@Meddler Are you happy with the ninja nerf to Elise's heal at patch 5.12?

CatSith·Jun 29, 2015·39 votes·1,879 views

You guys literally nerfed her heal right before its official release. Didn't even wait to see how well it pans out. Who decides these changes that happen with no testing involved? Because this is literally a slap to the face for Elise players. You guys said so yourself you prefer to wait and see approach before nerfing a champion but this was rushed why?

I don't see how 4/6/8/10 + 15% was an overpowered heal. Elise couldn't even build enough ap to the point where she heals 100 per hit without rappel's buff, and if she did she would be too squishy to even use the heal long enough to survive. She literally is the squishiest melee mage in league and her heal was her only sustain.

It can even be countered by , like all the other healing champions .

32 Comments

LankPantsJun 29, 201525 votes

I think it was 5/10/15/20 + 15% at one point, then Riot remembered that they want Elise to be the single worst champion in the game.

TourianJun 29, 20151 votes

All the upvotes!

ChargeItDownMidJun 29, 201511 votes

[deleted]

JimmyNtheKudosJun 29, 20156 votes

I hate people who say this, I really do. Over-nerfing leads to basically taking champs out of the game, it's just as bad as wait and see. It would simply be 100x better to TEST these changes before implementing them.

ChargeItDownMidJun 29, 20152 votes

[deleted]

LankPantsJun 30, 20151 votes

To be fair Riot has waited on Elise for 6 months now, it's crystal clear she needed help.

Did they give her any? I really don't think these changes helped Elise at all, I think the heal change was actually a small nerf and the E bonus is way to situational to help her at all.

khorneyJun 29, 20152 votes

no fckn shyt even with me getting nashors tooth and botrk i get raped

ProfDrDeathJun 29, 20152 votes

If you're complaining about not being able to get enough AP, please wait till 5.13 hits.

In that patch, all of Elise's core AP items are buffed (+30 AP for Liandry's, better slow on Rylai's, +10 AP on Void Staff).

3TWarriorJun 29, 20151 votes

what about sated devourer? it literally adds 50% damage to all effects she has or in essence, doubles her burst every second hit

in spider form, with 2 auto attack hits and same for 5 spiders, masteries and nashors, you hit for a total of 3.7 AP ratio and bonus magic damage

Hard4HamstersJun 29, 20154 votes

Full AP Elise. Legendary.

Everybody talking about Sated Devourer like its going to make every champ with an on hit effect OP as shit. While it gives shit combat stats for Elise, particularly while you are stacking it.

3TWarriorJun 29, 20151 votes

it doesn't actually have to provide any beneficial stats when it provides attack speed(beneficial to spider form) and magic damage

then it doubles her burst damage every second hit. even built tanky, that only cuts that AP ratio by .45, so 3.25 ap ratio in 2 seconds is very deadly

think about trinity force and sheen...no one really needs the minute amount of stats it provides, but they get them for the damage spike

also, I hate to bring it up, but now full AP akali will get double magic damage applied to her second auto attack

as for the "stacking it" part, elise doesn't need stats to stack because her spiders are her majority of damage and sustain and all of her spider form spells are free, so she can initiate with a spell, draw the monster aggro, change to spider form and clear them in an instant while regenerating hp

Hard4HamstersJun 29, 20151 votes

Still it takes 25 minutes of game time spent farming before she will be of any use for her team, which is completely counter to what you want to do as Elise as her early game is really all she has right now. Trinity force/sheen is a damage spike when you buy the item whereas you only get the power of Sated Devourer at 30 stacks.

full AP akali implies that you are building FULL AP, not attack speed and damage on hit first item while you delay the rest of your build. You DO NOT get Sated Devourer when you buy it. You have to stack it, meaning you have to be able to make GOOD use out of Devourer already if you plan on building it to EVENTUALLY get the damage boost from its Sated state.

TourianJun 29, 20152 votes

Building Devourer on an early pressure ganker who is literally geared for level 3-5. Further investing attack speed with nashors on elise. You've never played this champion have you?

LankPantsJun 30, 20151 votes

Building Devourer on an early pressure ganker who is literally geared for level 3-5. Further investing attack speed with nashors on elise.

Personally I've only ever got a jungle item pre 6 once, and that was an incredibly odd circumstance. Building Devourer will probably be fine on Elise since she's already started to fall off by the time you can afford it anyway and it gives her a spike into mid/late game that might just help her stay relevant.

I'd agree that Nashor's isn't the best item though. I did try it a couple of times after this update and it just leaves you too squishy if you want to get any damage for it.

TourianJun 29, 20151 votes

Rylai's and Void should be pretty decent, but if you're actually building Liandry's on her still, that's a bigger problem. The percentage shred of Void and even the new abyssal are so much more effective in the current meta. From what I've tested on the PBE it seems like Heimers turrets get the new Rylai minion slow, but spiderlings dont, which if it stays that way will be pretty shitty on riots end.

LankPantsJun 30, 20151 votes

the new abyssal

That's not going live any time soon.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/05/red-post-collection-ssw-tpa-fnc-skt.html

Also because of the way how percent and flat pen interact buying percentage pen or shred makes your flat pen more effective.

ie. If you're hitting a target with 120 MR and you have Abyssal, Void, Haunting Guise and Sorcs

Abyssal applies first, reducing them to 100 MR
Void applies, reducing them to 65 MR
Sorcs/Guise apply, reducing them to 35 MR

OrokiyamJun 29, 20152 votes

What? Elise is supposed to heal? XD

But srsly they need to buff the heal. Do it Rito, buff the heal.

Buff. The. Heal.

Silents429Jun 29, 20151 votes

Apart from the fact they have more changes coming for her in the future, they are also buffing a bunch of items she commonly uses, so they need to make changes with those in mind.

CatSithJun 29, 20152 votes

The items won't make a big difference because of her scaling.

Silents429Jun 29, 20151 votes

Well the very first line I say she, is she will have more changes coming.

CatSithJun 29, 20151 votes

They never said there was more changes were coming after her recent 5.12 change. But meddler replied to another thread yesterday about talking to the balance team.

Silents429Jun 29, 20151 votes

Meddler mentioned there would be followup changes but he was unaware of what they were, or what direction they planned to go.

CatSithJun 29, 20151 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/njJqWoUJ-meddler-are-there-more-changes-coming-for-elise

There.

Silents429Jun 29, 20151 votes

I'll have to get back to you about Elise tomorrow once I've had a chance to get some thoughts from the balance team. I know their intent was that 5.12 would be a buff for her (kit changes and Runeglaive), I'm not sure what their thoughts on follow up changes are however so will need to pick their brains.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Zluwihvk-riotmeddler-elise-players-are-grieving-can-we-talk-about-her

More recent.

CatSithJun 30, 20151 votes

Yeah i said that already

CatSith (NA) - about 8 hours ago They never said there was more changes were coming after her recent 5.12 change.** But meddler replied to another thread yesterday about talking to the balance team.**

bradJun 29, 20151 votes

literally a slap in the face to elise players riot literally, as an entire company, took their hand, and slapped you and everyone who plays elise right across the face literally

TourianJun 29, 20151 votes

Literally?

JimmyNtheKudosJun 29, 20151 votes

Literally.

TourianJun 29, 20151 votes

I literally just shit my pants. (wait that one is literally possible)

DecritJun 29, 20151 votes

A Riot squad crashed in you room and literally gave you a slap in the face?

badoogaJun 29, 20151 votes

You forgot Aatrox and Galio ... T-T

Mr Sir LebowskiJun 29, 20151 votes

The buff to the AP items is not going to change almost anything for her. All other AP users of the same items will receive the same buffs and if you have ever tried to build nothing but AP on her you will notice she still doesn't do enough damage. 30-100 more AP even will not be enough to fix her crappy kit.