"But My Build Doesn't Include QSS"

Woodakoodashooda·Jun 22, 2019·34 votes·14,352 views

Well I don't give a fuck.

If you're facing Mordekaiser, this item is a goddamn game saver. I don't care if you're support. Buy the mother fucking thing! It really is a game saver. Want to beat Morde in 100% of all games played against him or close to it? Get it!

Just got out of a game where only me and our ADC bought the damn thing. Morde stopped ultiing me after I used it then he tried our ADC, they used it and Morde died immediately after in a team fight!

SO FUCKING BUY IT!

59 Comments

CaptainAntiHerozJun 22, 201916 votes

Honestly QSS just needs to build into more than item 3139 , and im not saying i disagree with JUST BUY IT but it really feels hella bad to be the mage with qss and nothing preferable to build it into other than one AD item, and yeah theres item 3102 for mages but ANYTHING will trigger that, i just wish riot made more items that build out of base items, more variety isnt bad if done right but yeah, just buy QSS to beat morde ult

YuMing5Jun 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Honestly QSS just needs to build into more than , and im not saying i disagree with JUST BUY IT but it really feels hella bad to be the mage with qss and nothing preferable to build it into other than one AD item, and yeah theres for mages but ANYTHING will trigger that, i just wish riot made more items that build out of base items, more variety isnt bad if done right but yeah, just buy QSS to beat morde ult

THANK YOU

it does suck to be forced into buying it and having it just sit there in your inventory rip

RainbowIceeJun 22, 20191 votes

for mages you need item 3157 and time to use it when he uses his Q and make sure your CC is up to buy time. It's not the best solution, but it's the best one atm.

RagnaveilJun 22, 20196 votes

Fr. Now that counters are starting to pop out, it feels like Morde is honestly on the weak side since his late game is not that great.

Chembaron YamadaJun 22, 201928 votes

His winrate is still around 50.5 - 52 % (depends which site you are using), so he honestly doesn't seem weak. Every champion has counters, that alone does not determine their strength in general.

RagnaveilJun 22, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-22T11:00:55.163+0000)

His winrate is still around 50.5 - 52 % (depends which site you are using), so he honestly doesn't seem weak. Every champion has counters, that alone does not determine their strength in general.

Issue is, how much of that is accurate? Cuz I still run into people that don't buy qss for Morde R.

JackMcCarryJun 22, 201917 votes

{quoted}

Issue is, how much of that is accurate? Cuz I still run into people that don't buy qss for Morde R.

In that case, shouldnt skarner be the same case? But skarner has less than 1% pickrate and still lower WR than morde, and he's a champion people had experience with for years. Morde is much more than just a walking ult like other champions who are countered by QSS.

RagnaveilJun 22, 20192 votes

{quoted}

In that case, shouldnt skarner be the same case? But skarner has less than 1% pickrate and still lower WR than morde, and he's a champion people had experience with for years. Morde is much more than just a walking ult like other champions who are countered by QSS.

But the rework is new. God knows how many games were played before people discovered the counterplay, and god knows how many of the games have people using it.

Chembaron YamadaJun 22, 20198 votes

The rework is new: That is not just a disadvantage for those playing against Mordekaiser, you know?

In general, most champions start with a really low winrate after a complete rework, because people have to learn how to play the champion as well as people have to learn to play against it. Usually, the winrate starts low and builds up over time when people learn to utilise the new kit at full potential, as well as learning the best itemization and other details.

This was not the case for Mordekaiser. His winrate was really high considering that he got just released. I don't expect Mordekaiser's winrate to fall off alot, maybe it might even improve further when people have finally pinned down the optimal way to play him.

C9 AphroliftJun 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-22T12:32:04.513+0000)

The rework is new: That is not just a disadvantage for those playing against Mordekaiser, you know?

In general, most champions start with a really low winrate after a complete rework, because people have to learn how to play the champion as well as people have to learn to play against it. Usually, the winrate starts low and builds up over time when people learn to utilise the new kit at full potential, as well as learning the best itemization and other details.

The key piece you're missing here is the buffs to make them "viable" until they're a must pick or ban. Then Riot nerfs them into the ground a few patches later. It's just a champion/skin money grab.

This was not the case for Mordekaiser. His winrate was really high considering that he got just released. I don't expect Mordekaiser's winrate to fall off alot, maybe it might even improve further when people have finally pinned down the optimal way to play him.

They have released many champs and reworks that were broken AF often with 50%+ winrate right from the start.

Chembaron YamadaJun 23, 20191 votes

The key piece you're missing here is the buffs to make them "viable" until they're a must pick or ban. Then Riot nerfs them into the ground a few patches later. It's just a champion/skin money grab.

Admitted, there have been quite some champions they overbuffed after they started weak on release. I don't know if this is necessarily a money grab, tho. For example, Urgot started pretty weak after his rework and they didn't buff him for 2 patches, that's 4 weeks they waited before giving him any meaningful buffs.

They have released many champs and reworks that were broken AF often with 50%+ winrate right from the start.

Can't come up with many right now myself, mind to give some examples?

C9 AphroliftJun 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T08:43:25.315+0000)

Admitted, there have been quite some champions they overbuffed after they started weak on release. I don't know if this is necessarily a money grab, tho. For example, Urgot started pretty weak after his rework and they didn't buff him for 2 patches, that's 4 weeks they waited before giving him any meaningful buffs.

It's still a money grab...it's just they happened to take an extra patch more to do it in that case. Just watch any new released/reworked champion and you'll see the recurring pattern.

Can't come up with many right now myself, mind to give some examples?

Didn't track all the winrates but consider the list of recent ones: Mordekaiser - broken positive winrate as released Yuumi - got exactly 13 hot fix buffs because not broken upon release Morgana - broken for a few patches before being nerfed Irelia - broken permaban/pick in pro play; Akali - broken permaban/pick in pro play for how many patches even after nerfs over who knows how many patches.

Velzard of KozJun 22, 20198 votes

League of Graphs uses last two days. 72% Banrate, 12% pickrate, 51% winrate Top Plat+. There's no way to not interpret that as problem other than "I don't feel that way".

Sinister AnubisJun 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In that case, shouldnt skarner be the same case? But skarner has less than 1% pickrate and still lower WR than morde, and he's a champion people had experience with for years. Morde is much more than just a walking ult like other champions who are countered by QSS.

The problem with skarner is that he doesn't continue to dmg you after ulti. Morde ultis you and runs you down solo.

JackMcCarryJun 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reckless Anubis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-23T01:41:49.659+0000)

The problem with skarner is that he doesn't continue to dmg you after ulti. Morde ultis you and runs you down solo.

that wasnt my point. Every champ with the counterplay of "just buy QSS" is pretty much a walking ult. Mahlz, Skarner - their kit is lackluster aside from their ult, thats their highlight, by buying QSS you counterplay the strongest part of their kit.

Is morde's ult really the strongest part of his kit? when he has an AoE pull and a passive that gives him perma in fight movespeed and % health damage around him? Morde isnt the same as Skarner and malz because Morde is a much more complete champion, seeing people hammer "JUST BUY QSS" over and over when half the roster cant even buy QSS, and the other that can still dont really counter him, they just make their team mates the target of morde's ult.

Sinister AnubisJun 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

that wasnt my point. Every champ with the counterplay of "just buy QSS" is pretty much a walking ult. Mahlz, Skarner - their kit is lackluster aside from their ult, thats their highlight, by buying QSS you counterplay the strongest part of their kit.

Is morde's ult reaYet malz has % damage silence and a shield to. Comon man you can find a better argument then this.

BackdoorPrincessJun 23, 20191 votes

Skarner also doesn't have huge base damages +decent ap scaling, nor does he take the person he ults to a separate dimension

Dotty LBJun 22, 20191 votes

Are you trolling, if he is forcing you to build an item that is nearly useless to you outside of his ultimate he is putting you behind 1200 gold. Thats far from "on the weak side".

ArfBarkBoofJun 23, 20191 votes

If you honestly think QSS is a terrible item outside of using on Morde's ultimate, I got some news for you.

Sugar MommaJun 22, 20196 votes

Tbh, while it does help against him, you really don’t need item 3140 to beat Morde.

If you are ahead, you can simply kill him in his ult.

If you have CC, kite him.

Things like item 3157 can buy time.

Since Mordekaiser has no other CC in his kit you can cleanse, QSS doesn’t have a ton of value for its price.

RainbowIceeJun 22, 20191 votes

Depends on the champion. Some champs don't have hard CC and mord can 2 shot ADC's. Not only that but let's assume you can duel out morde you can be the carry of the team and by the time you kill morde the team fight may become sour and you're on the losing side. It's better to just QSS to be back with the team specially if they need you. For mages sadly yes you got no choice but to buy time or see if you can avoid being ultied though the ult does have a sizable range.

PántheónJun 22, 20192 votes

1300 gold tax just to play the game? what a fucking joke

WoodakoodashoodaJun 22, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=i got the stacks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-22T14:38:04.494+0000)

1300 gold tax just to play the game? what a fucking joke

Yeah, living under the expectation of investing gold to counter your opponents so as to provide yourself and your allies a winning chance is hilarious, isn't it?

Troll for TrumpJun 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-22T14:59:51.585+0000)

Yeah, living under the expectation of investing gold to counter your opponents so as to provide yourself and your allies a winning chance is hilarious, isn't it?

QSS just exists to counter toxic champ design. And it makes the players playing said toxic champ feel worse too.

XilixerJun 23, 20191 votes

not really. If I'm playing a champ that forces the opponent to waste gold just to counter me I consider that a small victory as that means they can't be at full build or counter my teammates.

hhaavviikkJun 22, 20192 votes

still can't get behind the fact it removes mordekaiser his ult when it isn't CC

Chembaron YamadaJun 23, 20191 votes

It is a needed layer of counterplay.

FSRERJun 22, 20192 votes

You have Qss as adc/fighter/assassin and zhonyas as mage. Tanks don't have anything..

KFCeytronJun 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You have Qss as adc/fighter/assassin and zhonyas as mage. Tanks don't have anything..

item 3193

Chembaron YamadaJun 23, 20191 votes

He is talking about something that lets you prevent the death realm alltogether. This item would just let you survive in it, but you are still trapped for the whole duration.

KFCeytronJun 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T08:51:15.078+0000)

He is talking about something that lets you prevent the death realm alltogether. This item would just let you survive in it, but you are still trapped for the whole duration.

I wasn't aware that Zhonya's pops you out of the death realm. I thought it just ate up some of Morde's cage match time. Does it immediately cancel his ult? Does it do so if he uses one himself?

Chembaron YamadaJun 23, 20191 votes

You don't get pulled into the shadow realm if you are untargetable during Mordekaiser's ult animation. So if you activate Zhonya's in the right moment, then you can prevent his ultimate on you and it goes on cooldown.

It requires better timing than simply cancelling his ultimate with a QSS, but it is at least possible.

KFCeytronJun 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T09:52:01.700+0000)

You don't get pulled into the shadow realm if you are untargetable during Mordekaiser's ult animation. So if you activate Zhonya's in the right moment, then you can prevent his ultimate on you and it goes on cooldown.

It requires better timing than simply cancelling his ultimate with a QSS, but it is at least possible.

Ah, I see.

I once bought Zhonya's as support Janna just to mess with a Veigar.

He was mad.

zeskgamesJun 22, 20192 votes

Hopefully Riot doesn't pull a Zed and make it so Morde ult can't be cleansed.

BEK MakadurJun 22, 20191 votes

Morde ult being cleansable is just stupid...

Chembaron YamadaJun 23, 20192 votes

It is needed.

If you can't cleanse his ultimate with QSS, then Mordekaiser becomes the ultimate objective control. Whenever both teams are contesting baron/dragon, then Mordekaiser could simply ult the enemy jungler before the objective gets low enough to smite. The enemy jungler can't target baron/dragon anymore now, making Mordekaiser's team the only one with a smite to claim the objective.

QSS gives the jungler the option to buy this item, cleanse the ultimate in that situation, and keep contesting the objective. It is a needed layer of counterplay, it has to stay.

PermaJinxedJun 22, 20192 votes

Since Morde's ult checks for it's target twice, you can negate the ult with anything that makes you untargetable AFTER he uses his ult but before you get ported. Vayne Neeko Shaco Sivir Khazix MonkeyKing Nocturne (possibly Fiora ) can all innately NOPE a Morde ult without items at all... Though Vayne and Kha have to ult to do so.

Unsure if troll pole, blood pool, ice prison, or Zhonya's can be used to negate it though.

Also unsure if unstoppable would work.. If it does, Ornn and Sion are immune too.

RitrozarkJun 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Since Morde's ult checks for it's target twice, you can negate the ult with anything that makes you untargetable AFTER he uses his ult but before you get ported. (possibly ) can all innately NOPE a Morde ult without items at all... Though Vayne and Kha have to ult to do so.

Unsure if troll pole, blood pool, ice prison, or Zhonya's can be used to negate it though.

Also unsure if unstoppable would work.. If it does, and are immune too.

I saw a clip of Fizz going untargetable cancelling it during channel, so any form of untargetability stop it during channel it seems, but Unstoppable seems to be the opposite, he can put an ulting Olaf into the death realm, however Olaf can cancel death realm with his ult if he activates it while in the death realm.

IkBenShteenJun 22, 20191 votes

I remember the good old outrage on malz mains when qss and cleanse used to remove their ult, yet surprisingly everyone seems fine with it when it happens on morde :P

Chembaron YamadaJun 23, 20191 votes

What do you mean with "used to"? QSS is still removing Malzahars ultimate.

And Mordekaiser's ult needs to be removable with QSS. If you can't cleanse his ultimate with QSS, then Mordekaiser becomes the ultimate objective control. Whenever both teams are contesting baron/dragon, then Mordekaiser could simply ult the enemy jungler before the objective gets low enough to smite. The enemy jungler can't target baron/dragon anymore now, making Mordekaiser's team the only one with a smite to claim the objective.

QSS gives the jungler the option to buy this item, cleanse the ultimate in that situation, and keep contesting the objective. It is a needed layer of counterplay, it has to stay.

Caitlyn FTWJun 22, 20191 votes

[deleted]

NeravaJun 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-06-22T21:53:04.703+0000)

Btw, supports can buy this instead:

I'm pretty sure Crucible doesn't work on it. It's got a big, clear list instead of "crowd control debuffs." Haven't actually tried it though.

GentlemanGhidoraJun 23, 20191 votes

I still run into a lot of people who have zero clue that QSS does anything about his ult. I just keep friendly reminding people if he goes unbanned but then picked by enemy team and I ALWAYS get at least one person that says, "really?"

Like, yeah, I feel like it's a more oblivious case than those who refuse to build armor pen against tanks and grievous wounds against healing champs. It's a gong show.

PedobearTheBeastJun 23, 20191 votes

For all the people complaining about QSS being for AD champs, getting cleanse or timing zhonyas very well during the channel also work. Additionally, it is always possible to use stuns, silences or displacements, but you do need to predict it well. Worst case scenario, item 3102 can stop any insta death realms, and force him or his allies to hit you first.

mosdeadlyJun 23, 20191 votes

nope thats not what you should be doing. if your a mage get item 3157 item 3102 item 3152 (if you are about to get hit by it protobelt will get you just out of range).

If your a support you can either get that or get item 3222

If youre an adc or an assassin qss is almost as good of an option as item 3153 item 3156 item 3025 (these mostly apply to adcs but im serious you should have no problem beating a morde 1v1 if you just kite his ass. He has NO mobility)

TargonJun 24, 20191 votes

Does item 3222 even work on Mordekaiser ultimate? I don't think you can use the active on yourself, and if your ally gets ulted by Mordekaiser, then how you target them to activate Mikael's on (unless there is a slight delay from the cast of his ultimate in which with perfect timing you can click your ally to free them before they enter the death realm).

mosdeadlyJun 24, 20191 votes

Theres about a 1 second delay and its pretty telegraphed when mordekaiser will ult. If a support is trying to mikael herself she is a useless support.

Linna ExcelJun 24, 20191 votes

summoner 1 should also help.

Meep ManJun 24, 20191 votes

I may be wrong, but that specifically doesn't work. Cleanse does not affect Suppression, which is seemingly what Morde ult is coded as. It also doesn't affect Malz ult.

Linna ExcelJun 24, 20191 votes

Really? That's rough.

summoner 6 would be my backup as far as summoners go.