Let's be honest, last patch was completely retarded in almost every aspect. The only things that made sense were the Janna, Kalista, and Jarvan changes.
But the rest is just... what the hell? Jungle is boned. So much for the only role in this game I like playing.
xLegendary Troll4 votesJungle is too hard yet half of the cast can solo dragon at level 4.
Kitten of Evil1 votesYou exaggerate. It's level 2 or level 3, obviously:
FHMarshy3 votesSo is it my role, what's wrong with it? I think it's perfectly fine.
Btw, last post you posted about the exact same topic had a lengthy discussion, why don't you go read it?
Unless of course you just want to complain and blame riot for you unsuccessful games.
CommanderPirates3 votesJungle is balanced as hell. The crab in the river gives u free 80 gold and vision. You get 2 smites, and buffs from monsters.
How is that broken is any shape way form? RIOT wants us to think about our action like should I smite it or not, and do I need this or not.
Not goes in jungle and "farm", that's way too boring and takes no strategy. This a team based strategy game and every move you make affect you, your team, and the enemy as well. This is the difference between high elo and low elo.
Don't blame your unsuccessful game on RIOT, but think about your own action.
Kitten of Evil4 votesIt's not the smite change that's broken. It's the jungle as a whole. The monsters hit too hard. Raptors especially, but it's a much tougher place for everyone. The upgrade cost was nerfed by 100 gold. Smite's range was reduced.
These changes were all supposedly aimed at reducing the dominance of Lee Sin, J4 and Vi, but they ended up just making it harder for everyone, with a few compensation buffs (Nautilus, for example). Lee, J4 and Vi can all still jungle well in the current jungle, but Eve, Sej, and most ranged junglers now can't make it past 3 camps, and some even struggle to get to the 3rd camp.
rinsujo1 votesI'm going to put in a weird opinion here, and it's going to either provoke a lot of thought, or get a lot of hate. Not sure which, maybe both.
The jungle right now is in a good place, i feel. I like the harder jungle. I like being forced to make decisions about what I'm doing and how i do it. I feel like the jungle is mostly good where it is - with two exceptions.
As is widely posted here on the boards, the handful of champs who don't have to make decisions quite as carefully as the rest - the top tier of jungles need some nerfs. J4 got smacked a little, we'll see how he fares and go from there. Vi and Lee could use a smack too. Because they are strong - and their decisions seem much easier than say, Nunu, trundle, diana, etc. EDIT - then there are the lower tier jungles, like Eve or Wukong who aren't allowed any leeway on decisions - Thanks to ForPortal below for bringing that up. IMHO, those champs need some specific love, not sweeping jungle changes. ENDEDIT.
The experience gap is a touch large. I don't mind being one level behind my sololanes. I do mind being 2 or 3 levels behind. This is tricky to balance though, so if Riot doesn't get to it immediately, that's fine.
The difficulty of the camps though, the smite changes and mini-buffs? I genuinely like those a lot. It increases the strategy involved in playing.
ForPortal3 votesI'll go with "hate". A jungler who cannot reliably earn 450 gold by first back is simply not functional. If you don't have a tier 2 machete by the time you start your second round of clears you have to wait until the third, and that means losing a lot of bonus gold, bonus damage, bonus health and mana regen and whatever secondary effects your chosen Smite provides, which means you are going to be way, way behind.
If the problem was only "Vi is coming into my jungle and stealing my lunch money" then nerfs could be a solution. But it's not - the problem is that even if a top tier jungler doesn't come over to ruin your day, you still have to beat the jungle itself.
rinsujo1 votesI'll certainly concede there are junglers who need some help - Wukong and Eve come to mind, since they can't sustain a single clear without a solid leash AND still have to b the moment they finish. I don't think there are so many champs in that camp anymore though. I think to some extent S3 and S4's attitude of "anyone can jungle!" was a bit too open. Jungle should be difficult. Wukong could probably go back to being a toplaner instead of jungle safely, or he could get some sustain love for the jungle (which would have to be very specific not to push his Toplane too far). Eve... is a mess right now, and i don't play her enough anymore to offer constructive advice. She needs a lot. That kind of stuff should be balanced more on a champ by champ basis, i think, because any more sweeping changes to jungle are going to effect the top tiers too much. Itemization is a good route to pursue though.
My point essentially boils down to - I LIKE having to beat the jungle itself. That's part of the point - Jungling should be more than "Run from lane to lane grabbing camps on the way between constant ganks." Because there's no decision making in that. That's why S3/S4 worlds were all about the jungler.
Kitten of Evil1 votesyou still have to beat the jungle itself.
Basically this. But I wouldn't discount this either
"Vi is coming into my jungle and stealing my lunch money"
As most other junglers, you HAVE to save a smite charge for red if you want to clear 4 camps. That being the case, how difficult is it for Vi or Lee to know that you'll be at 300 HP fighting red? If they have half a brain, you're dead or at least behind because now you have to run around jungle hoping not to get killed, with less than 450 gold in your pocket.
Kitten of Evil1 votesI love the smite charges and mini-buffs. Like you said, they add an aspect of decision-making. And I like jungling after second-clear, when it's much more manageable. The entire problem is the difficulty of the first two clears for many of the current junglers. Every change Riot has made actually weakens these already weak junglers more, and actually remove decision-making. Want to clear 4 camps without dying? Well, you'd better save a smite charge for Red. I cannot make it through 4 camps as Sejuani or Nocturne or Nautilus without smiting red, so I'm always there at the same time in every run... that just telegraphs my position to the enemy jungler if they're smart at all.
It frankly seems like all the changes, that were pitched as "let's reduce the dominance and snowballing of Lee J4 Vi et al", in fact had no effect on those champions but make my tanky junglers struggle even more. Now I have to clear that 4th camp if I want to get a tier 2 item on my first back, and I'm lucky if I can get more than one HP pot. Now I'm stuck with 
all-game because I need it to clear early, and now it costs gold to trade for 
. Now I can't secure objectives as well because smite's range was nerfed, even though I wasn't using it to chill enemies anyway, since I am forced to buy Trailblazer.
AyRe CoNteMpT1 votesjungle broken, muy bien fixo!
magic pole1 votesi think this is riot's way of telling laners to get gud and stop blaming junglers when they go 0-3 by 10 minutes.
early jungle is pretty tough, so you either have to choose your ganks well or farm up and gank a bit later
