why you nerfing GP even more?

DropFill·Sep 10, 2015·8 votes·2,941 views

May I ask why ?

25 Comments

plantersSep 10, 20159 votes

Let's put this into perspective. Right now GP's barrel is a very high rewarding skill. At this very moment, in the ideal situation of 6 items and a choke point, he can wreck an entire team for around 30%+ Hp for tanky champions and over 70% against squishy champions. I know this because I have used GP's barrels to chunk opponents for around that much in games. On top of that, his gold generation when you max Q allows him to get basically half a minion with each kill. Even when he doesnt max it, he essentially gets 400 gold in 100 minions. (Yes I know this is in accurate but bear with me my point is coming soon.)

Now let's exam a typical GP game. At the start, for every minion he kills, he gets more gold than you. Even if you bully him under tower, unless you're very far ahead of him or getting a bunch of kills, you are essentially losing lane as if neither one of you takes tower until jg intervention occurs, then he will be at a greater item advantage. (His global ult allowing for long range ganking to occur doesnt hurt either.) This item advantage translates to his late game where he should finish off his full item set before anyone else. To make him even more oppressive, one good barrel can literally win a team fight and, would you look at that, he has tons of access to it because it's not an ultimate.

Does this make GP a poorly designed champion? No. He is well designed. His barrels can be destroyed easily in lanes by ranged champions. This makes late game sieging/antisieging very difficult. However, exploiting this weakness can get much harder when you start dealing with jg terrain and a smart GP. I cant remember the game, it was either china or korea where a team lost a dragon and i think gave enemy team five dragons but still won the teamfight because 1 barrel was placed in a bush where a ward was removed and 4/5 of the enemy team walked too close and the GP did a quick EQ combo and chunked everyone to blinking red HP even as the dragon was stolen. Hence why Riot feels he is overtuned and needs some turning down in number values.

RiotMeddlerSep 10, 20158 votes

Well put. This is really close to our thoughts, we feel GP's doing the right sort of stuff, but barrels when used well are simply offering too much damage.

KONO RUBICK DASep 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well put. This is really close to our thoughts, we feel GP's doing the right sort of stuff, but barrels when used well are simply offering too much damage.

instead of cutting his damage how about making it harder to hit? like increase the cooldown to 0.5 sec or reduce the aoe ???

you guys love to cut down a strength instead of accentuate a counterplay

qetzelSep 10, 20151 votes

This still means that when used well it offers too much damage.

KougaSep 10, 20153 votes

To play devil's advocate, haven't they said before that they are ok with relatively high power if it has to be "used well" and isn't easily accessible?

RetillinSep 10, 20152 votes

But the problem is the "used well" is too reliable. I think that ends up being the main issue. Right now GP beats melees in lane, has global reach, MASSIVE aoe that ignores armour (the thing you should build vs an ad champ), ect.. ect... He just doesn't have a weakness. It's why he's first picked/banned in China/Korea. He's so over tuned on many different levels at the moment. Personally I don't know why he ignores armour. That just seems like a bad idea from the get go.

qetzelSep 10, 20151 votes

They have, but there are limits. Expressed recently was the idea of a champion who killed you instantly if they clicked on the direct centre of your hitbox, but died instantly if they missed.

The power isn't easily accessible, but is bullshit.

I believe GPs barrels at the moment fall under complete bullshit damage wise. My opinion is that making them difficult enough to land to justify that damage would make him feel terrible to play as.

KougaSep 10, 20151 votes

Fair enough - just bringing it up because I thought I remember a Red mentioning something along those lines. I think there is a balance there to be struck. Champions reliant heavily on skill shots (Ezreal, Lux) tend to have higher damage outputs them those who have more targeted abilities, but the tradeoff is in the reliability. But they might have been reaching a bit far with the amount of damage.

Question though - What if he had the same amount of damage as release, but it could only be triggered by auto attacks?

qetzelSep 10, 20151 votes

Firstly, it would make his Qs gold generation and hence ultimate weaker.

Secondly, I am not good at this sort of thing, so don't know. Guessing, in most cases, the risk would significantly increase, and GP could no longer pop a barrel on top of someone and hit them from such a long range. However, he doesn't always need the range, and in those cases I still feel the payout is a bit high.

KougaSep 10, 20151 votes

Fair enough. I'm just wondering if it feels particularly punishing against melees (such as Riven, Garen etc) because they don't have any way to pick them off without getting into range, whereas GP can shoot them from afar. The "counter play" to the barrels was ostensibly supposed to be "kill the barrel before it explodes" but GP being able to shoot it before you can get there kind of negates that.

If he had to AA it too, then it'd be more of a tense "race to hit the barrel" kind of thing, but GP could still use Linked barrels to make plays or detonate other barrels he isn't next to.

Again just poking for the sake of argument, I don't have enough experience to have much of an informed opinion.

JustMyBassCannonSep 11, 20151 votes

On the other side of Devil's Advocate, they don't want to make "more difficult" = "more powerful"

ErockandrollSep 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

instead of cutting his damage how about making it harder to hit? like increase the cooldown to 0.5 sec or reduce the aoe ???

you guys love to cut down a strength instead of accentuate a counterplay

Increasing the CD inbetween Barrel Casts would just drop the Skill cap, As it would make his Barrel combinations more limiting. Which is kinda the Opposite of what they want to do. And that still wouldn't have any bearing on the maximum damage potential.
And AoE nerf would be even worse. As Barrel damage was done to augment your own damage output. Yet his AoE is Crucial for Wave Clear, and splitpushing.

And believe me, his counterplay is their.

That's not the Real problem we have with these nerfs. Riot decided to Nerf his Barrels on the Grounds that his, Best Case Scenario was too good. Which makes it sound like they have not factored in his Worse, or Average case Scenario. (Whether they did or not, I don't know) A) Is loosing his upper bound on his Damage output going to significantly impact his Play rate, his play style, and his win rate? And B) if Yes, how might he be compensated?

These are questions that Riot may not be able to answer until the collect player data. If GP is not Viable after Riot decided he can't have that level of Burst, Where could he shift that Power? His DPS? (Some what Dangerous being Melee) His Tankyness? (would be my choice) His Global Pressure? (Kinda unlikely)

EcodeathSep 10, 20151 votes

ty for nerfing the freelo +1

TsohgderSep 11, 20151 votes

Have you thought about reducing the time between barrels? those 0,25s feel VERY weird and clunky to players who are experienced in making fast combos with him. He doesn't feel smooth recently.

I'm sure i'm not the only one who noticed this, there are better ways of slowing him down without worsening the player's experience and satisfaction when learning the champion (the player has to make it slower instead of the skill being slower itself).

Sakura MirageSep 10, 20154 votes

Because aoe crits are toxic as fuck why do you think they nerfed jinx?

DropFillSep 10, 201512 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna Smurf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8zzM48pu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-10T17:55:08.024+0000)

Because aoe crits are toxic as fuck why do you think they nerfed jinx?

Jinx is ranged, and her AoE crits are not situational meanwhile gp