The Sion Int Strat is Anti Fun

BrightWîngs·Oct 5, 2018·12 votes·12,208 views

Like I don't know how to explain it any more that that it's just so annoying to play against, even Teemo takes more brain power than this. Both times going up against this I was unfortunately playing a tank at least if I was playing a carry champ I would get fed off him inting but since I was a tank me being fed doesn't really matter especially if I have to sit top and stop him from brainlessly pushing or he will litterally end the game since hes sion his demolish damage is equal to fucking rift herald lol. I'm sorry I hate complaining but this shit is just lame.

49 Comments

sneakydougOct 6, 20187 votes

Sounds like playing vs tryndamere.

ankoanko19Oct 6, 20182 votes

Except Sion pushes the turrets faster ironically enough..

Or at this point it isnt even ironic. Ap trynd pushed better than AD trynd lol.

LeftyRaydyOct 5, 20184 votes

I am guessing that he just gets to tower and keeps attacking it even if he is killed and destroying theses towers with Demolish. I am not familiar with the strategy as I have not seen it at least in high plat ELO. The way to counter this is simple, but you may need team help depending on the scenario. 1 pick a good split pusher that will keep you top all game (trydamere, shyvana, Jax, or others) you can push it down and Sion cannot duel them due to them doing so much damage. 2 ward heavy and kill him before he reaches your tower (by yourself if you can or with your team), 3 just go 5 v 4 the enemy team and win, 4 ZZrot portal can help keep pressure in the lane.

AlzonOct 5, 20184 votes

Shyvana and Tryndamere have more staying power since they are manaless, but yeah. Someone who can run circles around him, outshove him, and shred him is the way to go. Yi would work if his movespeed weren't tied to his ult. Shyvana is probably better than Tryndamere as she has %hp damage and can contribute more to fights when he is down and she can roam, but then again I'm biased :)

Oh, and Shyvana can shove freely with no items. Tryndamere needs Tiamat, Shiv, or AP.

BrightWîngsOct 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I am guessing that he just gets to tower and keeps attacking it even if he is killed and destroying theses towers with Demolish. I am not familiar with the strategy as I have not seen it at least in high plat ELO. The way to counter this is simple, but you may need team help depending on the scenario. 1 pick a good split pusher that will keep you top all game (trydamere, shyvana, Jax, or others) you can push it down and Sion cannot duel them due to them doing so much damage. 2 ward heavy and kill him before he reaches your tower (by yourself if you can or with your team), 3 just go 5 v 4 the enemy team and win, 4 ZZrot portal can help keep pressure in the lane.

it's not because it's impossible to deal with because it's not it's just very VERY anti fun to deal with all together it's like tending to a stubborn child lol and I can't always counter pick it I'm normally a team player and pick what the team needs and most of the time team needs a tank so I pick tank

MorganFreemanBotOct 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

it's not because it's impossible to deal with because it's not it's just very VERY anti fun to deal with all together it's like tending to a stubborn child lol and I can't always counter pick it I'm normally a team player and pick what the team needs and most of the time team needs a tank so I pick tank

Split pushing has always been hard to deal with / anti fun for everyone who's NOT the split pusher.

Trynd, Yorrick, and a couple of other top laners (most of whom aren't viable right now) do this exact same strat.

In the past Nid, Trundle, Renekton, Rengar, and others have abused this exact pattern.

They don't come "back from the dead" line Sion does, but generally trade that for a LOT more dueling power. So Sion's unique in that he's able to do this as a tank, which doesn't actually add much strength because a BIG danger with historical problem split pushers is how they're all too capable of murdering one (or even two) people sent to stop them. So that's a trade off which is fair.

BrightWîngsOct 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Split pushing has always been hard to deal with / anti fun for everyone who's NOT the split pusher.

Trynd, Yorrick, and a couple of other top laners (most of whom aren't viable right now) do this exact same strat.

In the past Nid, Trundle, Renekton, Rengar, and others have abused this exact pattern.

They don't come "back from the dead" line Sion does, but generally trade that for a LOT more dueling power. So Sion's unique in that he's able to do this as a tank, which doesn't actually add much strength because a BIG danger with historical problem split pushers is how they're all too capable of murdering one (or even two) people sent to stop them. So that's a trade off which is fair.

yeah but theres somthing worse about this one the reason they split push is because they can 1v1 really well Sion just takes really long to kill lol

MorganFreemanBotOct 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

yeah but theres somthing worse about this one the reason they split push is because they can 1v1 really well Sion just takes really long to kill lol

Which is, again, not a problem.

Historical 'problem' split pushers have been monsters which absolutely no one can out duel (Nasus, Trynd, Nid, Trundle, Jax, ect) and are quite capable of turning 2v1s if they're fed enough.

They've also tended to, again historically, have an easy time escaping unfavorable situations. Shortly after release Rengar emerged as a split pushing power-house, and his stealth was powerfully nerfed as a result. Trynd, Nid, Jax, and a few other "split-pushing duelist escape artists." have had nerfs for the same reason over the years.

Sion isn't that. He's sort of semi dangerous early and mid game if you don't know how to play against him / aren't playing the right champs, but his kill potential is mostly up to his enemy to fumble. His ulti can get him out of sticky situations, but it's also hard-countered by simply being ontop of him or walking infront of him. It's not like Nid out-running entire teams via bushes and jumping walls.

So Sion is worse in almost every way than historical problem split pushers. Like, non-viably worse. As in he'd be garbage at it, or at least should be.

His only redeeming quality is how much health he gets. This lets him double dip; it makes him hard to kill, and makes him dangerous to towers via the Demolisher rune.

But even still, 'hard to kill' isn't a huge problem. He's not going to win any 1v2s ala previous problem split pushers, nor is he good from escaping this self-same fights. He's wholly unique in that he's a tank who can split push effectively (I guess, technically, Singed qualifies too?), but he's MASSIVELY easier to counter than others have been in the past.

BrightWîngsOct 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Split pushing has always been hard to deal with / anti fun for everyone who's NOT the split pusher.

Trynd, Yorrick, and a couple of other top laners (most of whom aren't viable right now) do this exact same strat.

In the past Nid, Trundle, Renekton, Rengar, and others have abused this exact pattern.

They don't come "back from the dead" line Sion does, but generally trade that for a LOT more dueling power. So Sion's unique in that he's able to do this as a tank, which doesn't actually add much strength because a BIG danger with historical problem split pushers is how they're all too capable of murdering one (or even two) people sent to stop them. So that's a trade off which is fair.

its not that i dont disagree with you i totally get it split pushing is really annoying all together

cool name btw XD

Queen OroroOct 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I am guessing that he just gets to tower and keeps attacking it even if he is killed and destroying theses towers with Demolish. I am not familiar with the strategy as I have not seen it at least in high plat ELO. The way to counter this is simple, but you may need team help depending on the scenario. 1 pick a good split pusher that will keep you top all game (trydamere, shyvana, Jax, or others) you can push it down and Sion cannot duel them due to them doing so much damage. 2 ward heavy and kill him before he reaches your tower (by yourself if you can or with your team), 3 just go 5 v 4 the enemy team and win, 4 ZZrot portal can help keep pressure in the lane.

The reason int sion works 10x better than those two is that of his hp stacking W to reap the benefits of demolish+zz also his passive

i cant move wtfOct 6, 20184 votes

What if taking a tower/inhib resets gold value?

BrightWîngsOct 6, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=i cant move wtf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9OcGX1Z5,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-10-06T08:31:47.313+0000)

What if taking a tower/inhib resets gold value?

very interesting idea not sure how that will play out though but by no means not a bad thought what so ever

Bent PixelsOct 5, 20183 votes

LMAO i was just in a game where I had a Sion do this to me, thankfully he was on my team though. I was super tilted at first because he didnt say that he was doing this strat he just started inting. It is a stupid strat and I actually dont know how you can possibly counter it, but if the Sion is on my team, I cant complain

Agent CorgiOct 5, 20182 votes

Can you fill me in on how this "Int. Sion" works? I've got 200k on the Champion & I've never heard of a strategy where Sion just intentionally feeds to win.

The Strategies/Playstyles I play are;

AP Sion mid
Full HP/Smite Mid (Uses demolish, but you don't have to feed to make it work)
Full AD Sion top
Glacial Augment Support (Righteous Glory Rush)
Comet Support/Top (in the event it's a poke lane)

iPooUnicornsOct 5, 20184 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N08sUOWBaVk

Put the speed up to x2

Agent CorgiOct 6, 20185 votes

So it's basically the Full HP/Smite Mid strategy, except there's no Smite involved & it's Toplane as opposed to mid.

You don't have to feed to make that work. All you need is to farm up minions for your [W: Soul Furnace] passive. Play safely & farm up as Sion can use a Fully charged Q & W explosion to farm up waves. Also make sure to Ward your blind spots as Sion has no real mobility, which would result in you being easy pickings for the enemy team. Sion's Engage/Roaming tool, [R: Unstoppable Onslaught], can also be used as an escape tool if you find yourself caught out. At roughly 30%-40% CDR at Rank 3, Sion's ultimate has a cooldown between 36-48 seconds.

Sion has very little mobility outside his ultimate & since he's reliant on farm to make this strategy work, you could bully him & try zoning him from his waves. Treat him as you would Nasus (or even Toplane Heimerdinger), shut him down & finish the game before he scales. Also keep in mind that Sion can do ALOT in teamfghts, knocking people up & Shredding/slowing people with his [E: Roar of the Slayer].

Now as for Sion "Inting", that's on the player, not the champion. Sure, Sion is really good & as matter of fact is considered one of the best tanks in the game. However there shouldn't be any justifiable reason to feed in people's games.

iPooUnicornsOct 6, 20185 votes

It's "inting" because you literally only go for tower/inhib; never group, you force the enemy to respond to you through persistence to the point of inting.

Agent CorgiOct 6, 20186 votes

That's split pushing in a nutshell, but I do understand why it's good (Synergy with Demolish, Grasp of the Undying & Sion's W Passive). Just saying that feeding kills in order to get objectives seems unnecessary to me is all.

Also, sorry about that wall of text. I kinda got carried away.

KaìjuOct 6, 20182 votes

The issue is that it creates an unhealthy pattern. I have won as it and against it. I went 1/16 with some of the most tower damage in the game, and lost to one who went 3/19. You just first by Zz'Rot and auto push maxing Q. The second they back you drop portal with minions or tank it yourself and you just destroy towers. At one point with no minions at all and nearly full tank I took a tower from 100 to 40% with just portal and passive. Split pushing is one thing but Sion literally only needs to proc demolish to out push you compared to someone like Trynd or Shyvana who has to try and force you off the objective.

iPooUnicornsOct 6, 20181 votes

Yes & no, it is very similar to split pushing, but split pushers will TP to their team in the event of a team fight / baron fight. They also will back away from being collapsed on, inting Sion does not do those things.

Spicy RiceOct 9, 20181 votes

The difference between this and splitpushing, is that you can respond to a split push, and prevent them from taking your tower.

All sion needs to do is ult into your tower, demolish, and then keep autoing it, with a zzrot helping.

Need Gold 4 TentOct 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's "inting" because you literally only go for tower/inhib; never group, you force the enemy to respond to you through persistence to the point of inting.

Fits his theme to the T. The undead juggernaut who gives zero fucks to anyone and continuously marches forward, leaving a trail of destruction (turret rubble) in his wake.

Sire HippingtonOct 6, 20181 votes

thats how splitpush works though, you draw the attention of the enemie team towards you by threatening their base, so they either respnd and the rest of you're team has an oppening to take some onjective, or they don't and you eventually grind down their base. Annoying as fuck but not exactly inting or a sion only issue.

AlzonOct 6, 20182 votes

Wait... that’s not actually inting. The guy is generally playing to win, and he’s not taking any unnecessary risks. While it’s not something Riot would be happy about, it’s not exactly ban-worthy either.

Need Gold 4 TentOct 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N08sUOWBaVk

Put the speed up to x2

Before clicking I'm guessing Tilterella.

Edit: Nvm, I was mistaken. But usually only he would do troll stuff like this.

KVbqbFsC8eOct 6, 20182 votes

Playing against Sion in any circumstance is pretty anti fun.

Morgana UltimaOct 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Like I don't know how to explain it any more that that it's just so annoying to play against, even Teemo takes more brain power than this. Both times going up against this I was unfortunately playing a tank at least if I was playing a carry champ I would get fed off him inting but since I was a tank me being fed doesn't really matter especially if I have to sit top and stop him from brainlessly pushing or he will litterally end the game since hes sion his demolish damage is equal to fucking rift herald lol. I'm sorry I hate complaining but this shit is just lame.

You should definitely be able to do something with all the gold he's given you. It's a clever strategy on the part of Sion. Of course since its innovative that means Riot will nerf it. How dare anything creative happen in League!

BrightWîngsOct 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morgana Ultima,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9OcGX1Z5,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-10-06T06:49:48.814+0000)

You should definitely be able to do something with all the gold he's given you. It's a clever strategy on the part of Sion. Of course since its innovative that means Riot will nerf it. How dare anything creative happen in League!

yeah but both times i was a tank so it isnt really that great if i was like garen or something for sure

5050BSOct 6, 20181 votes

Ban Ban Ban

Full BrainOct 6, 20181 votes

That person is just zzrot/demolish split pushing with Sion incorrectly. You should be happy that he is doing something dumb like that because an actual Sion player would likely just be stomping you and taking towers for trying to play a tank into a juggernaut who is going to easily win lane and outscale you in health even if he buys two damage items.

KaìjuOct 6, 20181 votes

Some guy in master tier does it and has about a 56% winrate.

RαyOct 6, 20181 votes

It looks annoying, but it's just casual split push to be honest. He doesn't seem to have that much success with it either.

xxxDogmanxxxOct 7, 20181 votes

item 3153 + item 3036 works really nicely against Sion. Shreds him super fast no matter how much health he has.

BrightWîngsOct 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

+ works really nicely against Sion. Shreds him super fast no matter how much health he has.

playing a tank so unfortunately i cant build these items

COCONUTSTRAW21Oct 7, 20181 votes

i lost to it as 15/4 vayne, (all deaths to zed) so i decided to join in on the fun. 100% wr btw

King LegoOct 5, 2018

Seen it, looks unhealthy. I hope i won't encounter it. However, if you lose against it, you'll still have the right to report him for "inting". For all i know, that strategy may be effective, but at a great cost of a 2 week ban or even perma-ban for inting.

So consider this, you lose to this strategy, just report him and once you get a response about your report, that's you saying that player using the int strat: "this is what you get for playing an effective yet unhealthy strategy!"

KaìjuOct 6, 20181 votes

Master tier player does it with a 56% winrate or so. It isn't bannable since it is a "winning" strategy IE they really are trying, it's just dumb because it abuses his respawn mechanic to just do so much damage to towers.

King LegoOct 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Master tier player does it with a 56% winrate or so. It isn't bannable since it is a "winning" strategy IE they really are trying, it's just dumb because it abuses his respawn mechanic to just do so much damage to towers.

Still would probably report anyway even if effective. It sounds cheating to me. The amount of tilt it would cause, if you lose a match vs a 0/10 Sion who is just running it down pushing while you can't leave base while enemy can take objectives or even push. No thank you.

KFCeytronOct 6, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Lego,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9OcGX1Z5,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-10-06T09:55:54.338+0000)

Still would probably report anyway even if effective. It sounds cheating to me. The amount of tilt it would cause, if you lose a match vs a 0/10 Sion who is just running it down pushing while you can't leave base while enemy can take objectives or even push. No thank you.

Winning isn't a reportable offense.

King LegoOct 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Winning isn't a reportable offense.

Winning may not be a reportable offense, but stuff like this (int sion) and other stupid stuff is what feels like an unfair thing and hence can be reported as "cheating".

KFCeytronOct 6, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Lego,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9OcGX1Z5,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-06T11:43:24.535+0000)

Winning may not be a reportable offense, but stuff like this (int sion) and other stupid stuff is what feels like an unfair thing and hence can be reported as "cheating".

This is on the same level as "his reaction time is so fast that it feels like he's scripting, therefore he is scripting." I'm sorry, but the fact is that this isn't cheating at all and therefore isn't reportable as such. I mean, you can if you want; you can report for any category you want and explain in the text box with a comment of "io4jhio43j@@KMKM<C(#ಠ," but it's not helpful.

TegashOct 6, 20181 votes

That is... not how reporting works actually. And you will devalue your reports doing this.

Pika FoxOct 6, 20181 votes

Your reports dont get devalued anymore afaik with the automated system now in place.

Need Gold 4 TentOct 6, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Lego,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9OcGX1Z5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-05T23:51:37.553+0000)

Seen it, looks unhealthy. I hope i won't encounter it. However, if you lose against it, you'll still have the right to report him for "inting". For all i know, that strategy may be effective, but at a great cost of a 2 week ban or even perma-ban for inting.

So consider this, you lose to this strategy, just report him and once you get a response about your report, that's you saying that player using the int strat: "this is what you get for playing an effective yet unhealthy strategy!"

So why do YOU get to dictate what "healthy" strategy is? It's cucks like you people that make the game get more stale every day as Riot continuously enforces the meta by keeping anything weird out.

King LegoOct 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9OcGX1Z5,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-10-06T08:35:24.902+0000)

So why do YOU get to dictate what "healthy" strategy is? It's cucks like you people that make the game get more stale every day as Riot continuously enforces the meta by keeping anything weird out.

Well i'm sorry i offended you, and i'm all for diversity and weird plays, but sometimes diversity and weird plays are unhealthy. Tank Fizz was fun to play against. Tank Ekko was fun to play against. Xerath Support was fun to play against. Proxy Farming Singed was fun to play against. The list goes on. Keep those on normals and not in ranked then i'm cool with it.

TegashOct 6, 20182 votes

I disagree with branding it as inting. I remember a debacle a while ago where a full tank team won in Ascension by dying consistently. They rushed bami's cinder and prevented the enemy team from taking any objectives (because this required channelling and it would be interrupted if you took damage). And because the enemy team never died, they could never buy items. So the tank team got progressively tankier and won through attrition.

It's an awful, unfun strategy. But it's brilliant in it's exploitation of the game's structure.

The team was eventually banned for inting entirely because of the salty enemy team reporting them. Rather than change the game mode's mechanics, Riot punished a group of individuals for innovating a cunning strategy with 0% loss rate.

And that's a tragedy.

InfernapeOct 6, 20181 votes

And then they got unbanned.

King LegoOct 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I disagree with branding it as inting. I remember a debacle a while ago where a full tank team won in Ascension by dying consistently. They rushed bami's cinder and prevented the enemy team from taking any objectives (because this required channelling and it would be interrupted if you took damage). And because the enemy team never died, they could never buy items. So the tank team got progressively tankier and won through attrition.

It's an awful, unfun strategy. But it's brilliant in it's exploitation of the game's structure.

The team was eventually banned for inting entirely because of the salty enemy team reporting them. Rather than change the game mode's mechanics, Riot punished a group of individuals for innovating a cunning strategy with 0% loss rate.

And that's a tragedy.

Oh the infamous ascension tank! hahahaha To be honest, i can't blame the enemy team. How is this even fun? I would have reported them too anyway. Strategy may mean finding the most effective way to win, but getting something effective that would even piss off the enemy from the amount of frustration? Yeah no thanks. My report button will be at the ready the moment i find out something on the internet about unusual things like this because this non-sense is unacceptable. I tried full tank Vel'Koz once, and was able to one shot while getting no damage. The enemy team got very tilted so i stopped it. I felt like it was cheating though.

Pika FoxOct 6, 20182 votes

I mean, you could report, but it wouldnt do anything. And even if the system did ban him for i ting, riot manual review would override it. Its not reportable, nor is it "cheating".