He's the "teamfight mage" that one shots in a 1v1 and then goes on to carry teamfights, his base damage is so high people play him as support, he has hard CC, he has unmatched AoE damage, he has no significant cooldowns, he's half targeted, he abuses the hell out of Liandry's...
So why hasn't he been nerfed?
undesirable team2 votescause you can dodge 2/4 of his buttons
Onotori1 votesNot when he has a Rylai's and E>Qs you to auto win.
Professor Ward3 votesNot when he has a Rylai's and E>Qs you to auto win.
if hes getting in range for his e freely then you already lost.
Onotori1 votesHis E matches the range of plenty of mids, so. : /
Plus, he can just W (and miss) then E the wave he hit, and you're on fire. Then he Q > Ults and you die.
HalcyonDweller1 votesHis E is short range. If he's in range to cast E on you you should either unload your damage on him or you shouldn't have been that close to him.
Onotori1 votes"Short range" compared to what? Xerath? Then yeah.
HalcyonDweller1 votesBrand's E is his point and click basic spell, with a range of 625. It's got a cast animation. In order to cast it on you he has to walk into pick range where your team can hit him, and he gets no mobility to help him with that.
Xerath's E is Shocking Orb, with 1050 range. Everything is shorter than that. And it doesn't require you to walk into pick-range of the enemy team to make use of it. Brand's E is 625, meaning he has to be that close to the enemy team to use it. THEN Brand can use his Q, which is a skillshot with a MUCH slower missile speed but similar range to Xerath's E.
It's not comparable to Xerath at all. Don't put words in my mouth.
Kivolan2 votesBiggest problem is his % health damage.
Which they recently buffed.
And then buffed Liandry's (like lolwut I enjoy abusing this item on Vel'koz but it was literally made for Brand).
Though honestly, he's fine in 5v5s when he pops like a pimple. Main place he's an issue in is 3s.
Onotori1 votesI don't understand why they buffed him so much with the mage update a while back, and then just kept on buffing him. He was already cancer, now he's just god tier cancer.
FOR JUSTICE1 votescan I see builds of the last few times you played vs him? or an op.gg?
yZfYArlene1 votesHe has no Mobility which is pretty big negative for him.
He relies a decent amount on skillshots
His damage is pretty nutty but his 1v1's aren't that good until he gets Rylais
MorganFreemanBot1 votesBrand's weakness is having 0 defenses and being totally immobile.
His E (I think that's the projectile?) should probably function like Xerath's; the stun should reduce at close range because, currently, diving him is super dangerous due to eating a two second stun, but other than that he's fine.
Onotori1 votesBrand's weakness is having 0 defenses and being totally immobile.
... so why did we horribly gut Zoe, then? She has 0 defenses and is entirely immobile, does less damage than Brand, and is all skillshots instead of only half skillshots.
And, I don't think Brand should have a stun at all, with how much damage he does and how he's half targeted.
Professor Ward2 votes... so why did we horribly gut Zoe, then? She has 0 defenses and is entirely immobile, does less damage than Brand, and is all skillshots instead of only half skillshots.
And, I don't think Brand should have a stun at all, with how much damage he does and how he's half targeted.
Thats absolute bullshit top to bottom. In comparison to brand, zoe is a falcon with rockets tied to its teets, flying with the wind of a category 5 hurricane.
Onotori1 votesSo how come I've never once lost lane or died solo to a Zoe, but Brand has a field day just winning lanes and one shotting people?
I've also only ever seen like two Zoe players carry, but countless Brands carry.
Professor Ward1 votesSo how come I've never once lost lane or died solo to a Zoe, but Brand has a field day just winning lanes and one shotting people?
I've also only ever seen like two Zoe players carry, but countless Brands carry.'
Tons of reasons could be to blame, im guessing its because every single facet of zoes kit is harder to execute than brands. That has nothing to do with how mobile she is in comparison.
Onotori1 votes"Mobile" in what way? Her teleport that basically roots her in place for 2 seconds, and brings her back to where she was?
MorganFreemanBot1 votes... so why did we horribly gut Zoe, then? She has 0 defenses and is entirely immobile, does less damage than Brand, and is all skillshots instead of only half skillshots.
And, I don't think Brand should have a stun at all, with how much damage he does and how he's half targeted.
Because people bitched and moaned enough.
Also, Zoe's E was an incredibly broken mechanic, despite the rest of her kit being nothing to write hope about. It's augmented status over walls, as well as the fact that the cooldown basically reset when it hit, AND it leaving a trap behind, was a combination destined to be broken.
Onotori1 votesSee, I've never had issues with Zoe's E. She has a massive windup on cast, and it's pretty easy to see a giant purple ball flying through a wall, meaning it's pretty easy to dodge.
HalcyonDweller1 votesThat comparison is a non-starter. Don't equate Zoe to Brand. Her E is way more powerful than his stun, and her Q burst has a lot more range than Brand's spells. They have different strengths, and Zoe was gutted because she was a problem, they're already looking to buff her back up now that they have solved the problems though.
Onotori1 votesShe was never a problem though, not in the slightest if you had a functioning brain and could read telegraphs.
Brand, however, has been a problem for years and they continually buff him despite it.
HalcyonDweller1 votesif you had a functioning brain and could read telegraphs.
Excuse me? That was a baseless personal attack. If you have a functioning brain you'll keep that primitive bullshit out of the rest of this discussion.
Onotori1 votesA baseless personal attack...? You need to just step away from the keyboard if you're that fragile.
I'm saying, in general, the literal only reason you should ever take a hit from Zoe is if you let her hit you. If you are capable of thought, and have working eyeballs, then you can dodge everything she does except her passive autos, and automatically win lane since she's squishy and has no escape.
HalcyonDweller1 votesI've been over this so many times with people. You can't dive Zoe if her E is up because she will just point-blank you with it. It discourages trying to fight her because in initiating the fight you give her the initiative to use Sleepy Trouble Bubble with much better chances of hitting you.
And she was a problem, because the way her abilities functioned and the way her E cooldown was refunded, she was extremely anti-fun. The nerfs were warranted. Now that she's had her problems fixed, Riot is able to buff her in 8.5 without risking her power-level missing the target because of buffs and nerfs happening in the same patch.
Can we get back to brand?
Onotori1 votesSo, what about the ~1s windup on her E, the loud noise on cast, and the fact that she faces the direction it's goinna go? Pretty easy to dodge to the side when she starts to cast it, and then you continue deleting her since she can't get away from people. As I said, if you are capable of both sight and thought, you have no excuse to ever get hit by her.
She wasn't a problem, no. She just punished you for not exercising counterplay, and people don't want to admit they're bad, so they whined and complained about how "broken" she was until she got nerfed into the ground. Funny thing is, Zoe is just as capable of one shotting people despite the nerfs, but no one complains anymore -- meaning she was never actually broken, hm.
And the point of this thread was to call attention to an actual broken champ and compare it to Zoe. So...
HalcyonDweller1 votesSo, what about the ~1s windup on her E, the loud noise on cast, and the fact that she faces the direction it's goinna go? Pretty easy to dodge to the side when she starts to cast it, and then you continue deleting her since she can't get away from people. As I said, if you are capable of both sight and thought, you have no excuse to ever get hit by her.
Landing skillshots, even ones that offer tells like the windup and noise, is easy if you time it when your opponent is occupied or committed to an action that makes them unable to dodge. It's easy to catch people when they go for CS or when they use a dash to try to make any sort of play.
Second, it's pretty hard to juke something when you're right in front of her because of trying to dive / pick her as a diver or an assassin. In this way she has the same problem as Brand, in that her CC is just as effective at close range as it is at long-range.
She wasn't a problem, no. She just punished you for not exercising counterplay, and people don't want to admit they're bad, so they whined and complained about how "broken" she was until she got nerfed into the ground. Funny thing is, Zoe is just as capable of one shotting people despite the nerfs, but no one complains anymore -- meaning she was never actually broken, hm.
I didn't think Zoe was broken. I thought she was anti-fun. There is a huge difference in that. The way her trouble-bubble works it has zoning power, potential for bonus range, essentially 4.2 seconds of cc (2 ish of slow, and 2 ish of sleep paralysis), and it is a HUGE disincentive against trying to dive onto her. And even if you're ranged she could just fish for successful E's until she got one. Combine that with the Q damage and you wound up with an undodgeable Q that chunked you for way too much HP. Her E took away the counterplay from her Q, and it was made far worse by how much damage she could do with it even early in the game. Part of the problem is that her Q is supposed to be juke-able, but when she lands E, her Q loses the counterplay that balanced it's high damage out.
And the point of this thread was to call attention to an actual broken champ and compare it to Zoe. So...
You keep calling Brand broken because of his range, that's ridiculous because his range isn't the problem. The only problem with Brand is that he fucks over melees, like MorganFreemanBot said. And no, the point of this thread wasn't to compare Brand to Zoe, or you would have done it in the original post. No, what you keep doing is bringing up other champions every time someone corners a point and you don't want to give in. You're like a master of "tu quoque," using variants of the fallacy to cover for an unwillingness to genuinely discuss the problems.
Teslyn1 votesRiot likes Brand.
compare him to Zyra. they just give her 1 shotted plants and a piss poor snare.
MorganFreemanBot1 votesRiot likes Brand.
compare him to Zyra. they just give her 1 shotted plants and a piss poor snare.
Zyra's had a history of being one of the most oppressive laners in the game, Brand has never really had time in the sun or been 'good'.
Not to mention that Zyra's plants, when they take 3 autos to kill, are probably the most cancerous anti-melee mechanic in the game.
HalcyonDweller1 votesBrand's projectile won't stun unless he sets you on fire first, trust me it's plenty of counterplay.
His Q is the projectile. His E is the single target burn, and it is targeted, which maybe could use some more counterplay, seeing as it makes Q+E combos pretty unavoidable up close.
MorganFreemanBot1 votesBrand's projectile won't stun unless he sets you on fire first, trust me it's plenty of counterplay.
His Q is the projectile. His E is the single target burn, and it is targeted, which maybe could use some more counterplay, seeing as it makes Q+E combos pretty unavoidable up close.
Which is the problem. I'm not looking at his Q (I guess that's it) as the only thing that stuns, but it's not exactly hard to set someone on fire with his single target point-and-click.
HalcyonDweller1 votesI see what you're talking about, I think that maybe things would be better if it weren't point-and-click. That said it is fairly short in range, so he can't exactly make picks with it.
MorganFreemanBot1 votesI see what you're talking about, I think that maybe things would be better if it weren't point-and-click. That said it is fairly short in range, so he can't exactly make picks with it.
............
Again, I stated that the problem was point blank. Brand is supposed to be weak to dives / gap closers, but he's almost impossible to dive in a 1v1 scenario because of the ease with which he can land his stun, which is 2 seconds. The entire point was that his stun should, similar to Xerath, have diminishing returns within a certain range; so that diving him isn't a death sentence without being massively ahead.
HalcyonDweller1 votesAlright, I'm onboard with you. I'm in support of doing something about the cc-to-range ratio.
SooFr0sty1 votesIt's only a 1.5 second stun post mage rework.
AirKingNeo1 votesBecause he isn't powered. That's why he isn't nerfed.