Boards›Gameplay

Sion's Rework made him worse than before

Thats Frosty··2 votes·1,596 views

Lets just go down his new kit and look at some of the major changes.

Passive - Prework Sion's passive was godly for trading damage with opponents, now its designed for you to run in, get your opponent as low as possible, and just hope you can whack him down before they can flash away.

Q- Sion had one solid targeted stun, now its replaced with a charged skillshot that only stuns and knocks up after being charged for 50%. It gives you about enough time to walk up to the champion and land maybe get one auto off on them depending where they got hit. Riot says sion was easily kited, taking away his one for sure cc ability makes 0 sense for helping him get kited less.

W- This one im half and half on, moving the old e passive to the shield and giving it % hp is a nice feature, only problem I have with it is that the hp does not scale with level, its a consistant 2hp per small minion, 8 per champ kill/assist or big minion. This means that he effectively gets more hp by jungling than he would in lane. 1 non cannon wave is equal to doing wolves in jungle. I would revert it to the old e passive scaling and keep the %hp.

E- This skill I find totally useless, yes I get it can slow and reduce armor and its fun to knock minions into people, but one of the things that even made Sion a possible top laner was his ad boost. Lanes that Sion could win against like Riven were because he would be able to out trade damage with them, losing the extra AD and having very little to make up for it in its place is a huge disappointment.

R- I like the thought of this skill in the sense he can't be cced while you have it casted, but lets look at some of the drawbacks -Very hard to use in jungle to get to a lane if its being ganked -The minute you touch something that resembles a wall or the side of a wall, you waste your ulti and stun yourself -The aoe on it seems a tad small for the knockup

Sion's original kit was a bit simple, but it made more sense than this. His ulti gave him the ability to sustain against hard counter lanes like jayce and ryze, and he was able to out trade some of the more aggressive champions like Riven. With the current changes, Sion can't lane against pretty much anything top (This does include Garen) and he gets even more kited than before. I think a look back to combine some of the newer things and old things that made Sion what he was is highly recommended. I had a couple idea's in mind

Passive - Revert it to the old Sion passive Q- Same here, back to old ability with a reduced mana cost and maybe a small ad ratio W- Hp scaling like the old e, keep the %hp as well E- Reverted to the old e, higher hp cost per auto attack. If Sion lands continuous attacks against the same target, he gains a stackable movespeed buff R- Combine the old Ultimate with the new passive with less total atk speed and lifesteal. If Sion dies while his ultimate is active, the new passive would kick in, knocking up nearby enemy champions as he comes back to life.

Any thoughts are appreciated and welcome

10 Comments

DiminishedAC1 votes

I don't think you fully understand why they reworked Sion. It wasn't to make him stronger/less kite-able, it was to make him a fully cohesive champion. That bonus AD isn't what MADE Sion, Sion; just as his Q now makes more sense with his overall theme. (A zombie guy could...spit at you and stun you...?)

Sion's new passive is excellent for showing just how unstoppable he is, even in death (character theme + gameplay cohesiveness) .

His old ultimate was really strong, but gave him more of an "agile" feel, whereas now, he can become this unstoppable juggernaut without being able to correct his "driving" quickly.

This whole rework was meant to give Sion a better chance at being himself and not just a ridiculous and funny champion.

junglerboy162 votes

This^ Sion's rework was also not intended to leave him a melee ADC or an APC, He is supposed to fully realize his potential as an undead tank monster. If you realize this simple shift from what he was to what he was supposed to be all along, you will understand the changes better.

Passive fits his theme and also the idea that a tank should soak damage. Sion does so to the point where he dies and berserks the whole enemy team.

Q is now multipurpose: it combos with his E and his R very well, and also gives Sion crazy zone control (something he didn't have much of before, because as a tank it is something you REALLY want).

W I actually agree that the scaling for small minions is a little weird, seeing that jungle Sion will out gain lane Sion, but that is a minor issue at most.

E is a really dynamic and interesting looking ability and as a tank it serves him better than an AD steroid (if you think about it, Sion now has 3 damaging abilities, and no more health costs, seems like a buff really).

R really cements the whole identity they have created for him, and really does a better job with the idea of an undead war machine than the old one (it works for his passive though because of how instead of feeling like a zombie going into a feeding frenzy, it is a juggernaut that is throwing the last of his life into a battle. Also has direct links to his lore, old ult had nothing of the sort).

The Storm Dragon1 votes

This^ Sion's rework was also not intended to leave him a melee ADC or an APC, He is supposed to fully realize his potential as an undead tank monster. If you realize this simple shift from what he was to what he was supposed to be all along, you will understand the changes better.

Passive fits his theme and also the idea that a tank should soak damage. Sion does so to the point where he dies and berserks the whole enemy team.

Q is now multipurpose: it combos with his E and his R very well, and also gives Sion crazy zone control (something he didn't have much of before, because as a tank it is something you REALLY want).

W I actually agree that the scaling for small minions is a little weird, seeing that jungle Sion will out gain lane Sion, but that is a minor issue at most.

E is a really dynamic and interesting looking ability and as a tank it serves him better than an AD steroid (if you think about it, Sion now has 3 damaging abilities, and no more health costs, seems like a buff really).

R really cements the whole identity they have created for him, and really does a better job with the idea of an undead war machine than the old one (it works for his passive though because of how instead of feeling like a zombie going into a feeding frenzy, it is a juggernaut that is throwing the last of his life into a battle. Also has direct links to his lore, old ult had nothing of the sort).

If they wanted him to be a full tank, they shouldn't have removed his DR passive, lowered his health gain on unit kill, and cut 700 HP from his base stats.

wolfax1 votes

They don't want him full tank. They want him to be a bruiser who can dish out and receive some damage. When did they say they wanted him full tank?

redniwediS1 votes

I sort of agree with you on the passive and E. The E does feel underwhelming but it's not exactly useless either. It just isn't strong enough against mobile targets, while against immobile ones it's not needed.

The passive however I'm not really sure on yet. I played a fair amount of Sion on the PBE and the passive always worked really well when people were focused on someone else. In a chaotic team fight it can turn the tide of a fight. Problem is most team fights involve enough disengage to kite you while the fight is actually going on. One slow and a bit of walking is all it takes to make the passive useless.

The rest of his it I'm absolutely in love with.

Thats Frosty1 votes

Ok so i've tried him ad top, ap top and jungle. So far the only thing that seems viable with him is jungle, you just farm for 15 minutes and come out with alot of health. The drawback to this is the lack of damage he has, all he can really do is soak damage and hope he can get a good w off.

Ad top was just horrible to play, ap was decent up until fed jungle came up. W+E made waveclearing very easy and the shield hurt a little more than usual. Both have a 0.5 ap ratio on them for anyone who was wondering. I still say old Sion was alot better

wolfax1 votes

His old kit made 0 sense actually. Why was a renowned Noxian warrior who was famed for killing large amounts of enemies and being in the front of the battle all of a sudden killing people by staring real hard at them and building a ton of mage items? It made no sense. AD Sion had 2 abilities that were useful, and both those were passives. At least the ult required you to hit a button to get it, so that's something I guess. He had one of the oldest kits in the game back from an antiquated design that had everyone using AP, but they then realized that it didn't make all that much sense so moved to the model we have today.

Old Sion passive was random. Riot has slowly but surely been removing all random factors from the game such as dodge and now Sion's old passive. We need to move away from random abilities. Plus you never noticed it. You never said "whew, thank you Sion passive for saving me" it was always "huh, guess they didn't have enough damage to kill me". You never even knew if it was used. It was entirely possible to go for a trade and have it not activate once.

Q: No. Old ability made 0 sense for an undead juggernaut. Why is he using his eyes to stare real hard? It's boring, and point and click CCs are frowned upon. They also need to obliterate all or almost every AP ratio from his kit. Sion shouldn't be building AP mage.

The new Q is not meant to hit all the time at 100% windup. That's why they let it stun at 50%. You can hit them at 50% most of the time barring them flashing or dashing out with an ability. The 100% part is meant to punish enemies that don't react to what you're doing or reward you for chaining it with an ally's CC for a mini combo. Again, it's not meant to always hit at 100%.

R: I don't like going back to massive steroid. It doesn't feel like an ultimate. Ultimates are meant to be big cornerstone abilities of champions. They're supposed to be kinda flashy and matter a lot. A big steroid is not exciting or defining as a champion.

Thats Frosty1 votes

Before the changes, I actually mained ad sion top, Atmas and spirit visage were all you needed for defensive and you could go pd and hydra for offensive stuff. I didnt go the ap 2 trick pony style of things

wolfax1 votes

AD Sion was 2 passive buffs and one point and click stun. That hardly seems more interesting than a 2 trick pony.

Thats Frosty1 votes

AD Sion was 2 passive buffs and one point and click stun. That hardly seems more interesting than a 2 trick pony.

Was more useful than q+w then run away till your combo came back up. Old Sion could at least slug some good damage out in teamfights. Hes so soft now -_-

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Thats Frosty

"Mixed Damage" can we make this more accurate?
Gameplay61 comments
41
votes
Remove the pick either or for masteries
Gameplay3 comments
7
votes
Community recruiting section?
Boards Feedback10 comments
7
votes
Canadians getting left out of the Esports scene?
Esports30 comments
6
votes
Cinderhulk is not working with vlads passive
Report a Bug7 comments
5
votes
Cho needs a rework or nerf
Gameplay22 comments
4
votes