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Ryze seems to be unbalanced every time he is viable riot

doublelift fg··4 votes·739 views

Maokai patch: ryze became a tanky dps mage, with constant Damage. And then, the Mana ratio on his Q went from 10% to 8% to 7.5% to 6.5%. Because he could rush banshee and frozen heart oneshot anyone while beeing tanky as hell in addition to his spell vamp. Then he went top and you reduced his range, now he just can't catch anyone and needs at least 3 items to be effective since Q base damage nerf. When he is viable, he is too oppressive, and when not, he is just bad. Any reasons to pick Ryze over cassio?

i Ask you to stop this design, just give up about a tanky dps mage and make him a burst mage. 1-Remove his cdr passive on his Q and change it to an increase of AP, increase the cooldown to his Q to 10 seconds 2-Change his passive to a converstion of AP into Mana 3-Increase his AP scaling 4-and give us a more enjoyable ulti right now we just use it to waveclear or hope that the enemy team will be grouped to do splash dmg, because the spell vamp is so DAMN USELESS.

17 Comments

SaltyToplaneGoat5 votes

Well, he IS up for a gameplay update coming in the next time...

He is just totally outdated. Point&Click spells all over, a stat- mod as "unique" element... Low counterplay damage with range and tankyness is a weird mix to balance - especially when your champ is technically ressourceless.

doublelift fg1 votes

if he needs a skill shot you have to change his E not his Q, because it is his main spell like pantheon and gangplank range and tankyness is aweird mix, that's why you have to turn him into a burst mage

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Ryze is in a rather problematic spot when going from his theme which is "rouge mage" or "tribal/strange magic"... I think his tankyness was never intended, but just a result of most Mana-item's being defensive. I really hope they remove his mana scaling (or change it on a fundamental level), because it just forces him into certain build paths. Also getting damage for building resource... I'm not sure how one is supposed to balance that.

I can see his Q working as always, but his cc spell needs to be a skillshot - the problem is just that this is too reliable ranged poke. Maybe make him more of a combo mage so a single Q doesn't hurt so much but gets strong when used in combination with other spells?

Also, give him a REAL ultimate. Like, one that actually DOES SOMETHING.

doublelift fg1 votes

agree for the ultimate really, this one is a joke i just forgot that it gaves 80 bonus ms so you can use it to escape/gap close

You want to remove the mana scaling? well he would no longer be unique when you hear ryze you always think about his mana scaling but i agree that it is a problem that we need to fix.

i think that if you transform his dps into burst by removing his 2 passive and increasing the cooldown of his Q, with more AP ratio, mana ryze would deal less damage because he won't have it every 1.2 seconds

SaltyToplaneGoat2 votes

If all that makes a champion unique is a worthless stat-modificator (Mana->damage in this case) you have failed as a designer. It can remain an aspect of his theme, but not his entire identity if I ask the question to "what makes Ryze unique?".

I think he even needs a full Sion-scale rework with most of his skills completly changed - there isn't much "unique" stuff to keep in his current kit if I'm really honest. MR shred? Point&click CC? Weird AoE dmg no one really utilizes anyways? Nah comeon there should be a better way to design a mage than this generic mess he is right now.

Another approach would be to let him have his mana passive (or maybe a passive that converts AP into Mana), but have his skills eat a LOT of mana. That would be one way to solve the problem.

doublelift fg1 votes

so except his ulti what do you propose for his skills?

SaltyToplaneGoat2 votes

The problem with Ryze is that until now he has a very gerneric and not really interesting mage-play pattern. Walk close-> throw all point and click stuff -> repeat until target dead.

Another point would be the question on how to handle the mana issue here. I think in it's current form the mana-scalings have to go.

About his new skills... well, that's kinda hard to say since this is actually designing an entire new champ with a very few guidelines you can follow thematically (just like Sion back then). For that we need to get down to the question of what we actually want Ryze to be? A close combat mage? A mid-range burster? Some kind of AP Bruiser? Or maybe more of a pure mage more focussed on dps than on burst?

What do we actually WANT him to do in the teamfights? Is there a special niche he could fill?

My idea would be to keep him somehow connected with "Mana", but not in the way it currently is. A passive granting him bonus mana the more AP he builds seems to be a good start here.

The problem is: this would, especially in combination with item 3003, grant him A LOT of ressource. But how do we get someone with so many ressources to actually have to manage it? The solution os quite simple: his spells get %-Max and %-Current mana costs. (the second option for weaker spells of course).

For his ultimate I propose a channel that burns almost all his mana, but deals more damage the more mana got burned. I mean, it's called "Desperate Power" if I remember correctly. Blasting all you have in one spell seems quite desperate to me.

About the actual basic skills... hmmm I think there should be another interesting mechanic to add here. Mana-Drain (sounds like an interesting concept if he's supposed to be all about Mana), bouncing projectiles (but not automatically bouncing like his W is currently, but you can aim it at walls or minions and try to hit the enemy with that), his runecage could be a dodgeable AoE similiar to Brand's W, etc etc.

I think if Riot's designers get to work they will come up with much more interesting stuff than I wrote her right now ^^

doublelift fg1 votes

good interaction with an item won't prevent you from making a spell

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

No, but it IS the strongest Mana item ingame so it has to be considered when designing him around the concept of "Tons of Mana". Just like we have to keep item 3089 in mind when making other AP champs and when their ratios have to be decided on. While champs shouldn't be completly dependant on a certain build path, there's mostly always that one item you always get. For mages it's item 3089 , for tanks it's item 3068 , bruisers take item 3143 , etc etc.

thinking man3 votes

Ryze is a big game health problem because his theme as a mana-scaling mage is not interesting at all and only serves as a way to give him power without giving him any sort of meaningful gameplay.

If he interacted with mana in a way that required thinking beyond just doing more damage since you bought Heart/Rod/Tear then he'd be easier to balance.

Tengrichan2 votes

Well i am still hoping they will give us back the old assassin ryze in some form and forget about this tanky dps mage bullshit.

doublelift fg1 votes

When was ryze an assassin?

Tengrichan1 votes

In S1 or S2.Can't remember exactly. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ryze/Background
You can see it in the patch history.

Old Man Teeto1 votes

Le Sigh.

Ryze has a huge set of innate weaknesses.

However, playing around a champions natural weaknesses are SO three seasons a go.

Now you just throw skillshots, instant burst, AoE CC, 1 combo kaboom. The game has evolved so much strategically.

Just look at team fights now! On average you get to participate in a team fight for 2~3 seconds before it's decided! For all that setup time, farming, joshing for position you did, what a wonderful culminating few moments of action.

I give a hearty round of applause for the games design scheme. claps

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Yes because Ryze's simple presence wasn't enough to fuck over toplane every time he was viable simple because of his mix of barely needed resource management, safe poke, sustain, cc and RANGE.

Tell me, what weaknesses does he have? Shut him down early? Oh gosh I didn't realize that this applies to almost EVERY champ. Wait for ganks? Hmm ok, so while waiting for a jungler to come by I hug my tower and can't even dare to take a single cs? Especially now that most junglers can't even gank early with the jungle monsters beating them to pulp?

You words reek of ignorance. There is nothing a normal toplaner can do against Ryze apart from getting a barrage of damage into their face whever they even dare to come close. Oh someone wants to engage on me? Here, have a full combo in your face while I walk of. Oh wait you used clever trading to wear me down? TOO BAD I have free sustain from my ultimate. And me running out of mana? Lol.

And in midlane... well, there's a reason he's at top, just like all champs who couldn't compete in mid. There, he suddenly doesn't have enough range.

And before that comes: counterpicking isn't skill. With Ryze it just goes to ways: either he dominates or he gets totally shat on. That's not how a champ should be designed. Like this always one of the two players in this matchup is going to be frustarted while there is no room to actually express any kind of skill.

Also I really prefer riots current way of design. In the early days you always knew when a game was over - because there was no room for the winning team to actually fuck up. Now there is room for mistakes. CC that can be placed wrong, combos set up inefficiently, failed teamwork wasting damage potential. And also, what was the last bursty char riot released? Kalista? nah, that's an adc. Azir or Rek? Both sustained DPS. Gnar? Well if you stay close the moment he rages up AND you stay close to a wall, that's pretty much your own fault.

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