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Welp...it happened again.

Zerenza··2 votes·415 views

Lucian MissFortune Draven

I don't REALLY think i have to explain what happened, but it involves these three. Mostly.

item 3147

Again, i'm not even gonna say it.

You can downvote all you want to, i won't judge but keep in mind these next few things before you do.

Look, i understand being bursted isn't fun, buuuuut would you rather have time to react to it while talon runs in a straight line towards you? Or would you rather it happen from range where you simply can't reach them.

Riot, don't buff ANY items, ever, until Marksmen are fixed. They have a VERY long track record of abusing items they aren't supposed to.

item 3071 item 3812 item 3156 item 3053 item 3814 item 3142 item 3147 item 3047 item 1054

This is just to name a few. When marksmen get their greedy little hands on any item, they often get it nerfed then go right back to their already powerful crit builds, but because they can't burst someone, drain tank someone or kill entire teams, they spend about 3 months complaining. Then some items get buffs, those buffs aren't for them but they don't give a shite so we end up in this power struggle. A circle where, in the end, everyone else get's nerfed, and ADC's are still just as strong as they always have been. It's not like your just gonna "Not have an ADC", like EVERY SINGLE TEAM about 99% of them NEED to have a Marksmen. Just because marksmen, are i don't know; doing what their supposed to, sustained DPS, not bursting people, not drain tanking people, dying in 2 seconds when their caught out. Does not mean the class is weak, because it'll never be to weak to never be relevant, individual Marksmen will be, but that's kind of what every class deals with.

15 Comments

Dr Poro3 votes

They can tune items seperately for ranged champions. There are nerfs on the PBE already.

Zerenza1 votes

It's about time, took em 2 year's to finally start doing it again.

Ahristocats1 votes

i love how those threads act like duskblade is balanced on melee champions

thanksfully, riot isn't dumb, and on PBE duskblade has a reduced damage on ranged champions, but is also nerfed for melee champions

Zerenza1 votes

Look, melee champions have a much more difficult time doing what they need to do. An assassin needs to assassinate, in order to do that you have to plan our your route in, and out, 5 second ahead and 5 seconds after(usually). It makes sense for them to be rewarded with their good planning by being able to one shot someone they catch out.

The nerfs are warranted for both, but they literally should have thought of this in the first place instead of not understand what ADC's have a very strong tendency to do.

Ahristocats2 votes

{quoted}

Look, melee champions have a much more difficult time doing what they need to do. An assassin needs to assassinate,

i don't care about what they need to do, having kha procing 360 damage 3 or 4 times with his passive and ult is not balanced at all

having hecarim almost oneshoting me with duskblade triforce and other items is not balanced at all

duskblade is supposed to only be bought on assassins, atm it's bought on every single ad champ it's NOT BALANCED on melees either

Zerenza1 votes

Well, let me tell you. Kha'zix, first, is an assasin. Second, what were you doing alone and being squishy with a kha'zix on the enemy team? You could stand next to your own minions and be fine, his passive won't go off.

Now then, i agree with you on hecarim, a tank shouldn't build Duskblade, that's a completely fair argument.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

Well, let me tell you. Kha'zix, first, is an assasin.

yeah, he's an assassin so it's balanced , 52% win rate 12% pick rate, it's totally balanced just because he's an assassin

Penns2 votes

51-2% win rate kha abusing op item op hehe

Ahristocats1 votes

it's k, he's an assassin so it's totally intended and balanced xd

Kirius Dark1 votes

LMAO duskblade hec

Avienal1 votes

{quoted}

Look, melee champions have a much more difficult time doing what they need to do. An assassin needs to assassinate, in order to do that you have to plan our your route in, and out, 5 second ahead and 5 seconds after(usually). It makes sense for them to be rewarded with their good planning by being able to one shot someone they catch out.

The nerfs are warranted for both, but they literally should have thought of this in the first place instead of not understand what ADC's have a very strong tendency to do.

The main issue is to hit the champions that exploit it and create 'changes to the item if a range champion uses it'. They have done it in the form of melee only effects so we don't have shenigans as much in the form of item 3074 spamming twitches anymore. Would not hurt them to push it onto item 3071 since it's become too much of a staple pick up to particular ADCs to get a rather EZ dmg, shred, ability spam and tankie build, which really a ADC should not be allowed to build 'beefie' without a proper lost in overall damage.

They at least got item 3053 properly fixed by making the shield based on bonus health, but it does not help with other particular items that are for assassins and fighters, yet some ADCs get off with it too many times with yet again, items that have nothing to do with attack speed, crit or mobility and they still exploit it better then the marksmen norm items. Doesnt help we got item 3026 being a norm on alot of marksmen and assassins to just instantly jump back into a fight and use lifesteal to EZ recover against any cocky opponents doesnt help either, especially since it now grants 'AD' to push it for an item for high focused squishies and might as well of back fired a great deal as a free zilean R.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Seriously they need to just put a 2 axe catching cap on draven(meaning after he catches a axe a 2nd time in a row, it does not refresh the effect and he has to use Q again, maybe tack a increasing mana cost for repeated Q use within 8 or so second periods) and change it to where the AD bonus is low(especially after just pressing Q to start it up) and gets back up to its current 'amount' for each axe he 'catches' consectively after auto attacking a enemy champion, but the stack increase only applies if he does repeated autos within say 1~2 second per 'auto' with it only 'refreshing' the damage bonus duration on auto'ing a minion and catching a axe.

Draven is a good example of this issue is because he gets rather high EZ damage, no actual need for attack speed and enough innate 'attack speed' and burst mobility to not give a care on building a item 3086 and rather rush for a item like item 3072 to EZ snowball damage and sustain. He has no proper 'risk' to balance him out since his little passive on losing adoration stacks means way too little atm compared to the insane amount of gold he picks up on the process.

Very least TwistedFate is gated off alot better in the form of a randomized 1~6 instead of being able to get 50 gold by default whenever he blows up an opponent and an extra 2*adoration stacks. It makes me feel like the passive needs to be adjusted so he relies HEAVILY on the adoration stacks too where say its maybe 3 to 4 * his adoration stacks(no more flat 50 gain by default) so he can't get that insane spike from 50 bonus gold on a early champion kill, forcing him to either play risky or safe to get a big pay off whether it risks him getting massacred easily or he barely can build up stacks.

Its useful that his 'bonus stacks' require him to do 6 consective non-champion kills without dropping a axe, but considering how EZ his Q makes the damage goes, that downside is kind of moot again, especially when he only has to 'move' to redirect axes to specific spots to completely allow him a rather EZ safety zone in stack build up.

Long story short, marksmen like them need proper damn re evaluations done to their kit where they either have more risk to properly match the reward they constantly get too easily or they get the reward they have tuned down to match the level of risk they get to pull off too easily.

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

the only item on that list that certain ADCs should not consider is Sterakks. You speak from a standpoint of someone who doesn't actually play ADC, and while I don't play ADC in ranked I'm always in the botlane, and play some ADC in normals on occasion. There was a good while where ADC champions just could not do their job, their job is to cut down the enemies as they approach, and they could not do it because the ADC item list was cut to oblivion. I know this for a fact, because I abused the fact that they couldn't do it. I played more aggressive than I should have and got away with it. You have to look at this from all sides. ADC is a hard role to balance simply because of just what they are expected and supposed to do. One step too far on either side of the balance makes the game less fun for everyone. Have patience, lethality items made it quite a bit more difficult to find proper balance this season. I can almost guarantee that Riot has a team monitoring the situation and will figure something out.

Zerenza1 votes

Well, the thing is, those items i listed(Exception probably Death's Dance) weren't actually made for ADC's. For Black Clever, that's a fighter/juggernaut item, for all those lethality items, that's a fighter/assassin item, for tabi's it's boots but i really don't want ADC's first back buying Tabi's just so their enemy ADC does a little less damage, same with Doran's Shield.

By the way, i like to play ADC's, my favorite's are Xayah and Jhin, i like Corki too but he's not really a bot laner from what i understand. In the jungle, i love to play Kindred, do i play those champs in ranked? Hell no, i can't land a jhin W or R to save my life, literally, but i do understand where ADC's are coming from. Yet, i don't understand them ever being completely useless to the point of never being picked. Assassins can go months without seeing any play, tanks can, fighter's can. But mages and ADC's are always good to get, their never so bad that you just don't pick them, the class overall is strong, the perks it offer's are strong and every team is fine with one or both on their team.

Kairoptra1 votes

The damage was nerfed yesterday in a hotfix, and there are changes on PBE that will be coming to live in 7.15 where the damage is lower for ranged champs and it doesn't slow for them.

Zerenza1 votes

See it's nerfs like that, that i like to see. I make these posts because we can't just keep ignoring the fact that ranged and melee are different and one or the other could abuse an item that's not meant for them, best way to fix that, nerf it for the side it's not meant to be on.

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