Let's look at how many fighters or assassins have 2 AOE Hard CC's
Yea, this is a problem
Not to mention both of them cost nothing
Edit: Lol at some of these Riven mains. "Yea but how many champs have cc. about 70" "Yea but a ton of people have aoe cc"
How many have TWO. AOE. HARD. CCs people, read.
IcyPepper42 votes"only has damage"
"only has damage"
Are you shitting me? Riven is a fighter's wet dream. Mobility (Q gets spammed to escape from ganks, gee I fucking wonder why), a shield that scales off her core stat instead of ability power or HP, two hard cc, an aa steroid and an AD steroid that extends her aa range and with a ranged skillshot with her ult. And no resource to manage in lane, so all you have to worry about is health.
Riven has a lot of strengths (and some weaknesses), but downplaying them sets off my bullshit detector.
Saianna21 votesCalling her ultimate a "skillshot" is kind of wrong...
It's easier to hit the target than any point & click abilities :|
Bârd5 votesWell,
Have you seen the projectile speed?
Left Hook Larry13 votesThe only way to dodge is if you flash it
junglerboy166 votesMeh, if your standing at the end of it's range as Hecarim you can outrun it :D
FastAsHeck4 votesIt's easier to hit the target than any point & click abilities :|
that moment when this is literally the truth (you dont even have to put the mouse on them, just aim at their general direction)
Ultîma10 votesYou've forgotten one of her most broken aspects; with animation cancelling and her passive, she can 100-0 absolutely any opponent in the game. No one should be able to auto-attack 4 times in 2 seconds without building any sort of attack speed, when their auto-attacks can outright murder toplane fighters.
Epilogue of Life3 votesLol her health regen dude, prolly one of the lowest in game...
MarhsallLee6720 votesBecause low health regen, virtually her only weakness, makes up for all of her unnecessary strengths.
Epilogue of Life1 votesDoes she have poke? Does she have as much shield as Tahm Kench?
AFK Push6 votesThat shield scales off of her damage, has a very low cooldown, and is also a gap closer. Don't act like it isn't anything to laugh at. Also, with 4 gap closers and seeing the range of her ult she doesn't need any poke.
Epilogue of Life2 votesEach of the "gap closers" has around 200 range? And only her third Q and go through wall. Then you have someone like Nidalee, with poke, heal, no cost jumps that go through walls, vision, and execute+auto reset....yet nobody complains about her. And you don't even need to cancel animation on her...
Epilogue of Life18 votesYasuo? Q+R...
MohawkBird1 votes[deleted]
EndlessSorcerer12 votesThe third Q is an AoE knockup.
Knockups count as hard CC.
kile1478 votesThat's kind of a tricky one because his ult can't be used as a cc on it's own, and is more of a half cc since it's a continuation of other knock-ups. I'd say this is one of those situations where he gets the extra power of two cc because not only is one of them his ultimate, but it has requirements outside of just cost/cooldowns in order to use it.
HAIL WHYDRA2 votesI know this is up to debate, but his ult is actually considered a "suspension", which like you said is a continuation of a "displacement" (Not using the term knockup when I can ult off of a Vayne e, or Janna's ultimate) which I personally consider to be another cc. But I up-voted your post anyways for a good argument.
Nilok2 votesHis ult is a knock up extender, but not CC wholly by itself. More that it is gated behind a required knock up.
EndlessSorcerer16 votesA fighter with 2 AoE Hard CCs...
Wow, guess there are more than just Riven.
And if we include non-fighters (as tagged by Riot):
Anonagon33 votesall four are built full tank all the time
riot's tags mean nothing
EndlessSorcerer8 votesCommunity classifications of champions are numerous and varied. It's hard to argue that Riot decided to label these champions as fighters.
Besides, Gnar will commonly build one or two offensive/defensive items. Common picks include Maw of Malmortius, Black Cleaver, and Frozen Mallet.
Saianna13 votesGaren used to be listed as an assassin cause of "DEMACIAAAAAAAAA" from brush.
ChaoticPinecone8 votesTristana, Twitch, Vayne, Jax, Malzahar, and Xerath are labeled assassins. While Diana is not.
l dont think Riot's tags are always on point.
Rysophage2 votesGragas does a fuck ton of damage when he has cinderhuk and randuins. gnar does a fuck ton of damage when he has randuins and bork. sion does a fuckton of damage. and zac is irellevant fanboys can fight me
Anonagon2 votesDoing damage doesn't change the fact that they are tanks
All (viable) tanks do stupid damage without building for it
galdamesh13 votesthe problem with riven always has and always will be animation cancelling.
they are forced to balance around it with simple numbers because without removing it there is nothing else to tweak.
she needs animation cancelling removed then compensation buffs.
.75 second stun and .75 second knock up would not be oppressive if animation cancelling didn't mean you can unload your entire rotation in 2 seconds 1.5 of which are hard cc'ed.
remove animation cancelling, and you can buff her so losing one trade doesn't put you super behind in lane.
it's a toxic "feature" that goes against most of riots design ideas, burden of knowledge, hidden power, feast or famine.
HAIL WHYDRA10 votesAfter seeing Riots compensation "buffs" to veigar, I wouldnt mind Riven getting some.
Mr Woop Woop2 votesThis is a post I can half get behind... I am behind it because this would be a good change. I am not because it would punish smart players for being smart.
LittleBlast1 votesHeres the thing though, if they buffed her after removing animation cancelling, she becomes an even lower skill champ, and therefore be forced to be absolutely unviable due to her being so simple but strong.
galdamesh2 voteswithout animation cancelling she has alot more "levers" you can tweak to get balance.
her mobility will always give her outplay potential, and her ult dueling relevance.
her decision making will be at a higher skill ceiling, and honestly, decision making is what most players are bad at.
using animation cancelling as a crutch to allow her viability is a mistake, it's bad design.
let her ability to shield damage in trades, weave aa's, land and take advantage of her short cc's win or lose lane, not her ability to use a fighting games mechanics.
LeeDark11 votesI've never seen a Riven main say she only has damage. You were an idiot before you even finished the title of your whiny little post.
Dextix LT2 votesYou must not come to forums very often then..... Have you ever tried arguing with a riven main? I have. It was not a pleasant experience.
LeeDark3 votesI'm here all the time. I hear them say, "She'd be trash tier without animation canceling" and "She's well balanced when you look at the big picture." I've never heard them deny she has CC or say she only has damage. I've even heard them say, specifically in context of discussing her squishiness, that she only builds damage. Her stats prove it. She falls off hard in win rate in longer games.
Dextix LT2 votesHere we go. Here are some really interesting arguments from Riven Defenders.
"she is the hardest champ in the game to play correctly" Source: http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/ewVmBpmO-riven-is-not-op-let-me-explain-why
"Exhaust + stun" http://forums.eune.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=796386&page=1
"Just won versus Riven as Fiora every duel, broken Riven, nerf plox." http://forums.eune.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=796386&page=3
"She is melle" No source since you can find this in every riven thread.
"Can't flash our of her ult? Flash behind her" This is a riven lover argument how to dodge her ulti, flash out or if it still can reach you flash next to riven. http://forums.eune.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=796386&page=7
Also my favourite.
"If riven is op why dont you take and go to chalenger" Which you can find in every riven thread too.
Altricad10 votes
well they all have 1 of it on their ultis, so they actually give up something
soliznoel7 votesI've heard people make this argument before but riven's CC isn't all that great, mostly due to the fact you build no tank items, and you also have the shortest stun in the game and i almost feel like her knock up is shorter than others too with both her stun and knock up with small radiuses, And in reality if you really wanted a lot of hard CC u would pick maokai, nautilus, thresh, hecarim, those guys who can build really tanky, constantly put out CC, still do damage without building a whole lot of it, and alot more forgiving when they fall behind also because their kits allow them to be useful.
So in reality riven does only bring damage, she's also shit at siegeing because she has no wave clear. Also, her team fight isn't that great because of her being an ad caster stun or roots make her completely useless. Last thing is riven can only snowball, if she falls behind she's useless, and there are a lot worse people to have fed than riven.
Sir Yamazuki19 votesI've heard people make this argument before but riven's CC isn't all that great, mostly due to the fact you build no tank items, and you also have the shortest stun in the game and i almost feel like her knock up is shorter than others too with both her stun and knock up with small radiuses, And in reality if you really wanted a lot of hard CC u would pick maokai, nautilus, thresh, hecarim, those guys who can build really tanky, constantly put out CC, still do damage without building a whole lot of it, and alot more forgiving when they fall behind also because their kits allow them to be useful.
So in reality riven does only bring damage, she's also shit at siegeing because she has no wave clear. Also, her team fight isn't that great because of her being an ad caster stun or roots make her completely useless. Last thing is riven can only snowball, if she falls behind she's useless, and there are a lot worse people to have fed than riven.
You do realize that "short" cc enables her to kill her target before the cc ends? Imagine if Zed could stop you from reacting for just 1 second, or even any other champion that bursts squishy champions. She also gains a shield off her offensive stat in addition to her mobility. Comparing cc on a champion who deals assassin level damage to tanks who have cc that deal very little upfront damage is silly.
OOOOHHHHBABY10 votesYou know the only reason why i cant 1v1 a Riven on my leesin is cause she stuns me. That less than a second stun is enough to make her beat me, meanwhile leesin has his e nerfed which was just an atk spd slow not even a stun. IMO it should be a slow, and not a stun: and your arguement seems to not care about me saying this. "So in reality riven does only bring damage" Please make that true
LionelLeon5 votesHer knock up range is around 150 and stun is 125 Ult makes her knock up 225 while her stun is 200 The range is really small and it's your fault for making riven knock up and stun 5 people. Stop making QQ threads about a weak champion
Aikki24 votesHer knock up range is around 150 and stun is 125 Ult makes her knock up 225 while her stun is 200 The range is really small and it's your fault for making riven knock up and stun 5 people. Stop making QQ threads about a weak champion
Did you just... Did you just call Riven a weak champion? Now I've seen it all, lol.
soliznoel3 votesLOL, Riven definitely isn't weak, but is she as OP as everyone says she is definitely not.
LionelLeon3 votesThe riven on your team is either boxbox or a first time riven, it's always a gamble.
Canechurch6 votesThe riven on your team is either boxbox or a first time riven, it's always a gamble.
Shaco syndrome I call it. Enemy Shacos are god, shacos on your team die over and over and over and over
sedated twink3 votes.75 sec stuns are not hard cc
Idk where you got that adjective from...
Saianna20 votesEven 0,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 sec stun is still a stun thereby hard cc.
Zair Umbras1 votesSo you're saying Kass's Q is hard CC? His silence lasts for about that long, just long enough to 'interrupt' a channel.
MarhsallLee6711 votesIt prevents the targeted champion from performing certain actions, so yes, it is technically a hard cc.
Zair Umbras4 votesWell, damage prevents Twitch and Rengar from stealthing and Rek'Sai from ulti'ing. I mean, you can't define hard CC as preventing a champion from performing certain actions. Death can prevent everything, so I'd guess LB's Q+R+W combo is CC too by that definition. :P
MarhsallLee673 votesYou can define "hard CC" as that, actually. The LoL wiki did: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Crowd_control
Anyway, Twitch/Rengar/Rek'Sai are very specific cases. Hard CC is anything that can stop ANY champion from performing a specific action, such as moving, using abilities, auto-attacking, and casting summoner spells.
