais, banshees veil, lichbane, deathcap, etc are ALL great items on her when properly combined with runes. In fact, she has some of the better offensive itemization flexibility I have seen on any champion...ever, and some reasonable defensive options as well
kingDeDeDarius1 votesOh and rageblade as you mentioned
TengenToppaGnar1 votesI'm just gonna even out the score on your post But I don't really agree or disagree. Her late game is just ridiculous if she can get to it. But if she can't... she's got a better chance of pissing up a rain-spout with no splash back. Her early game needs a buff, her overall omg power spike towards late game needs to be toned down, however.