the fact that Ezreal top is completely untouchable to me as a melee champion after he has IBG is absurd
the fact that vlad and vayne and Ryze and Azir can bully you out of lane and then hard out scale you is completely pants on head
All of these champions need their base damages neutered and their spell costs doubled. This is ridiculous.
letsfeedtogether10 votesEzreal isnt a hyper carry. Kog maw has a bad early game. But i agree. Champs like vayne need a weaker early
Critmaster Garen2 votesEzreal isnt a hyper carry. Kog maw has a bad early game. But i agree. Champs like vayne need a weaker early
honestly, ive only done this once because i was tilted from a previous game and its been like 2 or 3 years ago, but ive beaten a fucking riven with kog maw top.
all you have to do is space yourself out and nonstop poke. range is so powerful its actually crazy.
Anime Fizz3 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8cwv22s,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-19T22:24:37.577+0000)
honestly, ive only done this once because i was tilted from a previous game and its been like 2 or 3 years ago, but ive beaten a fucking riven with kog maw top.
all you have to do is space yourself out and nonstop poke. range is so powerful its actually crazy.
Thats just one game.
The riven was probably bad and so was her jungler.
And yes, riven is really bad against ranged champs in lane since she has to use all her damage (Q) to get in the melee range, then she has nothing left (specially since she actually has cooldowns early game).
But anyways, if you got ganked once as kog top you'd been so out of the game that you'd probably afk, lane 1v1 isnt the only thing in the game.
Håneri1 voteslolol maybe that will work against another melee
not against champs with a million dashes and shields. the riven must ve been trash, bc whenever she gets her levels and cdr, RIP
Critmaster Garen1 voteslolol maybe that will work against another melee
not against champs with a million dashes and shields. the riven must ve been trash, bc whenever she gets her levels and cdr, RIP
she literally couldnt get close to minions without me activating w and auto attacking her back then. i did this like 2 or 3 times and she was forced to recall. the aoe slow made it even easier to stay away.
what was she going to do? blow her q and e to close the gap to me? then what? she blew all of her main damage sources to get into melee range. thats how you beat riven. you just space yourself out and focus on minion control.
it was actually surprisingly easy to beat her like that.
like i said, it was a long time ago and probably at the start of the season. so it might have just been that shes bad. im not a riven main, so i dont know. maybe the matchup just threw her off. but i really dont know what i would have done in her place tbh.
Håneri1 votesnot a hyper carry, hes an assassin now
like i played against him and his E does 450 damage... wtf??
f**k that champ
Chembaron Yamada1 votesI highly doubt that it was his E alone dealing that damage. Most likely you got marked with W before?
Håneri1 votesidk it said like 450 in death recap
and i dont doubt cause with his build now he got like 300+ ap and still a lot of ad, if he gets gunblade then just kills u with one combo
Rester7 votesJinx and Kog would be the Hypercarries... Ez is just an obnoxious AD caster that breaks the game every time with some absurd build (Looking at YOU Manamune/Seraph build)
Moody P5 votesEzreal hard scaled with the double tear build. Absolutely a hyper.
Sir Saltarin7 votesEzreal isn't an hiper carry, hipercarry doesn't mean "strong carry" you know?
Spicy Rice2 votesHyper carry doesn't mean strong though...
Hyper carries are champs who can essentially 1v9 once they are full build. Jinx, Vayne, Kog, Ryze, Azir, Jax, Yi, etc
nelogis6 votesThere is no such thing as an early or late game anymore, riot just fucked the game pacing up completely.
This game and every champ in it was originally designed with 30-45min long matches. Not 20-25.
You had your Vayne that sucked 10 dicks in the early game because she was godlike late game.
Now take away that late game and you have a champ that just sucks dick. Naturally you buff the champ that sucks dick so she can compete and be relevant before the game ends. But the game only consists of early and a bit of mid game now.
So essentially you have a champ that has impact in the early and mid game while being godlike late game. You can't weaken her early anymore since then she just sucks massive cock again.
It's the same with GP, if you weaken his early too much he will be just shit since it doesn't matter that he scales. He wont ever get to a state where his scaling matters since the game is over before he is lvl 13 and able to do anything.
You can't fix this shit with a few number changes, it is a fundamental problem.
MessyStuff1 votesThere is no such thing as an early or late game anymore, riot just fucked the game pacing up completely.
This game and every champ in it was originally designed with 30-45min long matches. Not 20-25.
You had your Vayne that sucked 10 dicks in the early game because she was godlike late game.
Now take away that late game and you have a champ that just sucks dick. Naturally you buff the champ that sucks dick so she can compete and be relevant before the game ends. But the game only consists of early and a bit of mid game now.
So essentially you have a champ that has impact in the early and mid game while being godlike late game. You can't weaken her early anymore since then she just sucks massive cock again.
It's the same with GP, if you weaken his early too much he will be just shit since it doesn't matter that he scales. He wont ever get to a state where his scaling matters since the game is over before he is lvl 13 and able to do anything.
You can't fix this shit with a few number changes, it is a fundamental problem.
I think if they make people get full builds earlier and just more gold in general, then it might achieve a balance? Or they could just bring back 30-45 mins which a lot of people like.
Abibyama II1 votesThere is no such thing as an early or late game anymore, riot just fucked the game pacing up completely.
This game and every champ in it was originally designed with 30-45min long matches. Not 20-25.
And then there's Kayle
nelogis1 votesYeah I forgot how Kayle perfectly fits into the game and doesn't have problems at all you're totally right
Sir Saltarin5 votesEzreal is a problem on pro play as an ADC.
The Ezreal Tops you meet in whatever the elo you are, are irrelevant, I dont even find data for Ezreal Top for how marginal his pickrate is there.
Nik Nikerson3 votesEzreal isn't really a problem in pro play, he's just good. If he were a problem, teams wouldn't be fine constantly giving him up to their opponents.
Jamaree5 votesVlad's early game is shit, he is just able to take advantage of melee match ups, play a ranged champion against him and shit on him.
Moody P5 votesIf your early game is conditionally bad then its not bad.
Jamaree5 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8cwv22s,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-03-19T12:14:52.017+0000)
If your early game is conditionally bad then its not bad.
What? That isn't how that works, Vlad going top to make up for his shit laning is literally no different then mages going bot because assassins have bullied them out?
LTK KoRo3 votesmages didn't go bot because assassins bullied them, mages went bot because they could bully adcs more easily than other mages on mid
Anime Fizz2 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8cwv22s,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-20T07:35:14.040+0000)
mages didn't go bot because assassins bullied them, mages went bot because they could bully adcs more easily than other mages on mid
mages went bot because they were better at doing everything adc did.
I mean, not just adcs, mages were better than basically every class in the game other than maybe bruisers, and they still are the strongest class in the game with the most presence accross every position.
SpaghettiVase1 votesNotice how every mage bot is an squishy p.o.s with 0 mobility and shit farming. When champions like 
are the meta (as they are right now) there's no way a 
or a 
could even lane.
Saianna1 votesmages went bot, because Riot nerfed their ap ratios and waveclears which forced them out of mid. And because of their nature they can still poke hard enough.
SuperTopLFBottom2 votesWhat? That isn't how that works, Vlad going top to make up for his shit laning is literally no different then mages going bot because assassins have bullied them out?
Wait what!?
Is that how we rewrite history now? Mages went bot because ASSASSINS BULLIED THEM OUT? Assassins haven't been relevant since atleast season 6. If someone like leblanc (who builds mage items btw) cropt up riot made sure they disappear. Hell not even GP was allowed to be played midlane because NOTHING is allowed that threatens mage dominance. Assassins get like one patch of glory where talon is allowed to play the game before he gets kneecapped again. Let's not even talk about talon for the longest time being better top than midlane THAT is how absurd assassins have to be. Actually beating bruisers and they are STILL not able to overcome mages. HMMM. THINKING EMOJI.
These fuckin boards man.
Jamaree1 votesWait what!?
Is that how we rewrite history now? Mages went bot because ASSASSINS BULLIED THEM OUT? Assassins haven't been relevant since atleast season 6. If someone like leblanc (who builds mage items btw) cropt up riot made sure they disappear.
How is that rewriting anything? Brand, Zyra, Morgana, Annie, all mages who can’t cut it mid anymore losing to other mages and assassins who have been relegated bot because of it and lb is an assassin, not sure how her buying mage items means she isn’t.
Hell not even GP was allowed to be played midlane because NOTHING is allowed that threatens mage dominance. Assassins get like one patch of glory where talon is allowed to play the game before he gets kneecapped again. Let's not even talk about talon for the longest time being better top than midlane THAT is how absurd assassins have to be. Actually beating bruisers and they are STILL not able to overcome mages. HMMM. THINKING EMOJI.
So wait, so champions should be allowed to dominate two lanes as long as they are melee then?
Side note, how you going to complain about mage superiority and dominance when a top Laner currently has the highest win and ban rate right now? Riven btw.
Sirsir2 votesOr an engage champ, and just don't let up the pressure and don't let him freeze under tower.
SuperTopLFBottom1 votesOr an engage champ, and just don't let up the pressure and don't let him freeze under tower.
Ah great idea unless that important little aspect you forgot: As long as the jungle is in this absurd state of non stop ganking all game long with no costs to it you cannot do that. So why should in a snowbally meta where pushing and lane priority matters the most PLAYING THE CHAMPIONS that do THAT be inherently more risky than a ranged hypercarry?
Oh yeah because the ranged hypercarry is so safe he can ignore the laning phase, outscale within one item and win the game. So what is the point of playing someone who can pressure him? It is way riskier, the benefit is basically non existant especially in soloQ where your team will never abuse the fact you are fed IF you even get to that point and get outscaled in a few minutes and become an irrelevant piece of shit.
SuperTopLFBottom1 votesVlad's early game is shit, he is just able to take advantage of melee match ups, play a ranged champion against him and shit on him.
If your only answer to a ranged champion is "never pick a melee champion ever" then there is something seriously wrong with this game. Melee champions would like to play the game too outside of the jungle you know? And let's not act that the champions that er played especially toplane are great for the game and should be kept at all costs, e.g. cassio, vlad, ryze, kennen, jayce. All shitty champions that make the game unfun for everyone involved except the players of said champions. Alternative is to finally buff camille back so we have an answer to this absurdly overpowered ranged cancer.
Jamaree2 votesIf your only answer to a ranged champion is "never pick a melee champion ever" then there is something seriously wrong with this game. Melee champions would like to play the game too outside of the jungle you know? And let's not act that the champions that er played especially toplane are great for the game and should be kept at all costs, e.g. cassio, vlad, ryze, kennen, jayce. All shitty champions that make the game unfun for everyone involved except the players of said champions. Alternative is to finally buff camille back so we have an answer to this absurdly overpowered ranged cancer.
I mean there are melees that make the lane unfun for other melees, playing melee into Renekton, Illaoi and Darius is just as cancer as playing against a ranged champion but alright I suppose.
OtterlyLost4 votesEzreal isn't a hyper carry. .-. He does need to be gutted because his a really shitty design(which is clear since he's been a problem for seasons; he's like a cock roach. Even when he's not meta, oops, nevermind, he is! He'll just play Jungle until he can function bot again, la-dee-fucking-da.)
Ryze is garbage so I don't understand the Ryze hate; he's got a 47% winrate top and a 45% winrate mid with a combined pick rate of 8%. If you're losing to Ryze, that's just you not understanding the match up or something. I internally groan if I see a Ryze on my team because he's such a joke champion.
Vayne is a problem. Her weakest point is levels 1-5 and even then, it isn't that week since she actually out ranges a fair few ADCs; Tristana, Sivir, Kai'sa just to name a few. Her tumble + Fleet gives her a stupidly good trade; she just tumbles in and AA's you with that fat ass AD steroid that they crammed on the ability and then uses Fleet MS to run away. Even without fleet, if the support isn't punishing her or zoning her, she can do the same combo without it. And Post 6 she is untouchable by other ADCs. She really needs to be toned back. The AD steroid on her tumble needs to be removed or greatly reduced and her tumble and ult interaction needs to go.
Vlad I feel like is fine. He's pretty telegraphed in what he wants to do; he wants to suck minions and survive laning phase because his real power is teamfights. He's got a perfectly even winrate at 50%.
Azir has a 47% winrate; why are we complaining about him?
MessyStuff1 votesRyze is garbage so I don't understand the Ryze hate; he's got a 47% winrate top and a 45% winrate mid with a combined pick rate of 8%. If you're losing to Ryze, that's just you not understanding the match up or something. I internally groan if I see a Ryze on my team because he's such a joke champion.
Azir has a 47% winrate; why are we complaining about him?
These champs have low winrates because they are extremely high skill floor/ceiling champs. Ryze is always bad in solo bc his ult needs teamwork and that only usually is op in pros, but sucks in low elo/solo queue. Azir is just a high skill floor/ceiling in general so he has a low winrate. Actually idk why he put them in there, but I think he just needed an example of late game champs(which I'm not sure they fit) who are now ok early.
Sirsir3 votesAre we complaining about Azir and Ryze? 47 and 45% winrates?
Having a bad early game doesn't mean being utterly useless to the point you can lose lane to an inferior opponent. It means in the event you are both good you should be losing.
Ryze/Cass are very strong in lane. Until their mana runs out in like 2 rotations. Vlad gets shit on by anyone who knows not to let up pressure (assuming their champ can apply pressure, if not thats a counterpick).
Ezreal is neither a hypercarry or a top laner. Who knows, maybe thats the next big issue top lane has. Not like the role is one cancer after another... And yes Vayne is BS right now, can we just ditch 
Phantom Hit and move on with our lives?
DuskDaUmbreon3 votesEzreal isn't a hypercarry (no, not even with double tear. Scaling hard does NOT make you a hypercarry), and please, please find me a instance of Vayne actually bullying anyone in a lane she actually wins - She barely has a 50% winrate and a 5% pickrate.
And Azir and Ryze aren't relevant in any tier but proplay and URF anyways...
EthreainAmbusher3 votesMoody, as a person I like you, sure.
But when you directly insult Azir, someone who is probably the weakest champion early, a champion who already has neutered base damage and stats in general, and someone who isn't exactly as easy to play and carry with as other champions like Garen or Yi, someone who needs to get nerfed for the thousandth time since his release? Sure! Just make sure Make his base stats negative, lose health per second, and a constant 30 mana drain on hit with a Q, W, E, or R, since if he goes like this and gets nerfed like you want, he'll get 100-0'd by anyone, ESPECIALLY in laning phase, more than he already has been.
I mean, his entire premise is: Farm until 30 minutes, place a tower and shove lanes, hope to god everyone hasn't fed someone, and then maybe, just maybe, you'll win a game.
If not, you'll lose to a 47% wr champion. sad.
Moody P1 votesIts really funny to me that a few days ago a masters tier player told me that champs like ryze and azir are broken at 47% win rate and then here on boards a bunch of lets say not masters players are all mocking me for pulling them up when they have 47% win rates.
Azir consistently bullies out lanes that can't match his range because he has low cost and targeted harass. Melee laners that aren't ridiculously hyper mobile and can deal with Azir's range, disengage, and his own mobility one at a time don't stand a chance against him.
EthreainAmbusher1 votesHe specifically hard counters people with shorter range than he, and gets hard countered by anyone with damage or more range than he, with the examples of Zed and Xerath coming to mind.
And the point of Azir, like a kayn early, is to try and help yourself out so you can scale and eventually win, much like Veigar except he opted for the AS route and not the burst route.
and unlike Top Ezreal and Top Vayne, he actually has a pretty shitty early game, so it's well worth him being stronger later in the game, no?
Not to mention he got consistently gutted many times in a row, with this being one of the few buffs hes gotten.
Warlord Rhinark2 votesIceborn Gauntlet just needs to be made melee only in order to fix Ezreal.
Vlad shouldn't be that big of a problem in the early.
Same thing with Ryze and Azir.
But Vayne I totally agree on.
Reohare2 votesEzreal it's not the issue. The issue is toplane beign a forgotten lane where melee vs. ranged is always abused and always will be until they fix it somehow. Just look at the meta, Vlad, Kennen abusing Klepto and Jayce poking you from his nexus.
YUUKI VK2 votesEzreal it's not the issue. The issue is toplane beign a forgotten lane where melee vs. ranged is always abused and always will be until they fix it somehow. Just look at the meta, Vlad, Kennen abusing Klepto and Jayce poking you from his nexus.
i want them to make dorans give 50% more healing if you take damage from ranged champs, also make it a melee only passive
Mezo2 votesRyze and Azir? are we playing the same game?
PrinceOfStorms1 votesVlad is pretty weak early, just abuse his excessively long early cooldowns (9 (!) seconds at level 1 on Q, 13 on E).
But Vayne yeah, she needs to lose like 15 base AD and Silver Bolts shouldn't deal true damage until it's maxed.
The Skáld1 votesExcept Kog, all ADC hyper carries have better early game and scaling than normal ADCs.
Illabethe1 votesI just completely shut down a Top TF as Morg jung, only to have him 1v5 my team after about 27 minutes. As soon as he got Guinsoo's he was 1v5ing.
People think Neeko needed nerfed for her W. It's not like TF doesn't have larger AD scaling, Larger Attack speed scaling, more mobility, more spammable aoes, Mana sustain, and a MUCH larger proccing on hit skill.....
AD TF was shredding a Gnar with 
equipped.
OtakuBurrito1 votesCan Riot learn to balance something other than music?
Power Cosmic1 votesThese are real hypercarries and correspondingly have weak early games: 
Are unbalanced hypercarries bc they are strong early AND scale: 
Akali is SO HOT1 votesMake it so Vlad does 0% damage against melees for the first 20 minutes of the game thx