@Meddler, if you still care about the state of ADC

doublelift fg··64 votes·3,285 views

Twitch needs a worse early game Jhin needs something else than a damage nerf Vayne ebola didn't get fixed, still spiking with crit items, still an assassin having an undodgeable old talon lvl of burst which shouldn't be allowed and according to your logic vayne should spike in late game. either remove the crit from her Q, or makes her crit for a reduced damage just like yasuo/master yi Caitlyn i don't understand why her late game is as good as tristana while being a lane bully

those 4 have the highest win rate above diamond and master, then again we don't balance around "high elo"

item 3085 has an issue, the same problem Rylai had too much cost efficient with a passive that allows you to: -waveclear -damage multiple targets while critting -applies effects in AOE like Ashe Caitlyn Twitch Varus Jinx (Q)Kalista KogMaw WHICH SHOULD BE THE NICHE and not a stat stick item you rush and win laning phase item 3153 is fine , most ADC mains didn't even realise that this item now exists and is overpowered against high hp targets.

Lucian the buff you gave him is enough, thanks Draven what the hell are you trying to do on this guy? people might not know but it's a huge freaking buff you're giving to him. -20 mana cost on his W alone is a lot, combined with the fact that his Q loses no damage at lvl 1 while earning something like +60 damage in late game so why are you buffing draven? Kalista should not be buffed Varus thanks for your buff his passive is good now, but i still hate this passive because you depend on killing someone

78 Comments

The Yetii Rider30 votes

Meddler is busy worrying about junglers hitting level 3 in two camps and encouraging Shaco mains to quit the game.

DarkRitual18 votes

I am in favor of fewer Shaco Mains.

TequilaZombie11 votes

As a Shaco main, I'm happy that we make you feel this way. This is exactly why we play the champ <3

DarkRitual10 votes

Happy we can agree that Shaco mains are terrible people [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

TequilaZombie5 votes

Indeed we are! We're a step under Teemo mains, as they use the champion to annoy even their own team, and one step above Yasuo/Riven/Vayne players, who initially used their champions to look cool.

Avios15 votes

As a Teemo Main, I can confirm.

aspects11 votes

shaco mains annoy their team as well. no one likes a shaco, but the shaco the enemies dont like him because he ganks a ton, and is really hard to counterplay, and allies dont llike him because your bound to lose since his teamfight is so bad. its the best part of being a shaco main :)

ShadowParker3 votes

Are you claiming that jugglers reaching level 3 in two camps wasn't a problem?

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

Are you claiming that jugglers reaching level 3 in two camps wasn't a problem?

No, I am truthfully stating that Meddler is focused on jungle balance and assassin balance at the moment, not ADC.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Hlswyq4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-12-14T17:21:26.700+0000)

Meddler is busy worrying about junglers hitting level 3 in two camps and encouraging Shaco mains to quit the game.

Shaco was a 55% winrate right now.

Acting like they're being biased against Shaco is silly right now.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Well, they removed his AD build, and now they're nerfing the AP build. So what is Shaco supposed to do?

Also, there's nerfing, and there's overkill. Shaco is losing 200 base damage on his rank 3 ult. That's insane.

japan hate acc1 votes

But his ult isn't used for damage

MunchCrunchLunch12 votes

I hope riot balances adcs with regard to other classes instead of balancing adces around themselves. because that just creates a stagnant meta.

Sanctimonious10 votes

item 3085 Revert this item rito pls

Silverjust2 votes

I think nerfing the ratio on the bonus arrows should be enough

Spoofghoul2 votes

u mean just revert the change and everything is fine

maybe lower the attackspeed to 50%

since it also has the on hit and movespeed compared to pre rework

maybe then its fine

Silverjust1 votes

what do you mean with

lower the attackspeed to 50%

it has an attackspeed of 40% and the onhit is not new.

What do you think, on what champions/ what situations should it be built?

Spoofghoul1 votes

prior to the items ''major change''

it used to be just 70% attackspeed with the additional bolts dealing 50% ad damage

so revert back to that basically

then change the attack speed to 50% instead and let it keep the 7% movement and 15 on hit

it would be good for on hit champions and for ad carries with a special interaction like caitlyn, jinx, ashe, twitch

Those carries with special interactions basically get the zeal deal + additonal attacks to apply extra effects like more headshots more aoe rockets 3 x spray and pray etc

Right now its too easy to use this as a replacement for any other zeal item then build the 2 big AD crit items and get 70% crit With the ability to apply those crits & lifesteal to 2 additional targets without sacrificing anything for it really

Sanctimonious1 votes

These champions were balanced before the change. No need to add additional AOE / On Hit to these champions kits. I'd also like Kayle not to be balanced around this absurd monstrosity item 3124 .

Saianna8 votes

Meddlers way of thinking:

Broken ADC = happy ADC

HazyCloud77 votes

Very reasonable post.

Troll for Trump3 votes

When was the last time Draven was meta?

Draven's supposed to be a hard counter to vayne. Sometime ago(last season), Vayne began surpassing her counter in the matchups.

Currently sitting at 52.46% wr against Draven, a lane bully.

Lategame hypercarries should never be able to beat lane bullies. Same with Yasuo

doublelift fg6 votes

Implying that draven isn't a late game hyper carry

wtf? he's on as+ms steroid permanently, and his autoattacks melt everyone in front of him "when draven was in the meta" you don't need to be in the meta to be good again wtf is this argument

draven is probably the hardest ad carry i ever saw, if you have his mechanics you're strong at all point of the game

"vayne has 52.46% against draven" that's because after bullying her in lane vayne buys 2 items and oneshot draven, it has nothing to do with laning phase, and further more it's not a problem that draven has but a problem that vayne has.

Troll for Trump4 votes

Thing is his carrying is feast/famine. Either useless or unstoppable, from my experience, and the games I've seen with him.

VasilisGreen1 votes

Draven's AAs melted anyone back in the Last Whisper era, when Crit Draven was actualy a thing. After that, Draven had to go for max flat pen just to be viable. You understand that the damage lost in the proccess is HUGE

Rozzeta3 votes

That's a problem with Vayne, rather than Draven being weak.

SpongebobIsLife2 votes

really dont think twitch is op or anything...just that the adcs that have kept him in check in lane are doing bad.

Venomar3 votes

This is an issue as well, but in a single stroke riot made him broken as fuck by changing his W and Q stealth activation. He now has zoning potential and a strong lane phase on a previously weak laning ADC tuned for late game hyper carry. It's not an issue of numbers anymore, he went from being good adc with clearly defined strengths and weaknesses to God tier with a perfect kit. He now has kit issues, which is really sad because riot has shown clear ineptitude when dealing with hero's who have overloaded kits and he probably won't ever be resolved and always strong now until the inevitably dumpster him through a series of nerfs and the it's rip Twitch.

Silly Neeko1 votes

You only referenced ashe and jinx. They feel left out. Same with Urgot who i just played with and who i was blitz supporting just the other day and we stomped lane a little hard....

doublelift fg10 votes

Ashe isn't left out, in my eyes she is good when i see her in game Her damage is a LITTLE bit lower than an ADC but that's because she has massive utility

and jinx left out? where are you living?

TequilaZombie2 votes

Urgot is a ranged Juggernaut, not an ADC.

Drahcir1 votes

Urgot is more Bruiser than juggernaut.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Isn't every champion who builds HP and Damage a Bruiser? And juggernauts are just some immobile high damage really tanky Bruisers?

Because Urgod deals some disgusting damage, as well as being really tanky due to his Mana Shield + 15% damage reduction and bonus resistances with ult.

Drahcir1 votes

generally juggernauts are melee, lack CC and have a hard time sticking to enemies, so i hesitate to call urgot a juggernaut just because he's tanky.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Urgot is easy to be kited and relies on his E to be able to deal damage, he has a very situational CC (even more situational than Darius's E). If he were a melee champion he'd be called a Juggernaut without hesitation.

TS Media1 votes

What buff did lucian get? o.o And I don't mind the Draven buffs. He's the feast or famine adc and has a really weird, I mean, really weird power curve. Evening that out is definitely good in my eyes.

doublelift fg6 votes

Q damage increased passive damage increased at lvl 1

SnugglePuggle941 votes

Kalista is on their radar and getting buffs soon. What about Sivir ?

doublelift fg3 votes

{quoted}

What about Sivir ?

in my opinion same thing with ashe, both have lower damage than a hypercarry for their utility but still do a decent amount of damage if you were to buff sivir and ashe you have to buff their utility to increase their niche instead of making them good at everything

Tristana though i think she might need a buff not even sure, if Caitlyn gets nerfed she can become better

AirKingNeo1 votes

Twitch is fine. Jhin is fine. Vayne is fine because she's back to 3 months ago, except every other ADC sucks. Cait has been fine stop thinking you know balance. Lucian needs more buffs. Draven needs small buffs but I can agree it's too massive. Varus is fine. Trist and Kog? They need buffs. MF needs buffs. Stop trying to say ADC is so broken when they are the weakest class.

doublelift fg8 votes

55% win rate in high elo and they are fine XD "back to 3 months ago" i checked and 3 months ago vayne didn't build full crit

"stop thinking you know balance", i don't even know if you know english

"weakest class" i can play adc perfectly and manage to win perfectly, i'm sorry if they are the weakest class, maybe you should stop being weak at them

AirKingNeo2 votes

"back to 3 months ago" i checked and 3 months ago vayne didn't build full crit

No she built BoRK. BoRK was buffed and Vayne has had no changes compared to 3 months ago. She's not building BoRK.

I do know how to speak English. Hence the reason why I put a comma before the end quote, periods at the end of my sentence, and capitalize the first letter in English.

AD Carry is the weakest class. This is a fact backed statistics. Those who advert their eyes from the truth have no right to speak.

Best princess EU6 votes

then i think you probably have no right to speak and should leave this game

if you combine the pick rate of every adc you will get 100%, a class that is weak won't be picked everytime

NO MATTER WHAT IS THE REASON THAT MAKES THEM PICKED EVERYTIME FACT IS THAT THIS THING THAT MAKES THEM PICKED EVERYTIME MAKES THEM STRONG ELSE WE WOULDN'T PICK THEM

i wrote with caps so you can understand :^)

AirKingNeo3 votes

ADC is a required class. So is support. Does this make ADC good? No. But you have to run it.

Just shut up. Saying ADC is a good class despite over 60% of all ADCs having negative winrates is sheer stupidity.

doublelift fg5 votes

support isn't a class

get to the list of Riot and tell me where do you see support All ADC having a negative (what the fuck?) win rate is because there are a bunch of overpowered adc right now having 55% win rate and more

Kharn Skyshatter3 votes

{quoted}

Twitch is fine. Jhin is fine. Vayne is fine because she's back to 3 months ago, except every other ADC sucks. Cait has been fine stop thinking you know balance. Lucian needs more buffs. Draven needs small buffs but I can agree it's too massive. Varus is fine. Trist and Kog? They need buffs. MF needs buffs. Stop trying to say ADC is so broken when they are the weakest class.

3 months ago Vayne wasn't critting on tumble. Now she is so if they want to keep that then she needs to lose power elsewhere in either W or R.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Noooo. Her tumble could always crit. All they did was make it so if her auto crits her Q bonus crits instead of her Q bonus damage rolling itself for if it crits. Effectively, a nerf.

PB4UAME1 votes

Nope! It used to be that her aa and the bonus damage rolled for crit separately, this far you are correct. However, and this is a big however, her bonus damage crit could only apply if the aa itself did.

She went from having 2 out of 4 possible roles be you get no crits, 1 of 4 rolls being only the regular aa crits, and 1 roll of everything crits.

Now, either everything crits, or it doesn't. In effect, adding .25(critchance)(.50)(AD)(critmultiplier) damage to her tumble on average.

Sightless661 votes

She went from having 2 out of 4 possible roles be you get no crits, 1 of 4 rolls being only the regular aa crits, and 1 roll of everything crits.

That's not actually correct. In actuality, what happened is that any roll for the base damage led to a crit for the base damage but not the bonus damage, whereas a roll for the bonus damage but not the base damage led to a crit for both. The only way to not have a crit was to roll a crit for neither. I'm going to link you to a reddit post explaining in more detail how the crit calculation actually worked.

In essence, this meant that old Vayne actually had a higher average damage from crit anytime she had less than 67% crit. This is why her winrate actually dropped 3% on the patch where the crit bugfix was applied, despite her seeing no increase in playrate, and despite it being paired with a buff allowing the Q to hit towers. It didn't go up again either until her Q was buffed.

The bugfix was a nerf. No other way to view it.

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