I hate how forgiving certain champions are (Mainly hyper carries)

Succubús GF·Jan 2, 2018·1 votes·695 views

Because, with this current meta where late game champions no longer struggle early cough adcs. Can you PLEASE let them be reasonably punished if they get shut down early?

5 Comments

WeedbroJan 2, 20181 votes

yeah some champs die and they don't care, like karthus

AzadetheJan 2, 20181 votes

You think Nasus struggles early? or how about Zed? Fizz? hmm..... I can number so many "hyper carries" who are not adcs.....

Basically what you're complaining about is a point of perception: "I play bot/jung" and find a snowballing player better than I am ..... is the first and most visible threat to my well-being in the game.

In reality..... their Renekton top or Nasus, Zed, Katarina..... are doing far greater than that adc, and you only run into them later.... once you're so far behind they ALL crush you like a grape.

Succubús GFJan 2, 20181 votes

The most COMMON hyper carries are in the adc role. Zed fizz and nasus all don't struggle early. Ehh nasus is arguable. Kass and vayne were supposed to have HORRIBLE earlies to make up for being a nightmare late. I used adcs as an EXAMPLE because riot has pushed this "well adcs are meant to be weak early and scale late"

AzadetheJan 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=His Kïtten,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=97IhBUOq,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-01-02T11:12:08.812+0000)

The most COMMON hyper carries are in the adc role. Zed fizz and nasus all don't struggle early. Ehh nasus is arguable. Kass and vayne were supposed to have HORRIBLE earlies to make up for being a nightmare late. I used adcs as an EXAMPLE because riot has pushed this "well adcs are meant to be weak early and scale late"

I'm sorry but my experience says otherwise. i'm far less scared of a fed adc than I am of a fed Mid/Top/Jung.

Mid/Top/Jung abuse lethality far better than adcs, have much better sustain/escapes, and far stronger engages and usually have stronger cc. While an adc can get "fed" if they are the lane winner, they are still a 1 shot death if combo'd correctly, to the point that their sustain or crit doesn't get them kills late game. Most Adcs have a flat HP cap around 2000 HP, and even tanks today can reach that if the combo is right, and they have a thornmail or Randiun's to reduce the damage adcs do.... especially if they have Ninja Tabis too. On the other hand, your Mid/Top Carries generally are over 2500-4000 HP, can deal far more damage, and have kits that generally can 1v5. For example, Riven, Darius, and Nasus all excel at 1v5ing, and usually have no problems doing so, if they are played correctly (if the Riven can't wall jump.... well she's not playing right). I mean.... most adc's can't even duel a Nasus. He can almost 1 hit them or actually one hit them if he's on Dark Harvest, no matter how fed they are, because his passive coupled with his Q and wither is just stupidly OP vs people who build Berserker Greaves. 95% slow = I'm gonna eat you!

While dueling an adc might feel annoying if it's a winner (especially Jinx or jhin, which ironically are two of the least mobile, but also two of the biggest snowballs because of their passives), they are always counterable, and able to be shut down, because they are one factor of a game that you know a Thornmail, Randiun's, or Frozen heart with Ninja tabis can always make survivable (even if they are a 25/0 Tristana) long enough to shut down.

What you'll notice is if you bother to study adcs, you'll find that they all at some games or another fall behind and completely become irrelevant. if you kill a Vayne 0/6 and keep at her instead of giving her free farm after you've deemed your lane won (omfg I've seen this happen too often; they leave vayne to farm from 10 minutes - 18 minutes trying to win other lanes..... only to wonder why Vayne is 1v3ing at 18 minutes after you shut her down, and she suddenly has 185 cs.....) She'll be nothing the rest of the game. If you do the same to a Twitch; ditto. If you never give Jinx a first kill, she will never start proccing her pentakills, and probably won't get to a Rapid Fire Cannon. If you get Tanky you can always beat a Tristana who is fed, simply by predicting where she's going to W to (Saying this as an Evelynn player; I hate Trist, but she's doable as Eve even if she W's away, because you have 15-22 Seconds to find and kill her, or you have a teammate box her)

There's really only 2 adcs that have very little counterplay, and those two aren't tradition adcs: Quinn and Kindred. Quinn, because Lethality on her causes double tapped effectiveness and her Ult is fastest in game move speed. Kindred because with a few stacks she outranges most abilities, prevents getting close with slows, and her damage structure spikes so high that getting close is certain death, and her hops allow her to maintain this distance (her old counters don't even counter her anymore; I know.... some Kindreds suck. But the ones who play her right almost never lose). Kalista can almost get in here too, but even she has counterplay; get away, and prevent her from getting a kill off her E (Same strategy you use for Twitch). Reset the fight and go back in and kill her while she's on cooldown.

I don't like the Lethality meta either. But you have to concede: a Duskblade Zed or Wu kong controls nearly every game when played right. ADCS can lose hard, even if they are aces at adc. Wu can literally 1 hit with a Duskblade. Zed can almost 1 hit and definitely 2 hit. Adc has to hit about 5 things to kill.

OxyrottenJan 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=His Kïtten,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=97IhBUOq,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-02T10:31:02.432+0000)

Because, with this current meta where late game champions no longer struggle early cough adcs. Can you PLEASE let them be reasonably punished if they get shut down early?

It's not that general of a problem. ADC's not only benefit from all the snowball mechanics recently implemented, but they also benefit from all the new mastery healing since they do sustain damage and make better use of them. On top of that their itemization is on general much cheaper than any other role so they get items completed faster which allows them to benefit even more from the snowball mechanics.

Some sort of shutdown punishment would only make the problem worse (in general state of the game) because it would lead to even further power creep, and adc's would also be able to benefit and or abuse any shutdown mechanics.