I posted points about a broken system of MMR in bronze... and the only people who argued against me... weren't in bronze... lol
Who agree's That there is a problem with the MMR in all parts but largely in Bronze.
Binxy Prime4 votesBronze has a lot of variance because as soon as one person learns even kind of how to play they climb really fast and tend to carry games in a bit of a stomp. Honestly if you are in Bronze its because your understanding is super low or your mechanics are insanely bad (you dont last hit well, you dont aim skillshots correctly, you missjudge damage in trades etc), likely both.
Once you actually take time to improve your knowledge and play enough games getting out of bronze is pretty easy. My advice is to pick 1 champion with simple mechanics like Darius or Annie and play only that champ as much as possible until you learn enough to climb. Work on warding, watching the map, last hitting, trading in lane when the opponent is going for cs.
Record your games so you can compare. Watch high levels games of your chosen champion to learn how they trade.
Bananaboy121 votes[{quoted}](name=Binxy Prime,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9E2VAomL,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-08-17T21:02:36.593+0000)
Bronze has a lot of variance because as soon as one person learns even kind of how to play they climb really fast and tend to carry games in a bit of a stomp. Honestly if you are in Bronze its because your understanding is super low or your mechanics are insanely bad (you dont last hit well, you dont aim skillshots correctly, you missjudge damage in trades etc), likely both.
Once you actually take time to improve your knowledge and play enough games getting out of bronze is pretty easy. My advice is to pick 1 champion with simple mechanics like Darius or Annie and play only that champ as much as possible until you learn enough to climb. Work on warding, watching the map, last hitting, trading in lane when the opponent is going for cs.
Record your games so you can compare. Watch high levels games of your chosen champion to learn how they trade.
Dude this is G&B forum, how dare you make a relevant and truthful post to our bronze overlords.
SP Dodgecity1 votesLol please, troll be gone, troll be gone
SP Dodgecity1 votesAgain, assuming im a bad player is a complete cop-out of the argument. Any accusation that it is due to my performance personally can only be derived by play games personally with me or against me to determine that.
Because I already practice all of those.
You don't take into account -people trolling you out of your role that you pick only to do -people quiting the game -new players learning how to do those great aspects in ranked -DC'ers who cause enormous pressure.
There are soooo many variable more than just "you suck do better"
That is a straight cop-out.
Binxy Prime2 votesim looking at your op.gg right now
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Shadowplague95
Cons
You average KDA is 2.39 which is below average, you should be aiming for around 3, this means you die too often, which is obvious since you tend to die 8-10 times every game consistently.
Your cs is low, you average about 4-5 cs per minute on mid lane, compare to Voyboy who averages 6-8.3cs per minute, in a 30 minute game you could have 1800 more gold from just CS, that is the equivalent of 6 kills or 4 kills and 4 assists.
Pros Your average damage to champs is reasonable for the positions you are playing in Your champ pool is reasonably sized and your picks are pretty meta Your item builds are good (mostly)
If you work on dying less and csing a little bit better you will climb steadily, I am assuming based on your damage dealt that your team fighting is okay, but if most of your deaths are in teamfights then you need to work on disengaging at the right times. For instance if I am on kennen, I am going to ult and then save zhonya to dodge some skills, once my ult ends and my zhonyas is about to drop I quickly look at the scope of the fight and see if my team needs me to die for them to do a little more damage, if I should try to chase a person or if its safe for me to kite back and throw some safe q's. I don't want to die and give back gold and if we ace and I am alive I can contribute to taking objectives after the fight, towers drags, baron etc.
Your WW build needs a little work, I would try skipping wits end to become tankier sooner and you will notice you do a lot more in fights.
SP Dodgecity1 votesYour are including the matches I have won correct? Like the 11/1 and 11/3 or so???
Your including the loss from the games that got trolled. But I appreciate your advice alot, ill defiantly implement it into my game play. Does the cs count from jg as well? Alot of games i've been forced to use champs I don't usually use I main Adc so I haven't practiced much with their attack animations and damage scale. Ill practice more with melee champions and on my last hitting.
Binxy Prime1 votesI am including all of your matches, I went to op.gg and I just clicked a few random games to see your damage whether you won or lost. The average stats I can see by looking on the left at your 10 most played champs. There are a LOT of different skills to learn if you want to get really good. The easiest ones to tell if you are doing right or wrong is csing and trading. The rest are things like wave control, proper warding, knowing who when what where how and why to teamfight. Maximing the gold you are getting based on the situation and things like that. Optimizing your damage rotation.
For instance if you wait a certain fraction of time before taking your ult as Yasuo on a knockup if you have enough attack speed you can get a q in while they are stunned from your ult because it has just enough time to come off CD, things like that.
SP Dodgecity1 votesThanks I appreciate the feedback. Ill start including that into my gameplay
rtbf307804111 votes[deleted]
hh the thinker1 votesAs compared to voyboy? who is what? challenger? so the difference between challenger and bronze 5 is 2.5cs per minute (about 33%)? And the entirety of the ranked system sorts the cream from the milk over 33% increase in cs/min and .5kda. Yep, there aren't a lot of people getting fucked at all.
That's right kids, if you are 2/3 the skill level of a pro, you get to play with all the people who are 1/100th the skill level of a pro! Don't forget to have fun in this challenging atmosphere where you will learn a new style of play that won't work once you climb to a new level. Oh, and remember don't forget to have fun! It is LOL after all!
you also have to remember that you face easier players and can actually get higher cs someone in challenger if that's your main focus. csing is just one skill and it's very easy. bronze is the easiest rank to actually cs in since other team rarely harasses, or they mess up on the harassing.
rtbf307804111 votes[deleted]
Binxy Prime1 votesI was bronze once, I even did really poor in my placements last season I went something like 1-9 and fell from plat 1 to silver. I lost some games in silver until I decided to use my game knowledge to direct my team more efficiently and try harder. I even carried when I had to support, mostly with Alistar.
I'm telling you 100% that if you are plat level you can carry silver games easily and gold until you get to plat, Once you are closer to your true elo its harder to carry games, if the games feel like luck then you are either A) close to your true elo and need to improve to climb or B) you havent played enough games to be properly placed.
rtbf307804112 votes[deleted]
SP Dodgecity1 votesI agree, First season I got stuck in 5, the next i got stuck in b2, the next i got stuck in b3. I play my hardest and I research champions, I practice in custom and bots matches, i try my best to understand the meta.. then some troll comes along and ruins a series match for me and im right back in the same loop.
Thanks for commenting
EchoBlue2 votesI was in bronze 5 and my mmr was rock bottom, but this season I climbed up to silver 4. Its just a matter of learning to play and getting better.
SP Dodgecity1 votesI get that I honestly do, and keep trying really. But that doesn't mean the system isn't in need of improvement.
It could be better easily.
There are huge factors that go into it that need to be looked into, discussed, and applied.
SP Dodgecity1 votesYou assume that Im bad at the game, again spectate 10 games of mine in a row and determine that yourself. It is inaccurate to assume that I am in need of insane improvements with out watching me play multiple matches
Enosetc2 votesyou don't state what the problem specifically is or how it can be solved... ofc people disagree
SP Dodgecity1 votesIm sorry I just tried this earlier and stated everything I possibly could.. and no one cared, they just said "you suck, get better"
No one takes your word on it. They assume your bad and that your points are invalid automatically no matter if they're true or false
hh the thinker1 votesIm sorry I just tried this earlier and stated everything I possibly could.. and no one cared, they just said "you suck, get better"
No one takes your word on it. They assume your bad and that your points are invalid automatically no matter if they're true or false
see, I focus on the point being talked about. I still quite don't understand what problem you are talking about though. if it's the matter of getting out of bronze, it's fairly easy (much more so than people believe when their skill level is close to it).
if you think it's because of trolls and such, you get trolls all the way to diamond so don't expect that to be different, bronze is just the easiest to carry trolls in. I've played from bronze 3 to gold 2 myself and didn't have much trouble so far, it's just a matter of self improvement.
all the people I've seen that say they play better than their rank fail to understand the things they do badly or wrong. I point it out and either they fix it and climb, or they say they don't want to change that "playstyle" for them and they continue to find it hard.
rtbf307804111 votes[deleted]
hh the thinker1 votesYeah, I know. It's League of this is a team game, but not really. And league of we have 126 champions but only 10 of them are going to get you anywhere.
no, I've carried even with taric support while I was playing in bronze. if you play a champ good enough, you will climb and it doesn't matter what champ. I've played shen top and sion top and other tanks. I've played a lot of different things, whatever I wanted to improve on really.
rtbf307804111 votes[deleted]
hh the thinker1 votesYou know, you are a positive person, that's good, but your stories hold less and less water.
I don't really care if people believe me or now. often the supports in bronze will build something like sunfire and other self buffing items instead og helping their team as the support. I just made it really hard for the other team to kill my adc or who ever was the best chance of winning games. I'm not saying I can carry every game as taric support, but I am saying I can give my adc a lead early on and greatly improve the chance of winning the game as a whole.
I main support so carrying as taric for me is actually easier than playing something like LB.
SP Dodgecity1 votesI've heard this a million times. Please understand. Take my word on it. I have been studying how to improve for a very long time. I know I'm not the best, I know I'm not MLG material. I know that I can improve. LIKEWISE the MMR system has room to improve.
Assuming that all my problems moving up have only to do with me being flat out bad at League in not valid unless you personally spectated 10 games. To see how I play. Does that make sense? Assuming that its completely do to my personal ability is a cop-out to the real issue.
I do however understand that I haven't explained my points in this chat. To be honest its a fairly long list that no one will give the light of day.
But here it goes
I've had over 5 series matches to move up the ladder. In each of these series matches I've had someone disconnect, troll, do terrible plays, etc.
The point is right now the only way to rank up is to -Grind hundreds of games -Hope to never get a troll -Hope to never get anyone new -Hope to get all players with good connections -Be 3x better than everyone in your league (Which is good and bad because you end up playing against better people, making it harder to move up, you play against a higher tier without actually being in that teir) -The problems in Bronze are much more prominent than in higher tiers because people in higher teirs care a little bit more than those in bronze. The problems are still there but they are more likely to happen in bronze.
-The actions of 4 random people determine the rating of which determines if I am "good" or "bad" at the game instead of how I actually perform.
I understand that it is not completely due to other people, that you do have to practice last hitting, positioning, countering, building adjustments to game, mechanics, ability combos with your support if your a ADC main (like me)
I get that I realize I am not perfect at the game, but I do the best I possibly can at the game and I research, experiment, and practice.
Its getting me nowhere because this system is largely based off, grinding, lucky, and then skill.
You get lucky to have no trolls, you grind for high MMR, and you use basic league strategy.
hh the thinker1 votesI've heard this a million times. Please understand. Take my word on it. I have been studying how to improve for a very long time. I know I'm not the best, I know I'm not MLG material. I know that I can improve. LIKEWISE the MMR system has room to improve.
Assuming that all my problems moving up have only to do with me being flat out bad at League in not valid unless you personally spectated 10 games. To see how I play. Does that make sense? Assuming that its completely do to my personal ability is a cop-out to the real issue.
I do however understand that I haven't explained my points in this chat. To be honest its a fairly long list that no one will give the light of day.
But here it goes
I've had over 5 series matches to move up the ladder. In each of these series matches I've had someone disconnect, troll, do terrible plays, etc.
The point is right now the only way to rank up is to -Grind hundreds of games -Hope to never get a troll -Hope to never get anyone new -Hope to get all players with good connections -Be 3x better than everyone in your league (Which is good and bad because you end up playing against better people, making it harder to move up, you play against a higher tier without actually being in that teir) -The problems in Bronze are much more prominent than in higher tiers because people in higher teirs care a little bit more than those in bronze. The problems are still there but they are more likely to happen in bronze.
-The actions of 4 random people determine the rating of which determines if I am "good" or "bad" at the game instead of how I actually perform.
I understand that it is not completely due to other people, that you do have to practice last hitting, positioning, countering, building adjustments to game, mechanics, ability combos with your support if your a ADC main (like me)
I get that I realize I am not perfect at the game, but I do the best I possibly can at the game and I research, experiment, and practice.
Its getting me nowhere because this system is largely based off, grinding, lucky, and then skill.
You get lucky to have no trolls, you grind for high MMR, and you use basic league strategy.
ok, now I can understand your point. for a few games, it is based off luck a little bit. with many games, it's purely skill and game knowledge though. if I see you go 50/0/0 and lose a game, I would blame you for not carrying when that fed and focusing too much on kills over objectives. if I see you miss any easy cs, I would say you need to work on that. if I see you die to a gank, I would say you aren't being careful enough of that situation. when I watch people play, it's small things that make big differences and I can assure you, if I thought you should be higher ranked, you actually would be able to climb.
if I were to play vayne lets say at your rank, I would be able to keep up a 90% win rate fairly easily, though that also would end up me climbing and then facing harder players. for me it's not hard because I know how to play at a higher level. for you it seems like it's luck because you don't quite understand the impact everything you do in game does. placing one ward can change some games around, it's often the small things.
if you want, you can play a game (I'm willing to watch 10 even if you really want me to) as adc vayne or another adc or even another role and I can let you know if I change my mind or not.
SP Dodgecity1 votesI would honestly love that, Because I understand exactly what your talking about.
1st game I lost, player died 3 times early game and quit after 2nd game I lost, my support thresh tower dived early game 2 times and then left me to go support mid. They weren't good, I was just stuck defending tower. 3rd loss was an honest one 4th loss AAtrox trolled me out of top by going there, died, disconnected, reconnected and died 3 more times. Continued to go head to head with the hecraim he already fed. At the same time I had to go against a counter, and got camped out the rest of the game because I was Yasuo, which is to be expected, but our jungle had to go top. I stayed under tower but still got 4 man dived multiple times. 5th loss anothe aatrox constantly died the entire game. I was jg warwick and helped mid and bot both get kills, and helped top maintain tower but aatrox continued this trend. I could only get assists of which I got 11 or 14 I can't remember.
I would actually love to watch you play and have you watch me a few times. I don't mind criticism and getting better. But thats what i've had to go through recently.
hh the thinker1 votesI would honestly love that, Because I understand exactly what your talking about.
1st game I lost, player died 3 times early game and quit after 2nd game I lost, my support thresh tower dived early game 2 times and then left me to go support mid. They weren't good, I was just stuck defending tower. 3rd loss was an honest one 4th loss AAtrox trolled me out of top by going there, died, disconnected, reconnected and died 3 more times. Continued to go head to head with the hecraim he already fed. At the same time I had to go against a counter, and got camped out the rest of the game because I was Yasuo, which is to be expected, but our jungle had to go top. I stayed under tower but still got 4 man dived multiple times. 5th loss anothe aatrox constantly died the entire game. I was jg warwick and helped mid and bot both get kills, and helped top maintain tower but aatrox continued this trend. I could only get assists of which I got 11 or 14 I can't remember.
I would actually love to watch you play and have you watch me a few times. I don't mind criticism and getting better. But thats what i've had to go through recently.
I myself can't play since I'm having internet trouble which gets me to 500 ping, and I expect this to last for a few days until my wired internet is back up and running. as for watching you, I'm ok with it. I also say I would play vayne because of the scaling and outplay, but you can use other champs to carry, I myself would find it harder than vayne though. with vayne, I know I can carry 4v5 even, not sure about 3v5 but maybe. I don't expect this from you of course, but I expect a bit better play than the players you are playing with currently.
you can add me if you want.
the case where support just leaves, I would also be ok with that, and even more so as vayne just to farm up.
SP Dodgecity1 votesAlright, I appreciate you willing to hear me out and not assume I'm bad. If there is something I'm not seeing then I'll start to fix it immediately.
Thanks, i'll add you. I main Quinn, jinx, ashe and caitlyn. I never really use vayne, but I do own her. I usually do a bots match and a normal with a champ I haven't used in a long time. You don't have to watch those if you don't want to.
But Ill do those in my free time.
hh the thinker1 votesAlright, I appreciate you willing to hear me out and not assume I'm bad. If there is something I'm not seeing then I'll start to fix it immediately.
Thanks, i'll add you. I main Quinn, jinx, ashe and caitlyn. I never really use vayne, but I do own her. I usually do a bots match and a normal with a champ I haven't used in a long time. You don't have to watch those if you don't want to.
But Ill do those in my free time.
it's 100% up to you which champs you want to play, I know vayne would work for me best, but if you want to play jinx, ashe, Caitlyn, or even Quinn, I'm fine with it.
rtbf307804111 votes[deleted]
hh the thinker1 votesNo, I played hundreds games in bronze, I got better than people I know who climbed to gold "In their words" I would consistently face insurmountable issues in every promotional one or two trolls, one or two afks, 4 people who don't have a basic understanding of the game. I'm done arguing with people about this, it's infuriating. It's like anything in life really. Have no ability to see a larger picture. They argue vehemently using popular opinion and anecdote.
Even at the most simple model I've seen described here(and there are far too many variances in the models of mmr to believe any of those people actually know that is how it works.)
Shit is rotten as fuck. People talk big, don't understand what they're saying or repeat shit like parrots. Jump on the bandwagon of the person who's words they like. Heaven forbid if someone's perfectly sound hypothesis should counter their belief that they earned their position. I give no fucks what your opinions are anymore. I have spent a lot of time in bronze, and I am not as bad as at least half of the population there. My teams in general, consistently do worse in general than the opposing team and that is not just my play style.
I wasn't really speaking to you when I said this, but truly if you do play better than your rank, you will climb. you can play support, jungle, mid, adc, or top. you can play as a tank or with something with damage. you can even play something like soraka mid. as long as you play better, you will climb slowly. the better you play compared to your current position, the faster you will climb. if you aren't climbing at all though, you are where you belong.
I'm willing to watch people, give them a chance and everything, and try to help them improve. if someone tells me they should be higher because someone else told them they should be, (I've heard this actually a lot, doesn't make it true) I would say why are you having trouble winning games at an easier rank than the one you belong in. it only gets harder the higher you go so if you are losing at a lower rank often enough to stay there, it shows you need improvement in order to climb.
I've seen a lot of trolls and such even in gold. people saying they will afk just to make it even since they were feeding last game. trolls happen, but they aren't the main reason anyone is where they are.
if someone wants me to watch them play a few games and even try to help, I'm fine with it when I have the time. if someone expects me to believe however that it's not possible to climb because the system is messed up or because of trolls, then you will be wrong.
SP Dodgecity1 votesI sent an invite
Enosetc3 votesIm sorry I just tried this earlier and stated everything I possibly could.. and no one cared, they just said "you suck, get better"
No one takes your word on it. They assume your bad and that your points are invalid automatically no matter if they're true or false
after reading this comment thread i see that you make a lot of excuses
yes, sometimes trolls, leavers and people worse than you will ruin your games. this is an unfortunate, but small part of playing ranked.
you blame your inability to climb on a plethora of things that aren't yourself, but when it comes down to it, you are the greatest common factor in every game you participate in. focus within. blaming your problems on things that you have no control over doesn't make those problems stop happening. however, focusing on your own mistakes and improving your own ability will lead to you climbing the ladder. there's no other way to do it.
hh the thinker1 votesyou are a bit bias since you believe it's harder than it actually is, since that's about your level of play. that's the thing, if you play better, you would climb and wouldn't see it as a problem.
SP Dodgecity1 votesI love that cop-out
"Your just not good, get better and you'll get out"
That will never be a genuine point until you play 10 games with me to evaulate how I personally play.
Secondly, saying that it needs no improvement is naive, every game is constantly trying to improve. They have problems and then they try to solve them over time.
But these problems are being ignored
Think about it this way, if you could improve it, then how would you do it?
Your only option is to make it better you can't cop-out and say it has none because thats impossible.
SP Dodgecity1 votesImprovement is always there. Why is Yes it could improve not being selected? Haha
hh the thinker1 votesImprovement is always there. Why is Yes it could improve not being selected? Haha
it's not a problem, but it can be improved is what I did pick because I would like to focus more on that. people aren't picking that it can't be improved, they are picking it isn't a problem.
SP Dodgecity1 votesYour saying its a perfect system when its not. Meaning you think that it has no room for improvement. EVERY game EVER made has problems, bugs, and issues. The point is that there is a problem and that the problem can be discussed and solved.
No one would disagree if I was Diamond 1.
But instead you assume Im a straight terrible player and deserve to be where I'm at which is completely bias and hypocritical.
UltraSceptile2 votesYour saying its a perfect system when its not. Meaning you think that it has no room for improvement. EVERY game EVER made has problems, bugs, and issues. The point is that there is a problem and that the problem can be discussed and solved.
No one would disagree if I was Diamond 1.
But instead you assume Im a straight terrible player and deserve to be where I'm at which is completely bias and hypocritical.
If you were diamond 1 still no one would say you're right. Why? Because SO MANY people have made it out of bronze with ease just through getting 20+ kills every single match ITS THAT EASY. Low silver is stll bronze, but above that every player can consistently win games if given a bronze account. I can attest to this as i myself crawled out in 50 games from bronze 5.
rtbf307804111 votes[deleted]
SP Dodgecity1 votesThank you!! Praise your ability to see truth!
Please have more people like you come along please....
Everytime I try to bring this up, they tell me "you suck, get better" Instead of actually trying to discuss the problems at hand.