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New Passive for All Ranged Autos. My Most Sincere Thread Ever. The Champ I want to Play

Woook3r··1 votes·639 views

Ok. So I actually like adc. My favorite console game was halo. I liked kiting people in that fps and leading them into traps. League doesnt do enough to support tactical planning and the setting up of nice situations to take advantage of imo, but adc does that the best.

I wish running around corners while being chased could result in the smart use of a skill based mechanic to pull off solo ambush. In halo a great strat was to run around a corner and turn around a 2v1 situation by dropping a timed explosive near a corner your pursuers would have to pass by.

If they wait out the explosion then you get away. If they go through, they might make it past the grenade and reach you in time, or the grenade might go off in their face and they both die. That was an awesome feelign to get doubles like that in halo 1-2-3 because it was your expert skill and timing and manipulation of your opponents positioning.

I wish adc's could kite and do things like this. Instead, they start the game with some of the lowest base movespeeds and characters with heavy armor actually move faster like Olaf.. I want a light fast ranged class that is very elusive, deals dps, and can set up ambushes where the enemy has the choice to call your bluff and spring trap or let you get away. And I think that the reason the adc isnt like that is because they do too much tower dmg and they cant be given a way to turn around engagements. Otherwise a skilled adc can just wreck the entire system of the game by splitting and dueling any 1 or 2 people that go to catch the adc. I agree this would be bad.

I honestly just think they could nerf the adc's dmg to towers instead of trying to balance the game by making adc's pathetic in their own right. Let mage autos deal magic dmg and buff tower armor and physical dmg dealers dont do much to towers anymore. However, that would nerf all the best splitters as they are phyical based. The better option is to just cheat and give ranged autos a passive where they do less dmg. Seriously tho whens the last time an arrow knocked a building down? Never. Its not cheating that much. Just nerf the adc's tower taking mechanic and make them more independent. Im tired of being helpless without massive peel.

So make a replacement item that gives you tower dps and dont tell me its going to look like zzrot portal. It needs to be ranged not creep spawing mechanics. Lets have a new class of support items called saboture items. They take objectives and a new summoner spell for supports that lets them use those items. Like smite and mechete. You can call it sunder and morter shell.

Proposed compensation to adc's? Buff all adc's range slightly and make adc's have the highest average move speed in the game. So adcs are a dps ranged physical dmg in teamfights and supports drive the objective game along with jg's. Sunder is a smite that applies to towers. LIke a tower version of smite. Get it? Supports more impactful. Adc's Less impactful. Adc's more independent less mandatory..

31 Comments

Only Play Darius6 votes

No.

Woook3r2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A2GV4i15,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-13T22:14:16.015+0000)

No.

I know you cant read that fast. Also reported for lack of clarity. Useless comment.

MilfHuntUnitXJ92 votes

No.

Cowgirl Ed3 votes

lol what a stupid post

The Whamboozler3 votes

Ranged champs (not just adcs) have some of the lowest movement speeds in the game for game balance reasons. They get free shots on melee champs as those champs are closing with them. They're usually good at kiting and slowing down or evading melee champs as well to keep themselves safe. Melee champions already have a difficult time getting to adc's who position well and kite well. So basically you want a champ that moves faster than the short-ranged champions that absolutely NEED to get up to you to do ANYTHING... and who does some of the best damage in the game? That would be insanely broken, dude.

I understand the argument that a lightly armored person probably runs faster than a big beefy jerk in plate mail (not always true, but I get it). I understand the desire to play a swift, deadly archer or skirmisher. But it's a game balance thing. Melee champs are faster because they need to be to be viable. If you want to play an ADC who feels fast and mobile... play Kalista. Ezreal , Caitlyn , Graves , Corki , Lucian and Tristana all have dashes or movement abilities. Sivir has two different move speed boosts... one on-hit and one on her ult. Quinn also gets move speed on her ult and her E lets her be nimble and flip away from incoming opponents. It's harder to list the adc's who LACK mobility than the ones who have it. So what is your issue exactly?

League isn't a FPS. You can re-create the scenario you mentioned though. Bait an enemy into a bush with a waiting ally... or into a teemo shroom. Into jumping a wall to follow you while you hop back over and your team engages their team 4v5 while the poor greedy fool that chased you has to walk the long way around and misses the fight. All of these things can and DO happen in games. But what you're talking about is removing the primary purpose for adc's. ADC champs are in the game to push towers. Not to win teamfights. Not to control objectives. Not to splitpush... at least not really. CAN adc's do these things? Yeah. Are they good at these things? Sometimes. But they tear towers better than nearly any other role. Since the point of the game is to wreck the enemy's base, they are vital.

If your point is to remove the need for adcs in the game... I guess I get that. They're mandatory in nearly every game. Because that's what that would do. Taking away one of their biggest strengths... THE REASON THEY'RE MANDATORY IN THE FIRST PLACE... that would just mean you hardly ever see adc's. Mages would dominate bot lane... poking champs out from tower and then pushing hard. The fun "FPS plays" you want to make wouldn't happen... since Xerath doesn't NEED to chase you to kill you. He won't walk into that bomb you planted. He'll blast you to low health and then push his lane. If you come back to try and fight him, you're dead. If you're so mobile that you can dodge all of his abilities and blow him away you're NOT an adc... you're an assassin. That's their thing.

TL: DR: Your idea would completely alter the way the game works. You can make the kind of "fun FPS plays" you mentioned with any champ, adc's included. There are a TON of mobile adc's you can pick if you dislike being slow. Or you can play assassins... the most mobile role in the game. The game doesn't need to have several years of balance shoved aside because you think it will let you recreate a trick you like to do in Halo that you can already do in the game as it is! Leave game balance to the people who understand how it works.

TL:DR the TL: DR: Your idea is stupid and it is highly likely you are as well.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

Ranged champs (not just adcs) have some of the lowest movement speeds in the game for game balance reasons. They get free shots on melee champs as those champs are closing with them. They're usually good at kiting and slowing down or evading melee champs as well to keep themselves safe. Melee champions already have a difficult time getting to adc's who position well and kite well. So basically you want a champ that moves faster than the short-ranged champions that absolutely NEED to get up to you to do ANYTHING... and who does some of the best damage in the game? That would be insanely broken, dude.

I understand the argument that a lightly armored person probably runs faster than a big beefy jerk in plate mail (not always true, but I get it). I understand the desire to play a swift, deadly archer or skirmisher. But it's a game balance thing. Melee champs are faster because they need to be to be viable. If you want to play an ADC who feels fast and mobile... play Kalista. Ezreal , Caitlyn , Graves , Corki , Lucian and Tristana all have dashes or movement abilities. Sivir has two different move speed boosts... one on-hit and one on her ult. Quinn also gets move speed on her ult and her E lets her be nimble and flip away from incoming opponents. It's harder to list the adc's who LACK mobility than the ones who have it. So what is your issue exactly?

League isn't a FPS. You can re-create the scenario you mentioned though. Bait an enemy into a bush with a waiting ally... or into a teemo shroom. Into jumping a wall to follow you while you hop back over and your team engages their team 4v5 while the poor greedy fool that chased you has to walk the long way around and misses the fight. All of these things can and DO happen in games. But what you're talking about is removing the primary purpose for adc's. ADC champs are in the game to push towers. Not to win teamfights. Not to control objectives. Not to splitpush... at least not really. CAN adc's do these things? Yeah. Are they good at these things? Sometimes. But they tear towers better than nearly any other role. Since the point of the game is to wreck the enemy's base, they are vital.

If your point is to remove the need for adcs in the game... I guess I get that. They're mandatory in nearly every game. Because that's what that would do. Taking away one of their biggest strengths... THE REASON THEY'RE MANDATORY IN THE FIRST PLACE... that would just mean you hardly ever see adc's. Mages would dominate bot lane... poking champs out from tower and then pushing hard. The fun "FPS plays" you want to make wouldn't happen... since Xerath doesn't NEED to chase you to kill you. He won't walk into that bomb you planted. He'll blast you to low health and then push his lane. If you come back to try and fight him, you're dead. If you're so mobile that you can dodge all of his abilities and blow him away you're NOT an adc... you're an assassin. That's their thing.

TL: DR: Your idea would completely alter the way the game works. You can make the kind of "fun FPS plays" you mentioned with any champ, adc's included. There are a TON of mobile adc's you can pick if you dislike being slow. Or you can play assassins... the most mobile role in the game. The game doesn't need to have several years of balance shoved aside because you think it will let you recreate a trick you like to do in Halo that you can already do in the game as it is! Leave game balance to the people who understand how it works.

TL:DR the TL: DR: Your idea is stupid and it is highly likely you are as well.

I just want to start out by saying that this was really offensive. I am actually very smart. I have a degree in physics and am a TA at my university. Not only that I have probably done more for my fellow man than the average person. I volunteer to pick up trash in my neighborhood. Dont be personally disrespectful to people you dont know. Really, how offensive do you think you have to be to get your point across?

Second, gap closers are great for melees who want to attack a ranged carry. Look at all the divers in this game. Hecarim. Jax. Irelia. Rengar. Shaco. Fiora. Ekko. Zed. Lee Sin. There are more champs with gap closers than there are adc's. Sometimes there are more than one of these champions in a single game because murdering the adc is just so popular. You want to complain that its impossible to reach an adc, take hecarim.

If ranged dmg is so over powered, then tell me why all of real world military combat isnt just sniper to sniper. Its because it isnt realistic. You need tanky immoble people to set up the battle field. Melees with gap closers will never become obsolete because you can load their kits with front loaded hard cc (Riot has already done this). If I wanted to unbalance adc's I would be asking for all gap closers to be removed. I am asking for more counter play in situations where I am being constantly dived upon.

stuartk111 votes

There are many ADCs in the game that have their own gap-closers aswell. We have seen times where tanky champions have been made less tanky, and the ranged damage did prove to be overbearing. There really isn't much of the "setting up the battlefield" style of gameplay (with the exception of maybe Heimerdinger). There is a line to be drawn in comparing a real-world battlefield to a fantasy-style Moba.

On the other hand, I am surprised at how aggressive this guy was in his post, and the fact that he is getting upvotes is absurd. And the increase in the number of champions who have gapclosers is what some people call "mobility creep". Whether or not it is really a concern, or even true, is an argument for another thread.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

There are many ADCs in the game that have their own gap-closers aswell. We have seen times where tanky champions have been made less tanky, and the ranged damage did prove to be overbearing. There really isn't much of the "setting up the battlefield" style of gameplay (with the exception of maybe Heimerdinger). There is a line to be drawn in comparing a real-world battlefield to a fantasy-style Moba.

On the other hand, I am surprised at how aggressive this guy was in his post, and the fact that he is getting upvotes is absurd. And the increase in the number of champions who have gapclosers is what some people call "mobility creep". Whether or not it is really a concern, or even true, is an argument for another thread.

I actually like mobility creep. Despite the fact that I am an adc main. I think it makes the game more fun and faster paced. But as you said, thats another thread.

I want to reiterate something I said in reply to dietrix. I think that the inherant weakness of the adc should be that of dps from autos vs burst from abilities. You can kill an adc during their dmg dealing phase whereas annie does all her dmg and once and is spent. I dont think that there should be this contrived dependence on complete strangers for peel that essential determines how much fun the adc will have in the game. I think that the adc should deal less dps but have the mobility to discourage immediate assassination. When draven does 3k dmg in a quarter of a second i think its a little much. I just like laning with him really. I cant stand his lategame except that I can actually duel some of the poorer riven players at times when they dont manage all of their cooldowns properly. I think vayne could be really balanced if she did less dps but got the night hunter ms boost no mater the direction she moves in. However, Im not saying we should change her. And I really think the 90% ad nerf to kalista was a good thing to do. I dont play her in bronze however because of how reliant she is on her support binding partner. I guess ill have to reconsider the notion that adcs are gimped because of there objective game. Ive been flamed pretty hard.

The Whamboozler1 votes

{quoted}

I just want to start out by saying that this was really offensive. I am actually very smart. I have a degree in physics and am a TA at my university. Not only that I have probably done more for my fellow man than the average person. I volunteer to pick up trash in my neighborhood. Dont be personally disrespectful to people you dont know. Really, how offensive do you think you have to be to get your point across?

Second, gap closers are great for melees who want to attack a ranged carry. Look at all the divers in this game. Hecarim. Jax. Irelia. Rengar. Shaco. Fiora. Ekko. Zed. Lee Sin. There are more champs with gap closers than there are adc's. Sometimes there are more than one of these champions in a single game because murdering the adc is just so popular. You want to complain that its impossible to reach an adc, take hecarim.

If ranged dmg is so over powered, then tell me why all of real world military combat isnt just sniper to sniper. Its because it isnt realistic. You need tanky immoble people to set up the battle field. Melees with gap closers will never become obsolete because you can load their kits with front loaded hard cc (Riot has already done this). If I wanted to unbalance adc's I would be asking for all gap closers to be removed. I am asking for more counter play in situations where I am being constantly dived upon.

I didn't say adc's were overpowered. I said they were vital to the success of the team. Why? Because they push towers well. If you take that away from them, you would be completely changing one of the only reasons they're important to the game. It would be as if you said "I'm tired of my tank not doing any damage... can I make him do damage, and from farther away then melee range?". That exists... it's not called a tank.

You want to change a part of the game that is both inherent and very important to the game to fit some fantasy you have of bombing two people in halo... a drastically different kind of game with different gameplay and balancing factors. Smart or not you don't seem to understand game design and why things work they way they do and how drastically changing them would affect the game and every other role. Picking up trash or being a TA doesn't make you qualified to handle game balance any more than me having a degree in culinary arts would help me design a rocket ship. It's entirely unrelated... and seemed needlessly boastful.

Your idea is bad. End of story. It would never work from a game-design standpoint. That is all there is to it.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

I didn't say adc's were overpowered. I said they were vital to the success of the team. Why? Because they push towers well. If you take that away from them, you would be completely changing one of the only reasons they're important to the game. It would be as if you said "I'm tired of my tank not doing any damage... can I make him do damage, and from farther away then melee range?". That exists... it's not called a tank.

You want to change a part of the game that is both inherent and very important to the game to fit some fantasy you have of bombing two people in halo... a drastically different kind of game with different gameplay and balancing factors. Smart or not you don't seem to understand game design and why things work they way they do and how drastically changing them would affect the game and every other role. Picking up trash or being a TA doesn't make you qualified to handle game balance any more than me having a degree in culinary arts would help me design a rocket ship. It's entirely unrelated... and seemed needlessly boastful.

Your idea is bad. End of story. It would never work from a game-design standpoint. That is all there is to it.

You are really really obsessing over this halo example I brought up. Its really just an idea that I had.

Now the part where you said im tired of my tank not doing dmg. That sounds a lot like the range increase they are doing to darius while giving him a 200 bonus ad passive. Soooooooo....lol? He specs fully tank, and does a shit ton of dmg from farther away. Just lol

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

I didn't say adc's were overpowered. I said they were vital to the success of the team. Why? Because they push towers well. If you take that away from them, you would be completely changing one of the only reasons they're important to the game. It would be as if you said "I'm tired of my tank not doing any damage... can I make him do damage, and from farther away then melee range?". That exists... it's not called a tank.

You want to change a part of the game that is both inherent and very important to the game to fit some fantasy you have of bombing two people in halo... a drastically different kind of game with different gameplay and balancing factors. Smart or not you don't seem to understand game design and why things work they way they do and how drastically changing them would affect the game and every other role. Picking up trash or being a TA doesn't make you qualified to handle game balance any more than me having a degree in culinary arts would help me design a rocket ship. It's entirely unrelated... and seemed needlessly boastful.

Your idea is bad. End of story. It would never work from a game-design standpoint. That is all there is to it.

I think adc's are important to the game because they are fun to play and fun in lane. Its not about ok unload my dmg here and run away till I can do it again. Its a constant struggle to maximize your dps. Thats fun to me. Fun is important to the game--->ADC's are important to the game. I have a ton of fun with adc's. I just wish I was more independent and am saying that I would sacrifice dps for more independence.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

I didn't say adc's were overpowered. I said they were vital to the success of the team. Why? Because they push towers well. If you take that away from them, you would be completely changing one of the only reasons they're important to the game. It would be as if you said "I'm tired of my tank not doing any damage... can I make him do damage, and from farther away then melee range?". That exists... it's not called a tank.

You want to change a part of the game that is both inherent and very important to the game to fit some fantasy you have of bombing two people in halo... a drastically different kind of game with different gameplay and balancing factors. Smart or not you don't seem to understand game design and why things work they way they do and how drastically changing them would affect the game and every other role. Picking up trash or being a TA doesn't make you qualified to handle game balance any more than me having a degree in culinary arts would help me design a rocket ship. It's entirely unrelated... and seemed needlessly boastful.

Your idea is bad. End of story. It would never work from a game-design standpoint. That is all there is to it.

Here Ill fix that for you " being a TA doesn't make you qualified to handle game balance any more than me having a degree in culinary arts makes me qualified to call your idea about game design stupid".

The Whamboozler1 votes

{quoted}

Here Ill fix that for you " being a TA doesn't make you qualified to handle game balance any more than me having a degree in culinary arts makes me qualified to call your idea about game design stupid".

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this thread at all, really. You want to diminish the ability of adcs to do the primary thing adc's are in the game to do. In return you want... what? "Independence" isn't really a game mechanic. You want to splitpush as an adc? Have you ever played Quinn top? Did you want to duel? Vayne is an excellent 1v1 duelist. You want to drop AoE damage in teamfights? Jinx says hi. Burst like an assassin? Graves unloads a lot of damageat once early-game.

There are adc's that can do all these things. Explain exactly what you want here. You suggested removing some of their ability to do tower-damage to gain... what? To make them tankier? More mobile? What do you want? The game isn't an FPS. It's a MOBA. In most FPS you can't raise your status over the course of the game... adding power to your guns or buying armor. League is a 5 player TEAM game that is won by making coordinated attacks on the enemy base to break in and ruin it. If you want to run around solo splitpushing, racking up double kills, ambushing people who are alone or baiting people into traps and unfavorable fights.. go for it! Those are all valid strategies that nearly any champ can attempt. Some are better than others at it though. Play an assassin. That's their bread and butter.

Adc's are NOT a solo role. By taking away their strengths to make them more able to solo play you not only defeat the point of a TEAM game, but you'd make adc's rather pointless OR absurdly OP. If you increase their defenses even if they still build all damage... then they're broken. Even with a loss to tower damage... adc's put out a lot of damage in teamfights when played well. Giving them a safety net of extra durability is a crippling blow to assassins and anti-carry champs who can no longer do their jobs. It's ALSO a nut-punch to bruisers who also do good damage while being kinda tanky... since this new super adc does it at a RANGE, and thus with less risk. In one swoop you've made two other roles weaker to the point of possible uselessness.

Alternately, you want adc's to be more mobile so they can make "sweet FPS plays"? Well adc's are more often mobile, so this won't be AS crippling... but man... have you ever played Kalista ? If that isn't mobile enough for you, I shudder to think what you'd expect a mobile champ to be able to do. Of course, since he's still squishy and can't survive assassins and focused damage your hyper mobile adc is only really good at splitpushing and running away. Except you took away his tower damage, so not too great at splitpushing? Pretty sure that is a role filled by other champs already. Of course, without your sustained damage in fights, your team is likely to lose a 4v4 or 4v5 if the enemy all engages on them. Now they're rushing up mid while you struggle to take a tower. gg.

If I'm misreading what you want, please let me know... but it seems like you want to somehow make adcs into another role that already exists in the game. Why? Why not just play that role? Want to be a splitpushing jerk that ignores his team all game to shove a lane and wins most 1v1 duels if people come to stop him? Tryndamere is waiting for you. There is a champion in the game for nearly EVERYTHING you could want to do. Why alter an entire pile of champions and throw the things the game was balanced around in the toilet when you could just pick one of the champs who does what you want but doesn't happen to be labeled "marksman" in his write-up?

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this thread at all, really. You want to diminish the ability of adcs to do the primary thing adc's are in the game to do. In return you want... what? "Independence" isn't really a game mechanic. You want to splitpush as an adc? Have you ever played Quinn top? Did you want to duel? Vayne is an excellent 1v1 duelist. You want to drop AoE damage in teamfights? Jinx says hi. Burst like an assassin? Graves unloads a lot of damageat once early-game.

There are adc's that can do all these things. Explain exactly what you want here. You suggested removing some of their ability to do tower-damage to gain... what? To make them tankier? More mobile? What do you want? The game isn't an FPS. It's a MOBA. In most FPS you can't raise your status over the course of the game... adding power to your guns or buying armor. League is a 5 player TEAM game that is won by making coordinated attacks on the enemy base to break in and ruin it. If you want to run around solo splitpushing, racking up double kills, ambushing people who are alone or baiting people into traps and unfavorable fights.. go for it! Those are all valid strategies that nearly any champ can attempt. Some are better than others at it though. Play an assassin. That's their bread and butter.

Adc's are NOT a solo role. By taking away their strengths to make them more able to solo play you not only defeat the point of a TEAM game, but you'd make adc's rather pointless OR absurdly OP. If you increase their defenses even if they still build all damage... then they're broken. Even with a loss to tower damage... adc's put out a lot of damage in teamfights when played well. Giving them a safety net of extra durability is a crippling blow to assassins and anti-carry champs who can no longer do their jobs. It's ALSO a nut-punch to bruisers who also do good damage while being kinda tanky... since this new super adc does it at a RANGE, and thus with less risk. In one swoop you've made two other roles weaker to the point of possible uselessness.

Alternately, you want adc's to be more mobile so they can make "sweet FPS plays"? Well adc's are more often mobile, so this won't be AS crippling... but man... have you ever played Kalista ? If that isn't mobile enough for you, I shudder to think what you'd expect a mobile champ to be able to do. Of course, since he's still squishy and can't survive assassins and focused damage your hyper mobile adc is only really good at splitpushing and running away. Except you took away his tower damage, so not too great at splitpushing? Pretty sure that is a role filled by other champs already. Of course, without your sustained damage in fights, your team is likely to lose a 4v4 or 4v5 if the enemy all engages on them. Now they're rushing up mid while you struggle to take a tower. gg.

If I'm misreading what you want, please let me know... but it seems like you want to somehow make adcs into another role that already exists in the game. Why? Why not just play that role? Want to be a splitpushing jerk that ignores his team all game to shove a lane and wins most 1v1 duels if people come to stop him? Tryndamere is waiting for you. There is a champion in the game for nearly EVERYTHING you could want to do. Why alter an entire pile of champions and throw the things the game was balanced around in the toilet when you could just pick one of the champs who does what you want but doesn't happen to be labeled "marksman" in his write-up?

Faster move speed better kiting == More independent. Kalista is great at kiting however, her ultimate is useless with out a teammate. I just played a game as draven with Lulu support and the only time i ever got a fucking shield was when we were farming alone without an enemy champ in sight. Thats so useless and toxic. I dont want to be dependent on my support to have a good time playing this game. Sure i need teamwork to win. But to have a good time I should just be capable of doing that.. I just played a game that pissed me off. Why will I continue to do that? No I will maybe leave league.

I want to be better able to kite. Dont tell me its a lack of skill. You cant kite gragas or sejuani or darius btw if you get flash pulled.. Why should gragas be able to 1v1 a pure dmg dealer at most every point in the game? No idea what lulu was doing or why but she was only interested in giving me a shield when I was afk farming.. But gragas the fat man stuck to me like glue. Even when I had red buff. Thats so annoying. I need peel to kite? Why?

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this thread at all, really. You want to diminish the ability of adcs to do the primary thing adc's are in the game to do. In return you want... what? "Independence" isn't really a game mechanic. You want to splitpush as an adc? Have you ever played Quinn top? Did you want to duel? Vayne is an excellent 1v1 duelist. You want to drop AoE damage in teamfights? Jinx says hi. Burst like an assassin? Graves unloads a lot of damageat once early-game.

There are adc's that can do all these things. Explain exactly what you want here. You suggested removing some of their ability to do tower-damage to gain... what? To make them tankier? More mobile? What do you want? The game isn't an FPS. It's a MOBA. In most FPS you can't raise your status over the course of the game... adding power to your guns or buying armor. League is a 5 player TEAM game that is won by making coordinated attacks on the enemy base to break in and ruin it. If you want to run around solo splitpushing, racking up double kills, ambushing people who are alone or baiting people into traps and unfavorable fights.. go for it! Those are all valid strategies that nearly any champ can attempt. Some are better than others at it though. Play an assassin. That's their bread and butter.

Adc's are NOT a solo role. By taking away their strengths to make them more able to solo play you not only defeat the point of a TEAM game, but you'd make adc's rather pointless OR absurdly OP. If you increase their defenses even if they still build all damage... then they're broken. Even with a loss to tower damage... adc's put out a lot of damage in teamfights when played well. Giving them a safety net of extra durability is a crippling blow to assassins and anti-carry champs who can no longer do their jobs. It's ALSO a nut-punch to bruisers who also do good damage while being kinda tanky... since this new super adc does it at a RANGE, and thus with less risk. In one swoop you've made two other roles weaker to the point of possible uselessness.

Alternately, you want adc's to be more mobile so they can make "sweet FPS plays"? Well adc's are more often mobile, so this won't be AS crippling... but man... have you ever played Kalista ? If that isn't mobile enough for you, I shudder to think what you'd expect a mobile champ to be able to do. Of course, since he's still squishy and can't survive assassins and focused damage your hyper mobile adc is only really good at splitpushing and running away. Except you took away his tower damage, so not too great at splitpushing? Pretty sure that is a role filled by other champs already. Of course, without your sustained damage in fights, your team is likely to lose a 4v4 or 4v5 if the enemy all engages on them. Now they're rushing up mid while you struggle to take a tower. gg.

If I'm misreading what you want, please let me know... but it seems like you want to somehow make adcs into another role that already exists in the game. Why? Why not just play that role? Want to be a splitpushing jerk that ignores his team all game to shove a lane and wins most 1v1 duels if people come to stop him? Tryndamere is waiting for you. There is a champion in the game for nearly EVERYTHING you could want to do. Why alter an entire pile of champions and throw the things the game was balanced around in the toilet when you could just pick one of the champs who does what you want but doesn't happen to be labeled "marksman" in his write-up?

take a chill pill man

Woook3r1 votes

In case I wasnt clearly showing what I meant by champ I want to play. Its basically Master Chief with a battle rifle and some grenades to set up turning dynamics. I want to use rhythm and timing and short term positional planning with an elusive playstyle.

stuartk111 votes

So, ADCs should have the highest damage and movement speed on the team? Man, can you imagine how annoying Ashe would be if she had one of the highest movement speeds in the game.

The strongest part of ADCs is their large consistent damage. It's why they are so strong at demolishing front-liners. Their ability to take turrets is probably second (still debatable). Entire teams are built around the ADC, whether it be their choice of champion, or peeling for them, setting up picks, shields, heals, or donating gold where-ever possible, the ADC is the most relevant part of any team comp. I doubt that they need buffs, especially with more range AND movement speed.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

So, ADCs should have the highest damage and movement speed on the team? Man, can you imagine how annoying Ashe would be if she had one of the highest movement speeds in the game.

The strongest part of ADCs is their large consistent damage. It's why they are so strong at demolishing front-liners. Their ability to take turrets is probably second (still debatable). Entire teams are built around the ADC, whether it be their choice of champion, or peeling for them, setting up picks, shields, heals, or donating gold where-ever possible, the ADC is the most relevant part of any team comp. I doubt that they need buffs, especially with more range AND movement speed.

I think that adc stands for Attack Dmg Carry. So yes, I do think that they should have some of the highest dmg in the game right along with the apc or mage. I would really enjoy some additional fight turning mechanics tho. Like in halo, where people run a risk when chasing me in certain situations.

Right now, in my games it feels like there is little to no risk involved when diving the adcs I like to play. Or, it feels like my front like is strong enough at killing their carries that I just need to let them take the kills and live to destroy a tower or dragon. Occasionally, there is a feeling that I really did a lot to make the fight go our way and its really fun. But thats a very small sub set of the games where my front line is already doing reasonably well. So my point is that I am only ever helping my team win HARDER THAN THEY ALREADY ARE...OR...I die immediately. I dont feel any ability to turn a fight around in 80-90% of my games.

stuartk111 votes

I was never debating that ADCs should deal less damage. I am opposed to your suggestions as a healthy addition to the game, just to clear up confusion.

Diving ADCs past any resemblance of a front line should actually be quite difficult, and hardly risk-free. You need to have excellent positioning if you are going to play a carry for your team. You should be able to deal good damage in most team-fights once if hits mid game aswell, so there really isn't much excuse for doing nothing in a team-fight if you are both in range and not being touched by the enemy team.

If you are looking for a Moba style game that involves turning mechanics, though, then you should try DotA. But remember that this is not supposed to be like Halo. It's not an FPS, it's League of Legends. Its own thing. If you can't turn around a fight, then either your itemization isn't optimal, your gold gain has been lackluster (happens to us all), or your positioning is poor.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

I was never debating that ADCs should deal less damage. I am opposed to your suggestions as a healthy addition to the game, just to clear up confusion.

Diving ADCs past any resemblance of a front line should actually be quite difficult, and hardly risk-free. You need to have excellent positioning if you are going to play a carry for your team. You should be able to deal good damage in most team-fights once if hits mid game aswell, so there really isn't much excuse for doing nothing in a team-fight if you are both in range and not being touched by the enemy team.

If you are looking for a Moba style game that involves turning mechanics, though, then you should try DotA. But remember that this is not supposed to be like Halo. It's not an FPS, it's League of Legends. Its own thing. If you can't turn around a fight, then either your itemization isn't optimal, your gold gain has been lackluster (happens to us all), or your positioning is poor.

I feel like this is a good direction to go in. Maybe you can help me understand a better way to think about this.

Right now, in my elo, it is VERY easy to dive me when I play draven for instance. Draven has 550 range and no hard escape. I will position behind everyone in my team and when the fighting starts I will usually hit q and try to deal dmg to a tank bc they are close. Then I will get ulted by nautilus. And their entire team will dive me. While my team jerks off in a bush.

Or, or, Jax will start spinnign his cane and jump to me from 900 units away and I die instantly. Thats really far btw. He only had to be 400 units behind nautilus in order to do this to me. I was an entire screen away from jax. Where was I suppposed to position in that situation? Inside my fountain?

What about irelia? She is really fast btw. Even if I am outside her dash range and running away from her with a phantom dancer or shiv she will catch me. If irelia wants to dive me and my annie or my support has already blown their stun I am dead meat because I have no counterplay. Not only am I zoned from the fight, so that I cant do dmg, I will not manage to survive even in full retreat.

Zed has potentially three gap closers and can instakill me from over a wall or the fog of war. Wheres my positional counterplay? In champ select where I should have picked corkie or tristana or vayne? Ill admit, vayne can be oppressive, but so can renekton. And terribly so because he cannot be killed..too much hp for burst dmg, thornmail means the adc kills itself, plus mobility and sustain in a teamfight. Oh and some hard cc to boot. that's what a fed renekton looks like. You can always focus the adc down with cc and group fire. Fed ADC's die all the time because they are too susceptible to burst.

So I dont know why we dont get rid of the added carry potential of the adc which stems from their objective taking and make them more fun to play in an every man for himself solo q environment.

stuartk111 votes

Draven is actually one of the hardest ADCs to play because of his lack of mobility and low range auto-attacks. The best thing to do is to make sure you stay close to some sort of team-mate. While it would be easy to say that you could stay out Nautilus's range, that's not always practical. If you get his ultimate headed your way, then you should retreat far back, even flashing if you need to. Essentially, you should always be quite close to a team-mate, and have your team should have descent ward placement to help prevent easy flanks from enemy assassins from getting to you. As Draven, if you see a Jax or other such champion leaping towards you, then use your E to knock them back mid-leap if possible. It's tricky though, and you would be reliant on your team-mates to some degree in order to be successful. They need to be their to help peel opponents, disengage where appropriate, disrupt the enemy in a fight, focusing the opposing carries, warding to help block assassins etc.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

Draven is actually one of the hardest ADCs to play because of his lack of mobility and low range auto-attacks. The best thing to do is to make sure you stay close to some sort of team-mate. While it would be easy to say that you could stay out Nautilus's range, that's not always practical. If you get his ultimate headed your way, then you should retreat far back, even flashing if you need to. Essentially, you should always be quite close to a team-mate, and have your team should have descent ward placement to help prevent easy flanks from enemy assassins from getting to you. As Draven, if you see a Jax or other such champion leaping towards you, then use your E to knock them back mid-leap if possible. It's tricky though, and you would be reliant on your team-mates to some degree in order to be successful. They need to be their to help peel opponents, disengage where appropriate, disrupt the enemy in a fight, focusing the opposing carries, warding to help block assassins etc.

My e goes right through jax. I have many times timed this perfectly to collide with him mid flight and my e does not stop his gap closer. Maybe this is a bug.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

Draven is actually one of the hardest ADCs to play because of his lack of mobility and low range auto-attacks. The best thing to do is to make sure you stay close to some sort of team-mate. While it would be easy to say that you could stay out Nautilus's range, that's not always practical. If you get his ultimate headed your way, then you should retreat far back, even flashing if you need to. Essentially, you should always be quite close to a team-mate, and have your team should have descent ward placement to help prevent easy flanks from enemy assassins from getting to you. As Draven, if you see a Jax or other such champion leaping towards you, then use your E to knock them back mid-leap if possible. It's tricky though, and you would be reliant on your team-mates to some degree in order to be successful. They need to be their to help peel opponents, disengage where appropriate, disrupt the enemy in a fight, focusing the opposing carries, warding to help block assassins etc.

Tell me honestly why you should ever have to rely on strangers to play this game.

stuartk111 votes

It is a team-based game, so synergy between team-mates should be essential to high-level gameplay. It's not a typical single-player game, where each player just does their own thing. Working with your team makes it a hell of a lot easier to do well in a game.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

It is a team-based game, so synergy between team-mates should be essential to high-level gameplay. It's not a typical single-player game, where each player just does their own thing. Working with your team makes it a hell of a lot easier to do well in a game.

True. But I still feel like all of the skills i have acquired with draven are going to waste in bronze. Its very disappointing. I am feeling very vulnerable to trolly teammates in my elo and I think I have to pick up more roles which is fine, but I still like to play kog and jinx and draven.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

I think that adc stands for Attack Dmg Carry. So yes, I do think that they should have some of the highest dmg in the game right along with the apc or mage. I would really enjoy some additional fight turning mechanics tho. Like in halo, where people run a risk when chasing me in certain situations.

Right now, in my games it feels like there is little to no risk involved when diving the adcs I like to play. Or, it feels like my front like is strong enough at killing their carries that I just need to let them take the kills and live to destroy a tower or dragon. Occasionally, there is a feeling that I really did a lot to make the fight go our way and its really fun. But thats a very small sub set of the games where my front line is already doing reasonably well. So my point is that I am only ever helping my team win HARDER THAN THEY ALREADY ARE...OR...I die immediately. I dont feel any ability to turn a fight around in 80-90% of my games.

Also, the problem that I have a lot of the time is that I dont get donated gold. I dont get peel. I dont get teamwork, and adc's are balanced around the fact that higher elo adc's will get these things. Additionally, there is a class of assasins and burst mages in this game whos bread and butter is to destroy the adc. Its not so much that the adc has clear and inherant weaknesses, its that they have enemies that are designed to kill them with relative ease.

The Whamboozler1 votes

{quoted}

Also, the problem that I have a lot of the time is that I dont get donated gold. I dont get peel. I dont get teamwork, and adc's are balanced around the fact that higher elo adc's will get these things. Additionally, there is a class of assasins and burst mages in this game whos bread and butter is to destroy the adc. Its not so much that the adc has clear and inherant weaknesses, its that they have enemies that are designed to kill them with relative ease.

Everyone trying to kill them and having skills to help them do it IS their inherent weakness. If you don't like the role, play another one. If you want to feel like you contributed to the teamfight, pick a role that does that! Don't ask that the role of your choice be changed so that you can do something with a role that isn't designed for it.

Woook3r1 votes

{quoted}

Everyone trying to kill them and having skills to help them do it IS their inherent weakness. If you don't like the role, play another one. If you want to feel like you contributed to the teamfight, pick a role that does that! Don't ask that the role of your choice be changed so that you can do something with a role that isn't designed for it.

I thought their inherant weakness is that they are not supposed to have burst dmg. They deal dmg over time whilst being very squishy. Ergo, there is a wide duration of time in which to kill them as opposed to annie who unloads all of her dmg in 1 second with little to no counterplay during that time. You can deal with annie before she does dmg or after she does dmg. NOT while she does dmg. ADC's are different. You can kill them before they do dmg, after they have done dmg, and you can also kill them in the time between they start dpsing and when they stop. I seriously thought this was the inherent weakness of DPS combat. Explain me wrong.

disregardable1 votes

Or you could just play Teemo (the champion that fulfills that dream scenario that already exist) and let us keep our fun game.

Woook3r1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A2GV4i15,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-08-13T22:22:46.621+0000)

Or you could just play Teemo (the champion that fulfills that dream scenario that already exist) and let us keep our fun game.

I think the problem with teemo is that he makes the game unfun and non interactive or something. Bc of huge minefields that do nothing but make you recall and be afraid to walk around even tho he is currently on the other side of the map.. I am talking about a champion that can quickly set up an ambush scenario. There are champs like this. Heimerdinger. Shaco.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

no please melee champions have a hard enough time

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