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Nasus in Blind

The Ecdysiast··2 votes·1,131 views

Okay, I know nerfs are measured by their effectiveness in Ranked, so asking for a nerf for Nasus means nothing since he can be counterpicked. But Why is it fair that the enemy having a Nasus at all means they win because of his overbearing Q (500 damage every few basic on someone with no AD items, real balanced there Riot) in any blind match simply because we didn't happen to have a Nasus counter. Is it fair to the community to screw over anyone trying to earn IP simply because Nasus has counters in a draft pick? No.

Second thing: His Q really shouldn't work on towers, for the same reason Rengar's and Mordekaiser's don't: It is/would be too strong. Here come the people saying "yeah but Ren is AD so it makes sense" or "Yeah but... (There's no reason Mord's doesn't since it wouldn't even do much if the tower isn't isolated)" Problem being that those two can't buildpurely defensive items and still take out towers in a few hits like Nasus can. This meaning he can also SIT under them and attack even if he's been targeted by one.

Don't give me any bull out "but in ranked he..." because that's not what I'm talking about. It's bull that I lose out on IP in a game we're winning because Nasus can 3-shot a tower, even when our top laner stayed with him the entire time.

Don't bother voting or commenting if you're one of those people who has enough IP to not care how he is in unranked. This is obviously not for you, jerks.

22 Comments

Dyonas3 votes

The biggest issue I have with Nasus has changed as I've learned more about the game, champions and how to play against specific lanes. Initially it was the same annoyance at the fact he can build no damage items but with enough farm just smack you with a few Qs (QQ?) and even your tank loses 1/3 health. I'm sure you get the usual "deny him farm" but frankly that is the biggest issue I have with him now. In order to play in a team against a Nasus you are forced to either assign one player to constantly follow him and try to deny him as much farm as possible or just live with the fact that he'll eventually be the semi-unstoppable Q-machine.

How is it fun for any player to have to constantly attempt to stop one champion farming? At a set point there is no real way to do it either as his stacks mean he can just farm at tower all day long. The only real counters to his farming are blind which means Teemo (don't get me started) or Quinn. I will never understand why Riot ever designed champions with infinite scaling like Nasus and Veigar. At least with Veigar you know he's going to perhaps nuke one person then die but Nasus can require the whole team focusing him just to kill and you can't just ignore him with that Q damage. That leaves the rest of his team free to do what they please.

I'd really like to see what people consider real solutions to laning against Nasus in blind pick games.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

I love you. You're the only person on the damned boards who's ever understood me on a thread. Everyone else just gives their hurrdurr obvious arguments that only apply to draft pick (And even then, only apply if the enemy picked Nasus first). You actually understand that the enemy is a team of 5. People always say "just focus the champ or build against him" without remembering there are four other enemies, and armor to fight Nasus doesn't help you against Katarina.

In addition to infinitely stacking champs (Sion is pretty much negligible at this point), I'm wondering why the hell it is that the only two blinds in the entire game are on an adc and an AA ap champ. Why is it that Lux, Taric, and Leona don't have blinds with their light, but a poison dart and a bird do? There needs to be more blinds in the game, since they took out the dodge mechanic for everyone but Jax.

MohawkBird3 votes

[deleted]

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Agreed. Though no one will see this because the jerks who know Nasus isn't played in ranked unless he knows he's not countered are downvoting it.

Only Play Darius1 votes

A team with Nasus is fighting a 4v5 most of the game.

The only way Nasus can get superstacked after being shutdown in lane is by freezing lane right in front of his inner turret. Ambush him with a teammate and it's usually an easy inner turret/inhibitor turret.

Nasus exists to be a late game nightmare, your not supposed to have an easy time fighting him late game. Most games can be closed out well before he becomes a problem.

rMdinQJAr62 votes

so "plz olaf nasus so that he has a 0 percent winrate"

seems fair

The Ecdysiast1 votes

No. He needs to be completely reworked so he doesn't just one-shot towers and doesn't have that capability with a full tank build. That's all I'm saying. If they want to actually make him a fighter, fine. But as it stands he has the inverse problem of Tryndamere. Both considered fighters because of kilts that either allow them to build solely the tanky aspect of a fighter but still deal fighter damage, or build solely the damage aspect of a fighter but stay alive because invulnerability is a thing.

Only Play Darius2 votes

At this point pretty much anything counters Nasus. All you have to do is stay out of his death circle and play aggressively from the start.

Hell yesterday I had a Yorick of all champs bully me into submission.

And Q working on towers; that's his thing. He is one of the easiest champions to kite, so he is no good in teamfights unlike Rengar Mordekaiser, so instead he needs to be a strong pusher. Champs like Annie CaitlynVayne laugh at you while you try to catch up to them in ult form and they just kite you until you die and make you feel like a joke, let's see them laugh when you are destroying a tower in 5 seconds flat.

You really don't understand how miserable it is to be Nasus early game.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

As Nasus early game, all you have to do is hope your teammates don't force the game to end at 20:00. (And if you have flask vs an opponent who doesn't, they'll run out of mana long before you. Also, Yorick is pretty good at bullying people, he's just not played because he's both boring and has a useless ultimate.

The goal in the game is to destroy towers and then the nexus. It's not fair for someone who can sit under them and soak up damage to also be able to destroy them as easily as the ADC. Teamfights aside, his push is far too much when he builds pure tank and no damage. They should at least make him have to build some damage instead of just farming.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Don't play blind ...

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Nasus typically doesn't build armor penetration, so armor can greatly reduce his Qs damage.

Looking at the game you just lost against Nasus, the only armor items you team had were Gangplank's Ninja Tabi and Akali's Zhonya's Hourglass. Against a team composed of squishy champions, Nasus will deal significant damage if he can get in range. Considering the fact that only one champion on your team built any form of penetration (Last Whisper on Gangplank), and you didn't really have a way to hurt him.

Anyways, you were playing Gankplank so you should have had an advantage by kiting out Nasus. You can easily remove his Wither with W, a MS buff on your E, an innate slow though your passive, and you could get Trinity Force or Iceborn Gauntlet for addition mobility/slow.

The Ecdysiast1 votes
  1. My Q is not my auto, so no I can't kite him.
  2. Early, my Q, like many other champion's attacks, can be simply ignored by his passive lifesteal.
  3. "Typically Nasus doesn't build armor pen." He doesn't need to. Look at his E if you're forgetting his kit. The point is, along with not building armor pen, he also doesn't build any damage at all. And it's not killing allies I'm worried about. It's that at some point the towers stop being effective against him, both in attack and defense.
EndlessSorcerer2 votes

Um, Gangplank's Q is treated as an autoattack. It applies on-hit effects, benefits from lifesteal, draws minion aggro, is affected by Ninja Tabi, it can critically strike, etc. You could have easily used Trinity Force to kite him yourself or Iceborn Gauntlet/Frozen Mallet to help your team kite him.

Nasus is good at ignore small amounts of inconsistent damage. He has issue against champions who can all-in him or burst him down whenever he tries to CS. Either consistently poke him or save your resources for an all-in, but don't just occasionally hit him.

Nasus's E gives him flat armor reduction, which is great against low armor targets. It is much less effective against champions with a significant amount of armor such as Randuin's Omen or Iceborn Gauntlet. 40 Armor reduction is much more effective against a champion with 80 armor than 150 armor.

Many champions outscale towers; it's not just a problem with Nasus. For example, late game Trundle or Udyr can kill towers just as easily as Nasus while being as hard to kill.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Acting like an auto is not the same as being an auto. Even with MAX attack speed, the Q is still a 3 second cooldown. That is my point. If Gangplank were ranged like Gnar, then you'd have an argument. But I couldn't build solely to fight Nasus, the enemy has other teammates too. Building armor does absolutely nothing to help me kill Kassadin, and building MR AND Armor on Gangplank means he loses his attacking ability. For fairness, shouldn't GP's Q work on towers, then?

And another thing, are you suggesting someone rush Randuin's or Iceborn on Gangplank before any damage? That would put him in just as big a hole early.

And your point about Trundle and Udyr is a fair one, which only goes to show how little they care about making champions fair against towers. You correctly called it a problem.

Only Play Darius1 votes

The reason they have champs like Udyr and Trundle is because they are necessary for objectives.

Ever tried getting dragon/baron as Katarina ?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Well, no. You can just as easily get the objectives with your adc or any squishier ad champ. But the champs that are invincible and can take objectives are a problem. Ever tried to kill an Udyr with Katarina when he's taking the tower? He still gets the tower.

Only Play Darius1 votes

A few games ago i got forced out of lane by a GP who spammed his Q.

I started item 1054 but i still couldn't take the harass, and he was building AD faster than I could build armor.

Never overestimate Nasus's early game.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Well your problem is you started with just 80 extra HP. Flask or armor is a better choice. If you're using your Q even on minions, the harrass means nothing since he'll run out of mana just as fast with little to show since your passive gives you health back.

Joey Lumberpile1 votes

You can't balance based on experiences in inferior level of blind play. He has terrible match ups with about half of top laners, and the other half he can go even with. Granted, going even is exactly what nasus wants. That's saying something about his late game orientation - it's worth note to consider how balance works for champions who are "late game oriented" because the only other infinite scaling champion is Veigar who got dumpstered by DFG removal.

But split pushing is one of his largest identities, meaning taking away his Q tower dmg would be pretty lame. He's super susceptible/not very effective in team fights, very easy to kite, seeing as how other champions who rely on auto attacks have movement abilities.

He has a really boring kit, aoe armor reduction and a slow, I would honestly like to see a more interesting rework of nasus. He has no interesting play/counterplay, and with a lifesteal passive and crystalline flask (one of my biggest problems with this game atm, that item should be removed or altered) means that he can typically ignore lane bullies who will OOM before they even get him to 50%. It's not a strong or overpowered champion, just a very toxic one. It doesn't seem to mesh with riot's meta.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

You're completely right. Even if he gets destroyed in lane, he can still simply farm if your team doesn't hinder itself by assigning someone to stop him. I've had several games where I lost lane, and I'm not even very good at farming his Q, but still won the game because of what it does to towers. Yes, his kit is boring.

Oh and on Flask, you've gotta remember that even if you're oom and got him down to 60% HP, his passive just lets him get it back up while you're gone.

What do you think of doing away with infinite stacking alltogether? And a rework. He doesn't need to be a tank-with-one-hard-hit-and-passives-to-buff-it champion.

Joey Lumberpile2 votes

I'm saying that flask is the exact reason these kinds of champions are even viable. Flask completely negates these style of no-risk-always-reward champions. The idea that a weak early lane can be circumvented by an item start WITH NO STATS is hilarious.

I would love a rework for nasus, something perhaps playing to his theme as a "guardian of knowledge" etc.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

But just as well, the goal of the game is to take out towers. Being able to sit under them as a tank and still destroy them as easily as someone who actually built damage is not okay. (And doesn't he do AOE damage on his ult, AND gain AD for anything hit by it? And reduce the armor of everyone in an area?)

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