So Camille who's been broken for the whole season, get's -3%AS nerf...

option paralysis·Nov 29, 2018·74 votes·18,425 views

Camille is broken since always and is literally one of the most played jungler by challengers and top laners... gets a -3% AS nerf, but Wukong who was played couple times in lcs and got played for like a month, gets hit hard on 2 of his main spells by base dmg AND ad ratio. His Q literally deals 10 dmg lvl 1, 10 fucking dmg. Also, Camille is a far better top laner and a far far far better jungler, but hey -3%. Not to mention she can jump half the map with her E and lock you down with her ult, and not to mention she has 2 AA resets, and a shield and a heal/slow. But wukong deserved to get hit harder with nerfs, even though they did apsolutely nothing for him FOR 4 YEARS. We can't even get a new passive or a mini rework. No favoritism at all from riot, none at all, amirite.

104 Comments

iiTimNov 29, 201830 votes

I think camille isn't broken. And a 3% nerf isn't as bad as it seems. her clear will be slower in the jgl and that result in less ganks. Wukong skills super well with dark harvest lately so he will be nerfed because he can abuse it so well. Camille got some nice abilty's but if you look up her overall win rate it's lower then you think

option paralysisNov 29, 20187 votes

{quoted}

I think camille isn't broken. And a 3% nerf isn't as bad as it seems. her clear will be slower in the jgl and that result in less ganks. Wukong skills super well with dark harvest lately so he will be nerfed because he can abuse it so well. Camille got some nice abilty's but if you look up her overall win rate it's lower then you think

dark harvest is broken, so wukong will be nerfed. bruh, your logic is amazing.

iiTimNov 29, 20187 votes

dark harvest already recieved some nerfs. And wukong is a strong champion atm and doesn't require a lot of skill. He is doing really good lately. and with the new dark harvest he is even stronger.

option paralysisNov 29, 20185 votes

{quoted}

dark harvest already recieved some nerfs. And wukong is a strong champion atm and doesn't require a lot of skill. He is doing really good lately. and with the new dark harvest he is even stronger.

how the fuck can you say wukong is strong, oh yeah you have 0 wukong games. thats how. wukong is only good if you complain about his EAAQ and you don't punish his 15 sec cds when he does that. and in the jungle hes just garbage, get invades 24/7.

iiTimNov 29, 201812 votes

Wukong got a 53.44% winrate in the top lane. He is the second best preforming top laner. And got a 51% win rate in the jungle. This is one of the reason's why he is getting nerfed

SaezioNov 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Wukong got a 53.44% winrate in the top lane. He is the second best preforming top laner. And got a 51% win rate in the jungle. This is one of the season's why he is getting nerfed

So masters players are trash and don't know what all is about that is why he has less than 0.5% pick rate. If you compare that to anything compare it to onetricks of other champions.

iiTimNov 29, 20182 votes

When his pick rate is low doen't mean a champion isn't good. Maybe a lot of people think he is op but just boring to play so they rather pick somthing else. If i watch some challenger jungler's i still see they pick wukong from time to time. Nightblue still picks him often and thinks he is really strong to this meta

SaezioNov 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

When his pick rate is low doen't mean a champion isn't good. Maybe a lot of people think he is op but just boring to play so they rather pick somthing else. If i watch some challenger jungler's i still see they pick wukong from time to time. Nightblue still picks him often and thinks he is really strong to this meta

No it means the champ is not op. Check the top played champs. When jax is good every fucker plays him, is he fun to play? NOPE but he is easy and strong. If wukong was strong (since he is already easy) people would pick him or at least ban him. He is just bad in high elo. Wukong is only good in low elo because people are bad there and the easy champions (yi garen darius etc) can dominate even if they are really trash because you just make less mistakes with them. As for nightblue, lets see his op.gg on main account and count ranked wukong games.... Oh 1 game. Don't let the YT videos fool you, those are not even ranked games by NB3, he is just destroying his viewers so he can later say "Riot WHAT HAVE YOU DONE THIS CHAMP IS SO BUSTEDDDD"

Fire BlaustoiseNov 29, 20186 votes

take pickrate in account. really want to know why this board and riot are so attached to wr ??? it dosnt show the state of a champion.

saltranNov 29, 20185 votes

Now look at the pickrate genius

iiTimNov 29, 20181 votes

so if a champion got a 90% winrate but a pick rate of 1% he doens't deserve a nerf?

SaezioNov 29, 20187 votes

{quoted}

so if a champion got a 90% winrate but a pick rate of 1% he doens't deserve a nerf?

Well let me put it this way. Trundle has 85,7% winrate in masters. Pretty OP right? well he was played in 7 games overall. You tell me if that 85% means shit or not

iiTimNov 29, 20181 votes

first of all i sad 90% and second 7 times in a day, weak, month?

SaezioNov 29, 20184 votes

{quoted}

first of all i sad 90% and second 7 times in a day, weak, month?

same span camille got 450 games. I think it was a week in euw servers, not sure, i never use op.gg for stats because it has to be 1 region only. Point is you can draw some stats and conclusions from 450 masters games but not from 7 games, I'm pretty sure you won't disagree.

iiTimNov 29, 20181 votes

i agree but remember it's preseason everbody pick what he like's all challenger and masters will get reset to master 0 lp in a few days becasue of grandmaster why would you give a fuck about your lp if you can just play a fun champ like camille.

UvecNov 29, 20184 votes

"Fun" is a subjective term and I'll tell you that camille is absolute fucking cancer to play against, moreso than any wukong.

XxxLumberJackxxXNov 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Wukong got a 53.44% winrate in the top lane. He is the second best preforming top laner. And got a 51% win rate in the jungle. This is one of the reason's why he is getting nerfed

WUkong is an AoE ult dmg dealer, those winrates are always skewed high even when the champion is actually 'bad' i.e. players in plat+ just shit on him whether its top or jungle

SaezioNov 29, 20187 votes

{quoted}

I think camille isn't broken. And a 3% nerf isn't as bad as it seems. her clear will be slower in the jgl and that result in less ganks. Wukong skills super well with dark harvest lately so he will be nerfed because he can abuse it so well. Camille got some nice abilty's but if you look up her overall win rate it's lower then you think

LOL are you mental? Check every challenger jungler season 8 stats with camille in any fucking region. Her pick and win rates are disgusting. Wukong is nerfed because he is easy to play, has a low ceiling that gets reached by maybe high gold and babies like to cry because they lose to easy champs. Same reason garen can never be relevant for more than a month, he will be gutted as he was. The thing is none can play camile pre diamond 3 or so. And that is why low elo doesn't cry about her.

iiTimNov 29, 20188 votes

Camille still has a negative winrate in the jungle at plat+ level. because of the challenger picks she will get a small nerf but overall she isnt performing that good.

SaezioNov 29, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Camille still has a negative winrate in the jungle at plat+ level. because of the challenger picks she will get a small nerf but overall she isnt performing that good.

OK, stop announcing winrates without giving the pick rates as well. A champ with 49% winrate and 50% pick/ban presence in challenger is easily more broken than a 53% winrate with 1% pick/ban rate. the champs with low pick rates SHOULD have higher winrates because the one tricks are such a huge part of that 1% picking the champ.

Camile in diamond has 51,5% winrate WHILE having 20% pick rate and 30%+ ban rate. (thus, everyone and their mothers are playing her and doing good with her) Wukong has 52,3% winrate BUT has a 2,7% pick rate and a 0,5% ban rate. (so pretty much only dedicated players play him)

Now lets see one trick camile vs wukong stats... oh wait camile is a full 6% higher winrate than wukong and she is one tricked more.

iiTimNov 29, 20182 votes

Camille has a way more fun kit. So people play her way more often then a wukong who only got point to click abilty's.

BestealNov 29, 20183 votes

Aaaaannnnnd, clearly, you missed the entire point of this guys post. No one actually cares if a champion has a fun kit, as long as they win. Everything is point and click? Who tf cares they still play Garen, Yi, Warwick, literally every ADC, because they win games. If you are playing ranked, and are higher than bronze 1, you are probably not playing JUST to play a fun game. At the very least, I have never seen more than 1 or 2 people with that mentality a season. No one gives a care in the world about how fun a champion is; they care if they win games. Wukong top's pickrate is so abysmally low that if he didn't have a good winrate than it would be an anomaly. The reason Camille's winrate + pickrate is where it is does not have anything to do with how fun it is. High pickrate + winrate means that a champion is broken e.g. Lucian, Camille, and Urgot.

iiTimNov 29, 20181 votes

i play for fun in ranked i wound't play lee if it wasn't for fun i could play a rummes vs a full ad team but i pref to play lee just for fun. And i think way more people think like this. i would not pick a tahm kench top even if it had a 90% win rate and remember camille is still at place 77 at winrate's in callenger so if we all gonna look at it that way a lot of champions needs a nerf.

SaezioNov 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

i play for fun in ranked i wound't play lee if it wasn't for fun i could play a rummes vs a full ad team but i pref to play lee just for fun. And i think way more people think like this. i would not pick a tahm kench top even if it had a 90% win rate and remember camille is still at place 77 at winrate's in callenger so if we all gonna look at it that way a lot of champions needs a nerf.

SHE RANKS 2 at MASTER+ CHAMPIONS WHAT THE FUCK IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? YOU HAVE TO INCLUDE PICK RATES NOT JUST WIN RATES. HERE http://prntscr.com/loie8t

iiTimNov 29, 20181 votes

i'm just reading what op.gg is saying

ps. "Enjoy the rest of your day, I'm out."

SaezioNov 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

i'm just reading what op.gg is saying

ps. "Enjoy the rest of your day, I'm out."

camile is 4th most played in all masters games with a 61% winrate. (according to OP.GG, you should swap for lolalytics way more informative btw, you can't filter shit in op.gg or even look at pick rates xD) And 1% is not as small as you might think. 1% is way higher than some champions actual pick rate in challenger.

T2K BakaNov 29, 20183 votes

THANK YOU. This is the same thing with Katarina. She has a 50-51% winrate but like a 3.2% win rate. People still want to Nerf her when her stats are shit. It's legit gunblade that needs nerfs or to be removed. Her shunpo does 75 dmg max rank. Sorry to bring this up about a champ who has nothing to do with this.

But I've finally found someone who understands champ stats. I pray the best for you in everything. Good day to you sir/madam

saltranNov 29, 20183 votes

Camille still has a negative winrate in the jungle at plat+ level

50.01% winrate at 11.0% pickrate on plat+ only jng

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Camille/

Fire BlaustoiseNov 29, 20186 votes

Correction, she's not broken in your elo. Wukong is good in low elo, but this pick is a joke when you reach diamond (i would even argue the pick is meh in plat). The nerf of Camille is overrated cause everyone keep parroting "its a big nerf". No, its not, not on her. Same as the -3AD wasnt enough for Graves (still very contested in high elo)

iiTimNov 29, 20181 votes

Still i dont see graves that often after that nerf. and i dont say wukong is broken. i say its still a strong champ even in diamond, master and challnger. Camille is to, i admit the nerfs could be some more but that doesn't mean wukong is a weak champion.

Fire BlaustoiseNov 29, 20183 votes

. i say its still a strong champ even in diamond, master and challnger.

And i say you're wrong and only base your opinion on stat. But anyone (ask any jungler mains or top mains) played beyond diamond know know Wukong is trash.

iiTimNov 29, 20181 votes

At my other account i play in low diamond and i frequently still see him there. I dont think he is beyond broken but riot is looking at stats and i think they have a point there.

Fire BlaustoiseNov 29, 20182 votes

In high diam they're no chance to lose your lane against a Wukong, no chance to get outpressure by a Wukong jng. In high diams Camille is perma pick (and ofc she's broken).

but riot is looking at stats and i think they have a point there.

They shouldnt, f*ck dat. Just buff Aatrox & Akali if you only look at stats.

Z3SleeperNov 29, 20184 votes

{quoted}

if you look up her overall win rate it's lower then you think

For the 607th time. Low Winrate =/= Not Broken.

Akali is being nerfed despite her 43% winrate. She literally has the lowest winrate of all mid laners and yet she is being nerfed.

Wanna know why? Cuz she's broken.

We can try to reach a perfect 50% winrate on old AP Yi, old Sion, old Galio, old Poppy, w/e but they'll still be broken designs.

We can make a champion that has no other abilities other than a single click target spell that instantly oneshots and twiddle around with cooldown numbers, base stats, w.e until it hits 50% winrate but it will never not be broken.

It's entirely possible to balance a broken champion. But no amount of numerical balance will fix a broken design.

iiTimNov 29, 20181 votes

every new/reworked champion always starts with a low winrate that has nothing to do with this.

Z3SleeperNov 29, 20185 votes

Akali's release was 8 patches ago. About 4 months ago.

Do you really think it takes people 4 months to learn a champion?

FlashesNov 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I think camille isn't broken. And a 3% nerf isn't as bad as it seems. her clear will be slower in the jgl and that result in less ganks. Wukong skills super well with dark harvest lately so he will be nerfed because he can abuse it so well. Camille got some nice abilty's but if you look up her overall win rate it's lower then you think

They nerfed the wrong thing on Camille. Right now, she's a really unhealthy design with shitty clear but god tier ganks, which makes it feel shitty to play as both Camille AND the people playing AGAINST Camille.

LTK KoRoDec 1, 20181 votes

Sadly, Camille ganks can be removed without ruining her identify and thing which makes her fun to play.

Riot confirmed that Camille was designed all around her hookshot. She even was named hookshot during the design.

The only way how her ganks could be nerfed is by: -lowering range on her hookshot (which would made her really bad to play as and reduce satisfaction from her) -removing one of the AA resets from her q (would be really inconsistent) -lowering the AS buff from E (would nerf her harder on top than in jungle)

I dont really know how Camille could be nerfed in jungle only without gutting her a champion. Also im a Camille lover who's a jungle main, and i would be very sad if Camille would be forced out of jungle.

FlashesDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9oXgJ5Oj,comment-id=000000040000,timestamp=2018-12-01T13:00:47.596+0000)

Sadly, Camille ganks can be removed without ruining her identify and thing which makes her fun to play.

Riot confirmed that Camille was designed all around her hookshot. She even was named hookshot during the design.

The only way how her ganks could be nerfed is by: -lowering range on her hookshot (which would made her really bad to play as and reduce satisfaction from her) -removing one of the AA resets from her q (would be really inconsistent) -lowering the AS buff from E (would nerf her harder on top than in jungle)

I dont really know how Camille could be nerfed in jungle only without gutting her a champion. Also im a Camille lover who's a jungle main, and i would be very sad if Camille would be forced out of jungle.

Camille was designed as a top lane champion, and I could totally see her having to commit more in both top lane AND jungle in order to shift power away from the unhealthy design, so i was thinking that Riot should actually INCREASE her attack speed, but reduce her true damage scaling and reduce the range on hookshot in order to make sure that Camille has to stay in for longer without always relying on True Damage procs then hookshotting away.

RaoulNov 29, 201815 votes

Camille is a Champion they want in LCS. She does the Skill outplay moves that RIOT wants to show the world as a representation of their game, she flashy, fast and looks super fun to play. Wukong is a Champion that is more about one engage. Thats boring to watch. That makes people think the game might be boring.

RIOT is balancing around this for years. They want to keep Flashy Champions on the top and boring champions down.

saltranNov 29, 20188 votes

Yeah that's why they balance to have pro play filled with Zed Yasuo Fizz Katarina Riven amirite?

SaezioNov 29, 201812 votes

{quoted}

Yeah that's why they balance to have pro play filled with amirite?

why pick those when Leblanc Irelia Akali Aatrox are just better?

You cannot deny they have pushed any tank/stalling champion out the meta though. Where are the maokais the nautilus the azirs the sivirs the corkis? they want fast games. Sure not ALL the assassins got in but more than any other year in worlds AMIRITE?

saltranNov 29, 20184 votes

sivirs

Unironically she was quite good on Worlds, but well remember that last Worlds we had the Ardent meta with enchanters-adcs and tanks everywhere, it's not that terrible that this year we had Worlds ruled by solo lanes right?

Not saying that you cant complain about meta, I do aswell, but I wont pretend that it has always been like this.

SaezioNov 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Unironically she was quite good on Worlds, but well remember that last Worlds we had the Ardent meta with enchanters-adcs and tanks everywhere, it's not that terrible that this year we had Worlds ruled by solo lanes right?

Not saying that you cant complain about meta, I do aswell, but I wont pretend that it has always been like this.

Don't get me wrong I hated ardent meta even more. I liked the meta back in season 2-3-4 a millions time more. Were there a lot of sivirs at worlds? I think there was not a single ban on her but yeah I guess my example was not that hot.

I also kinda liked the meta with awesome dudes bot. But adc players are too precious to our player counts

saltranNov 29, 20185 votes

http://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/83/season-S8/split-ALL/tournament-World%20Championship%202018/patch-ALL/role-ADC/league-ALL/

9 bans 18 picks, the third adc more relevant on Worlds.

SaezioNov 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

9 bans 18 picks, the third adc more relevant on Worlds.

Wow nice, I watched the whole thing but never noticed she was so relevant. ADC just felt like a bit of a non factor to me.

3TWarriorNov 30, 20181 votes

what's more fun than watching a crazy monkey man flinging people into the air with his spinning stick of doom?! XD

wolviusNov 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

what's more fun than watching a crazy monkey man flinging people into the air with his spinning stick of doom?! XD

Shaco Watching people trying to run from your clone, enjoying the fact they know if they kill it they will die and watching them perish to its auto's anyway. [garen-swing]