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It's still shocking no one is talking about Kled's insane amount of Health

The Ecdysiast··6 votes·3,019 views

TL;DR at the bottom. So, not counting Kled, here's some champion health numbers:

Anivia The lowest health level 1 is Anivia, with 480. Janna The lowest health level 18 is Janna with 1,690. (I talk more about Gnar below)

Tryndamere The highest health level 1 is Tryndamere, with 626. Galio The highest health level 18 is Galio, with 2,466. Sion Let it be noted that Sion's health at level 18, including Soul Furnace and assuming his cs and takedowns are average according to champion.gg, is only 2,308 (which is a problem of its own and you can bet I'll be making a thread about it).

Gnar Gnar, who has the most similar health mechanic to Kled, has 510 - 1615, while Mega Gnar has 610 - 2446. So Mega Gnar doesn't beat Tryndamere early or Galio late, and the heal from the base health increase is only 100 - 831. This is important to note because healing from health increases are not effected by Grievous Wounds. Similarly: Shyvana Shyvana's health is increased by a flat 150/250/350 by her R. Nasus Nasus's heath is increased by a flat 300/450/600 by his R. Renekton Renekton's health is increased by a flat 250/500/750 by his R.

Now, with those numbers in mind, let's look at Kled. **To preface, his Unmounted health is not to be considered his base, since his default state is Mounted and he spends very little of the game unmounted. **

  • Kled's health at level 1 is 740. That's 260 more than the lowest and 114 more than the highest.

  • Kled's heath at level 18 is 2,950. That's 1,258 more than the lowest and 484 more than the highest. It's also still 150 higher than Renekton with R at level 18.

Chogath The only champion that can compete with him is the completely immobile Cho'gath, late game.

And if we compare Skaarl's return with the other Grievous Wounds immune health increases: Not even including the fact that, unlike theirs, it scales with bonus HP from items, it will still beat all of them:

|Level-------------------------|Healing| |- |1| 200 | |6| 382 | |11| 648 | |16| 1014 | |18| 1136 |

If we include his common core build, item 3071 item 3748 item 3053, his healing from Skaarl at level 18 would be 2,178, not effected by Grievous Wounds. And that's still not counting the fact most Kleds would build an additional defense item.

And you might think to yourself, "well surely he must have low defensive stats if he's guaranteed at minimum 484 more health than every other champion in the game can have with the same items. But no, he actually has base armor, MR, and growth within the top ten.

Keeping in mind that all that is on top of being highly mobile even for a fighter, and having no ability costs. This is, frankly put, not okay. The only thing keeping him from being insanely overpowered is that he's single-target for the most part--- but that wouldn't change at all if he had his health lowered to a balanced level. He'd perform exactly the same in teamfights.

This is an issue for both his enemies in lane and the Kled himself, since it translates to a complete reliance on getting fed in order to be relevant to the team. If he had his health lowered to the average health of a fighter, he'd still have the strongest burst-self-heal in the game, but they'd be able to provide QoL buffs to the rest of his kit--- perhaps even make the switch to Violent Tendencies being activated.

TL;DR: Kled has 114 - 484 (based on level) more max HP than the next runner-up, and has a grievous wounds immune heal of up to 2,700 at full build. For no cost. What the actual fuck?

14 Comments

Ahpe5 votes

Health is useless without armour and/or mr because of how much max health damage there is and not to forget all the math that goes into damage reduction and effective health via armour/mr.

Here's how many champions have max health damage, missing health damage and/or current health damage AatroxAmumuBrandCamilleDrMundoEkkoEliseEvelynnFioraGarenGnarGragasJarvanIVJayceJhinKalistaKaynKledKogMawLeeSinMalzaharMaokaiMordekaiserMorganaNasusNidaleeOrnnPantheonPoppyRivenShenShyvanaSingedSionTahmKenchTrundleUrgotVarusVayneViVolibearWarwickXinZhaoYorickZacZed

Also item 3153item 3151 which are accessible to EVERY champion

Kled tends to build item 3071item 3748item 3053 and don't forget item 1001. Now he only has 2 item slots for 2 defensive items which usually includes item 3026 which only provides 40 armour.

#His high base health is NOT a problem especially since Kled himself (without Skaarl) has low base health.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

As I said, his base defensive stats are on par with all tanks. And you still have the choice to buy defensive items on top of Cleaver, instead of and in addition to Titanic, which Kled does do.

He is a fighter, not a tank. Other fighters don't stack armor/mr either. And if he had literally the lowest damage dealt of any fighter, you'd have an argument. But he doesn't.

Then there's the fact

#HE IS MOUNTED BY DEFAULT. You're simply being facetious if you're going to claim his base health as a factor in this, since he never starts off at just his base health and spends very little time unmounted.

Ahpe2 votes

Again maximum health damage.

And Kled has entirely single target damage meaning sure, he's a fucking bitch to 1v1 but in a teamfight he's really only useful to cause mayhem in the backline meaning if you can successfully defend the backline and you've already dealt with his team he will melt.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Yes, I talked about this with a friend of mine who likes Kled. The only reason his win rate isn't insanely high is the fact he's single-target. Although with base defense that insanely high and two dashes, it's a simple task to get to the priority targets. And you can always buy an armor item earlier, only morons are completely strict with the first three items on a fighter. If you're pretending he's garbage because Bork Exists, then your logic works the same as saying Bork is garbage because Thornmail exists. It just doesn't make sense. And buying Bork, which has no HP or CDR, is a hard sell against someone whose first buy is the strongest starting item of any class, Black Cleaver.

And his insane health, which translates to a nearly impossible to lose lane phase, is as much a problem for people who like Kled. Because it means they can't afford to give him the one buff that would make him fluid and more enjoyable to play-- that is, letting you choose when to activate Violent Tendencies. If they did that with his health as it is now, it would be impossible even for direct counters to beat him.

And as is, you've still given me no explanation as to why it's okay for his health to be this big, in fact you've only added to my point by agreeing that it makes his 1v1 unfair.

Ahpe1 votes

I've never said anyone or anything is garbage.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/5f/Maybe_Next_Time_Emote.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/90?cb=20180224183508

Kled in lane isn't that hard as you make it out to be, maybe you've only played bad matchups.

  • All he has base high defensive stats, no sustain or damage mitigation like CamilleFioraIrelia
  • I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't fight him when his W is up and/or his courage bar is up
  • Extremely susceptible to poke
  • His base armour/mr is practically the same to most other fighters since he's a diver, not a juggernaut

And yeah, Kled IS suppose to be a bitch to 1v1 lol, he's a splitpusher.

Jefftiffy3 votes

{quoted}

Again maximum health damage.

And Kled has entirely single target damage meaning sure, he's a fucking bitch to 1v1 but in a teamfight he's really only useful to cause mayhem in the backline meaning if you can successfully defend the backline and you've already dealt with his team he will melt.

You didn't mention that he loses his E his main mobility move while unmounted and loses base MS in exchange for incentive to keep going in and maybe get his second hp bar back if he doesn't get CC'd off the person he's diving or dies.

UnboundHades2 votes

It's mostly due to kleds health(unmounted) meaning nothing since he will always be forced to either recall in lane or be poked unless the enemy let's him build rage while later game he's just gonna die the second he gets knocked off skarll since he's basically useless

Well that's the way I look at it

The Ecdysiast2 votes

But that doesn't follow reason. Anyone will be forced to recall or be poked once they've been brought down that low.

He's the only champion who's able to get back half of his HP all at once simply for staying and attacking. And they're not "letting" him get courage, his Q does a ton of damage unmounted, so it's still a huge risk for anyone melee to continue to attacking him.

The argument that his unmounted health isn't a lot doesn't work because he is mounted by default and has the ability to re-mount. If he spent a lot of time unmounted, you'd have a point. But he simply doesn't.

UnboundHades2 votes

And other champs can slowly heal and use potions and take things like honeyfruit or in some cases ocean Drake but kleds health stays that low so he's always gonna be there unless you let him get on you without killing him since minions barely give courage and he won't be pushing unmounted so he won't be hitting your turret either

The best way to abuse a kled is just to knock him off his mount run away so you can get your cool downs or use a pot then make him back or struggle to cs under turret and at that point he's free to gank

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Oh no, Kled can just, you know, with two of his spells get back more health than any of those options, then do those on top of it to not have to leave lane.

And if the best response you have to an enemy with incredibly overpowering 1v1 stats is beg for ganks, that's the issue. You're forgetting that it's just as likely he got you just as low as it took for him to get unmounted, and unlike you he has the option to heal back up if he decides to keep fighting.

OR, he can just recall and come back with more HP than you even if you back and get a ruby crystal.

Warlord Rhinark2 votes

Mate you've already made this post once before:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8w3AZn5r-kled-is-guaranteed-between-100-1000-based-on-level-more-hp-than-anyone-with-the-same-items

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A81Hc45q,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-08-14T08:04:19.432+0000)

Mate you've already made this post once before:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8w3AZn5r-kled-is-guaranteed-between-100-1000-based-on-level-more-hp-than-anyone-with-the-same-items

But not with the math to back it up. And there's a rule about old threads.

im still toxic1 votes

Thank god the champion sucks.

Lumbridge Goblin1 votes

From what I'm reading you just don't seem to know Kled very well.

Making violent tendencies activatable would make him beyond busted, regardless of how much "free" health you cut from him. VT is his bread and butter ability, Kled as a champion revolves everything from all ins and burst trading to wave manipulation around this particular ability. In lane, Kled has to use it to last hit. That gives your opponent at rank 3 around 14-10 seconds to punish you, unless you've manipulated the wave to such a degree that going in on you is suicide.

A competent Kled will try to save VT for the moment he hits his level 3 or level 4 powerspike, and use this to trade assuming that he isn't jumping into a decently sized wave. Making it activatable means two things; 1 - Going in on kled mounted is not a good idea 2 - going in on kled unmounted is an even worse idea

You restore 15 courage from attacking champions, 4 for last hits, 5 per pellet on your pocket pistol. Normally once Kled is unmounted, it's a simple matter of waiting for him to use VT, then going in on him because there's no way in hell that he's getting off 6 auto attacks and a double pellet pocket pistol before he dies. If VT was activatable, then he could simply poke/lasthit with pistol. You couldn't go in on him, because the moment you did he'd get back 60 courage immediately. VT not being activatable provides counterplay and something to play around.

I wouldn't change Kled at the moment. He's very healthy for the game as far as I'm concerned.

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