Warn players when they pick an intentionally dumpstered champion in ranked

LaughingStapler··2 votes·466 views

Riot has even stated that when they don't know exactly how to balance a champion, they often leave them to rot in the gutter. So, when I get the random Azir from a player not aware of this part of Riot's balance philosophy, it ruins the game. The champion is just so completely shit that it completely skews the team's chances just by virtue of being picked. 43% winrate champions are not just preference and that's why the argument "let them do what they want" falls flat on its face. It has a big negative impact on our ability to win even if played well.

Thus, when Riot chooses the "trash till rehash" balance option, they should inform the players picking the champion with something like "We're currently in the proccess of rebalancing Azir and his performance may not be competitive right now." I basically have to dodge when shit like Azir is picked because he's even worse than Teemo, Malphite, Kog or Sona mid. I have nothing against unorthodox picks. The problem is how completely awful he is (yes, even in Diamond+).

13 Comments

Daddy Braum2 votes

Just because a champion has a bad winrate or reputation it dosent mean that the player is going to be bad get over other peoples picks and see how it plays out its a game if you take a lose then just win the next game

Solidarius2 votes

wtf it dont matter if the champ has a 0.01% win rate that does not mean you cant win with them... I had an Azir in normal game a week or so ago that dominated

dont judge a book by its cover.

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

wtf it dont matter if the champ has a 0.01% win rate that does not mean you cant win with them... I had an Azir in normal game a week or so ago that dominated

dont judge a book by its cover.

So? The fact remains that numbers champions > skill champions. A number strong champion will win 80% of the time against a skill champion at roughly similar skill levels.

Theres a reason you dont pick a skill heavy champion AurelionSolAzir Illaoi into a numbers heavy Irelia FioraGangplank Camille Orianna Xayah LeeSin. Youre just not going to be very effective.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

{quoted}

So? The fact remains that numbers champions > skill champions. A number strong champion will win 80% of the time against a skill champion at roughly similar skill levels.

Theres a reason you dont pick a skill heavy champion AurelionSolAzir Illaoi into a numbers heavy Irelia FioraGangplank Camille Orianna Xayah LeeSin. Youre just not going to be very effective.

That's not true. It only is if your "equal skill" scenario is at very low skill levels. Average win rates is a poor thing to look at alone, you could have a 40% win rate champion still be over powered if it's winning most of the time when played well. Ryze for example has a low average win rate but when you look at skill level you'll see his win rate when played well is higher than that of many other champions. When Ryze was insanely over powered his average win rate wasn't even above 50% either in the past. Average win rate also doesn't take into account the different roles (as people often look at general win rates and not role specific...). Some "mid laners" for instance were seen as 'meh' but had insanely high win rates top lane, but they were mostly being played mid which had dragged the average statistics down for that champion.

Some of the champions you listed as "numbers heavy" actually lose pretty often at lower skill levels too... Fiora for example is around ~45% for average low number games. Then GP has a gap almost as wide as Azir in terms of low vs high. Azir just sits at a lower average than GP due to Azir being mostly picked by those new to Azir. Remember, low pick rate does not mean it's mostly picked by experienced players.

Solidarius1 votes

sry... I dont really understand your reasoning did he got top lane Azir?

I dont play mid lane much so I dont know the matchups but THE very few Azir's i have seen have done really well never really faced one down here in gold that fed.

I understand at very high elo meta is meta and you cant really play anything else though but that does not mean hes a bad pick...

just because a certain champ has a very high win rate does not mean they will automatically do good or carry the game

Doozku1 votes

GP is a numbers heavy champ? And Illoai is skill heavy?

LaughingStapler1 votes

{quoted}

wtf it dont matter if the champ has a 0.01% win rate that does not mean you cant win with them... I had an Azir in normal game a week or so ago that dominated

dont judge a book by its cover.

That doesn't even make sense. You CAN win with anything because there is a lot of randomness in the game and there are 5 players on each team but it doesn't mean that it's not an enormous handicap. You can go Taric mid and win. I've almost done it successfully several times but my contribution to the team compared to a better champion for the role is far lower.

You're acting as if champions are fluffy magical concepts and not related to the team's performance. If Vayne's true damage was nerfed to 1%, you'd see a huge winrate drop. Champions don't exist in this alternate reality where it's just about player skill and you can play any champion in any role. You're thinking about a different game if you believe that. Despite silly notions people want to hold on to, team comp. and champion choice often means more than skill unless it's a dramatic difference. I'll take a bad Annie over a good Azir any day with the state he's in now.

There are many VIABLE off-meta picks. I even stated it. Sona mid sort of works. Malphite mid sort of works. Kog AP mid is OK. There are countless of examples but these champions did NOT get dumpstered with the intent of making them nearly unplayable until a rework comes.

Solidarius1 votes

Look I understand what you are saying "Azir is really weak right now, so dont play him"

my point is that this does not mean YOU CAN NOT WIN BY PLAYING AZIR

you guys take a champions win rate wayyyyyyyyy 2 seriously even if a champ has a really high win rate that does not mean you will win that game like you said there are many factors to a game. for example they say that "The odds of becoming a lightning victim in the U.S. in any one year is 1 in 700,000. The odds of being struck in your lifetime is 1 in 3,000". THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL NOT GET HIT BY FUCKING LIGHTING IT CAN FUCKING HAPPEN.

your pretty much blaming someone else for your loss, hey you picked a champ that has "X" winrate and thats why we lose, your the problem your the "handicap" that is total BS because I gave you a personal example of an Azir having a great fucking game, if he was 100% useless this should not be possible.

lets say I pick Azir mid go 2-0 at 10min and at 15min 2 of my teammates having internet problems disconnect and never come back so we lose the game... is it still Azir pick that caused us to lose?

meta is meta if you only care about winning I suggest you play the current strongest champions in the game it does not effect me but dont ever fucking tell me I cant play a certain champ because it has a low win rate, you also have the option to dodge at champ select.

look I understand everyone hates losing and like to win, if you think that Azir or any other low win rate champ is a handicap dodge the fucking game and deal with it meanwhile I will take my chances.

LaughingStapler1 votes

{quoted}

Look I understand what you are saying "Azir is really weak right now, so dont play him"

my point is that this does not mean YOU CAN NOT WIN BY PLAYING AZIR

you guys take a champions win rate wayyyyyyyyy 2 seriously even if a champ has a really high win rate that does not mean you will win that game like you said there are many factors to a game. for example they say that "The odds of becoming a lightning victim in the U.S. in any one year is 1 in 700,000. The odds of being struck in your lifetime is 1 in 3,000". THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL NOT GET HIT BY FUCKING LIGHTING IT CAN FUCKING HAPPEN.

your pretty much blaming someone else for your loss, hey you picked a champ that has "X" winrate and thats why we lose, your the problem your the "handicap" that is total BS because I gave you a personal example of an Azir having a great fucking game, if he was 100% useless this should not be possible.

lets say I pick Azir mid go 2-0 at 10min and at 15min 2 of my teammates having internet problems disconnect and never come back so we lose the game... is it still Azir pick that caused us to lose?

meta is meta if you only care about winning I suggest you play the current strongest champions in the game it does not effect me but dont ever fucking tell me I cant play a certain champ because it has a low win rate, you also have the option to dodge at champ select.

look I understand everyone hates losing and like to win, if you think that Azir or any other low win rate champ is a handicap dodge the fucking game and deal with it meanwhile I will take my chances.

You're arguing a point only you made. No one disagreed with the idea that it's theoretically possible to win with any champion. In fact, if you pick Azir, you'll win 44% of the time. That has no bearing on the discussion and yes picking a champion like that vs meta champions can be enough to lose the game even with otherwise equal skill between the players. If you're magically misevaluated and are a tier below your true skill, then sure, you can compensate for it. Although, the closer you get to perfect play, the less true that becomes. This is a philosophical concept. I'm not claiming anyone has reached perfect play.

Solidarius1 votes

I dont think you understand what math is.

"In fact, if you pick Azir, you'll win 44% of the time" this is False.

Azir might have a 44% win rate(by some sites and general statistics), but that does not mean when you pick this champ you have a 44% chance of winning a league of legends game... this is what I disagree with your point

I already said I agree with you that he is weak compared to other "meta" champs.

if you wana get to closer to "perfect play" you should learn never to underestimate but we are human and do naturally do this.

LaughingStapler1 votes

{quoted}

I dont think you understand what math is.

"In fact, if you pick Azir, you'll win 44% of the time" this is False.

Azir might have a 44% win rate(by some sites and general statistics), but that does not mean when you pick this champ you have a 44% chance of winning a league of legends game... this is what I disagree with your point

I already said I agree with you that he is weak compared to other "meta" champs.

if you wana get to closer to "perfect play" you should learn never to underestimate but we are human and do naturally do this.

There's no reason for me to assume a random person picking Azir on my team is the next Faker and somehow deviates from the averages. If I see he has a good Azir winrate this season, it's not a problem but there's no basis for thinking it's so without evidence.

Solidarius1 votes

In my opinion I think this is where your problem lies you trust the statistics 2 much... dont get me wrong team comp/teammates/champion win rates are important but there is so much more "factors" that matter in league games.

I am not a very good player, id give myself a 6/10... but I do play a decent amount and in previous seasons I have played more often and I can tell you with 100% certainty there is a factor of "luck" in league games...

I have seen enemy teams that was massively ahead throw games. I have made people rage quit at lvl 1-3, I have myself rage quit at lvl 1-3. I have been in 4v5s that I have WON. I have played with trolls/feeders/afks and even people that run down mid at start of game... I can go on all day but I think you get the point.

Again I do agree with your point I just think its better to have a positive attitude toward the pick than a negative one.

p.s. Does faker even play Azir anymore?

LaughingStapler1 votes

{quoted}

In my opinion I think this is where your problem lies you trust the statistics 2 much... dont get me wrong team comp/teammates/champion win rates are important but there is so much more "factors" that matter in league games.

I am not a very good player, id give myself a 6/10... but I do play a decent amount and in previous seasons I have played more often and I can tell you with 100% certainty there is a factor of "luck" in league games...

I have seen enemy teams that was massively ahead throw games. I have made people rage quit at lvl 1-3, I have myself rage quit at lvl 1-3. I have been in 4v5s that I have WON. I have played with trolls/feeders/afks and even people that run down mid at start of game... I can go on all day but I think you get the point.

Again I do agree with your point I just think its better to have a positive attitude toward the pick than a negative one.

p.s. Does faker even play Azir anymore?

Accepting reality as it doesn't mean I have a bad attitude. I have no reason to think randoms are unique over the statistics.

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