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Remind me again why Garen is manaless champion (Garen Q to other champions)

ValiantKiller··1 votes·2,079 views

http://i63.tinypic.com/t66tk2.png So his Q allow him to break slow and gain movement speed + silence the target and then deal 30-170 AD (40% AD ratio scale) with 8 second CDR. (Not to mention villain post 6 will get 1% extra true damage of their max hp on q hit)

And that cost nothing at all. While Yorick on other hand http://i68.tinypic.com/2ic2ts8.png His Q does dig a grave on death of enemy unit, provide healing of 12-82 double to 24-164 below 50% hp having CDR of 7-4 dealing 30-130(40% AD ratio scale) but it cost 25mana.

MonkeyKing Q on other hand http://i66.tinypic.com/2r1zu3a.png Gain 125 extra range and armor reduction on target with 10-30%, deal 10 -130 (0-40% AD ratio) with CDR of 9-5 and mana cost of 40.

So again why Q of Garen allowed to be manaless ? Like i know that manaless champions should be the champions that not able to finish you in one rotation but right now he able to do that while being manaless ? how that possible.

25 Comments

Critmaster Garen5 votes

and im pretty sure, garen doesnt have mana at this point to lock him out of certain items, and to make certain mana items more cost inefficient for him.

if you were to add mana to his kit, it would come with a compensation of shorter early game cooldowns, since right now he is balanced around being resourceless.

on top of it, it would give me access to items that could make your life a living hell.

so by all means. add mana to his kit. gonna love running you down with item 3025 item 3800 and shredding you with a item 2033 at lvl 2.

you will wish you had never asked for it.

Infernape2 votes

Probably because he's designed to be as straightforward as possible and easy to pick up and master. He is designed to be a beginner champion, hence why he's manaless. You rely on your cooldowns over having to manage your mana bar.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

Probably because he's designed to be as straightforward as possible and easy to pick up and master. He is designed to be a beginner champion, hence why he's manaless. You rely on your cooldowns over having to manage your mana bar.

But right now his full rotation late game or even in lane against few champions just do alot of damage for manaless champions, special it allow him to stay in lane for a good while.

Incarceration2 votes

While I do agree that Garen is a problem right now, asking for his Q to cost resources is not the right solution and the best way to actually put him down is to buff other juggernauts, especially when a tank meta is inevitable now.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

While I do agree that Garen is a problem right now, asking for his Q to cost resources is not the right solution and the best way to actually put him down is to buff other juggernauts, especially when a tank meta is inevitable now.

I not asking for it to cost resource or anything, just wonder why he manaless while his q doing alot of damage plus the effects. I know that manaless champions doesn't have like one rotation of kill but it seem like garen can do that somehow plus able to sustain while he can poke with it in trades easily special if he got his w to take some damage.

Incarceration1 votes

lmao.

When was it established that manaless champions don't have one rotation of kill?

Literally almost any champion can kill another champion in one rotation given the right situations (such as trying to kill squishy champions). A few from the top of my head would be Katarina, Zed, Kennen, Yasuo, and Riven.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

lmao.

When was it established that manaless champions don't have one rotation of kill?

Literally almost any champion can kill another champion in one rotation given the right situations (such as trying to kill squishy champions). A few from the top of my head would be Katarina, Zed, Kennen, Yasuo, and Riven.

Zed is source champion so is kennen. But yes Riven, Yas and Kata question my mind as well, why champion that able to do such damage is resource less ? Special it give them the advance in lane and trading.

Incarceration1 votes

It's because they rely on cooldowns, trade windows, and timing while trading range and safety.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

It's because they rely on cooldowns, trade windows, and timing while trading range and safety.

But isn't that apply to all champions ? Urgot can't keep trading special early without his passive so he is heavy based on windows and CDR.

Incarceration1 votes

He can poke and there are tradeoffs for choosing certain champions over others. Champions like Yasuo, Riven, and Katarina don't have the ability to contribute as much to their team except for damage.

Jamaree1 votes

Because balance, on a more serious answer though because what their Qs give compared to Garen has a higher power ceiling compared to his.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

Because balance, on a more serious answer though because what their Qs give compared to Garen has a higher power ceiling compared to his.

Well i can agree on yorick about high power ceiling but wukongpart just match garen really. Special garen silence is op against most of champions.

Jamaree1 votes

You also have to factor in the range and armor shred.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

You also have to factor in the range and armor shred.

And he got silence, free slow remove and speed so i think it match the range and armor shred effects.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

http://i63.tinypic.com/t66tk2.png So his Q allow him to break slow and gain movement speed + silence the target and then deal 30-170 AD (40% AD ratio scale) with 8 second CDR. (Not to mention villain post 6 will get 1% extra true damage of their max hp on q hit)

And that cost nothing at all. While Yorick on other hand http://i68.tinypic.com/2ic2ts8.png His Q does dig a grave on death of enemy unit, provide healing of 12-82 double to 24-164 below 50% hp having CDR of 7-4 dealing 30-130(40% AD ratio scale) but it cost 25mana.

MonkeyKing Q on other hand http://i66.tinypic.com/2r1zu3a.png Gain 125 extra range and armor reduction on target with 10-30%, deal 10 -130 (0-40% AD ratio) with CDR of 9-5 and mana cost of 40.

So again why Q of Garen allowed to be manaless ? Like i know that manaless champions should be the champions that not able to finish you in one rotation but right now he able to do that while being manaless ? how that possible.

Because being resourceless is generally OP. Just look at the champions that have it: it's a failed system

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8wUiKKcT,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-08-19T23:37:45.579+0000)

Because being resourceless is generally OP. Just look at the champions that have it: it's a failed system

Then why it still in the game special with all of that damage going around ?

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

Then why it still in the game special with all of that damage going around ?

Because otherwise Yasuo and Kat would be allowed

Summonah123691 votes

Would it make sense that using a sword would take mana?

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

Would it make sense that using a sword would take mana?

Wukong use his staff so ? only his clone would use mana by that logic. Darius Braum use their weapons. Katarina got blink so...

The Ecdysiast1 votes

There's a very simply explanation, and it has nothing to do with gameplay.

Demacia is very strictly against magic. That's why Lux was shunned and why Galio was created. If Garen had mana it'd imply he uses magic.

As for why newer Demacian champions use mana, that's about gameplay.

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8wUiKKcT,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-20T00:28:04.745+0000)

There's a very simply explanation, and it has nothing to do with gameplay.

Demacia is very strictly against magic. That's why Lux was shunned and why Galio was created. If Garen had mana it'd imply he uses magic.

As for why newer Demacian champions use mana, that's about gameplay.

Yet in 2018 and we have alot of balance problems and they leaving such stuff running around. it weird how they see such problem made by such old methods they used to make their champions yet they not fixing it.

420 grams1 votes

Garen is designed to trade and out sustain you in lane with his passive. Having mana would inhibit this niche since he’d either go oom while trying to outsustain you or mana costs would be so low that there wouldn’t be a point in having them

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=420 grams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8wUiKKcT,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-08-20T00:39:35.108+0000)

Garen is designed to trade and out sustain you in lane with his passive. Having mana would inhibit this niche since he’d either go oom while trying to outsustain you or mana costs would be so low that there wouldn’t be a point in having them

But what is the down side of his kit then ? He scale like any champion and he meant to win trade in lane too unless it ranged champion ?

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

But what is the down side of his kit then ?

no range (not even a poke ability like mundos cleaver or olafs axe), no in combat sustain, low mobility (even as far as juggernauts go, udyr and shyvana are still faster), mediocre to low damage against anyone but the villain.

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