Why Is Kindred Q So Crap?

boss10000··1 votes·2,088 views

I honestly don't know why it was made so unbearably weak, compare it to any other ability similar to it in the game and there all so much better, even if you take into consideration the W reduce time (which is still to long) its still really bad.


Analysis

So first lets look at the ability

RANGE: 340 / 500 COST: 30 MANA COOLDOWN: 9

ACTIVE: Lamb dashes in the target direction and fires up to three homing arrows on arrival upon the three nearest targets, dealing physical damage to each. Lamb's current attack target at any proximity will be prioritized by one of the bolts.

Casting Wolf's Frenzy or dashing inside of Wolf's territory will reduce the cooldown of Dance of Arrows to 2 seconds.

PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+ 20% AD)

Jump So lets look the jump range is 340 which is ok not special nothing to really complain about there.

Mana The mana cost, 30 again nothing special about standard for this sort of ability.

Cooldown Now the CD 9 seconds flat, this is stupid when compared to nay other ability like this in the game, so lets look at some other similar abilities with there CD

Vayne Q = COOLDOWN: 6 / 5 / 4 / 3 / 2 Fiora Q = COOLDOWN: 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 (remember the 60% reduction on hit) Ekko E = 13 / 11.5 / 10 / 8.5 / 7

Now lets look at what there abilities also have extra, they all proc on hit effects, while kindred does not, they also all have scaling cooldowns so they get better late game and can be used more often.


When comparing Kindred Q to the other ADC here Vayne you realise just how bad Kindred Q is, so lets go into depth comparing these aspects.

So full description of Vayne Q

RANGE: 300 COST: 30 MANA COOLDOWN: 6 / 5 / 4 / 3 / 2

ACTIVE: Vayne quickly rolls toward the cursor's location, causing her next basic attack within 6 seconds to deal bonus physical damage.

Tumble resets Vayne's autoattack timer.

FINAL HOUR: Tumble stealth's Vayne for 1 second on cast.

BONUS PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50% AD

So when compared to kindred we can see that:

  1. The coodown is around lower (kindred is only ever lower in early game with W)
  2. It scales into late game with lower CD
  3. It damage is all round more (with 100 AD at level 1 Kindred Q does 80 damage, while Vayne does 130)
  4. Vayne's Q applies on hit effects, this can not be understated.

Some damage number projects:

If both Kindred and Vayne had 400 AD

  • Vayne Q would deal 600 damage, apply full onhit effects and be usable all the time at every 2 secs
  • Kindred Q would deal 260 damage, apply no on hit effects, be on a 9 sec cooldown and only have 2 sec CD with W up.

When you compare those two like that what would you prefer 600 Damage every 2 secs no matter what, with full on hit effects, or a 260 damage ability with no on hit effects and only sometimes usable every 2 secs, but most of the time is 9 secs.

There is no real contest between the two and kindred's Q is really in the need of some major buffs to how the ability works and it really needs to be changed to better scale into the late game.


It feels like when Kindred was being made and tested they really over compensated the ability cause it feels like it was gutted to death at some point and needs to be buffed up to make the ability alot more useful and make it better instead of usable only when W is up.

What should be changed:

  1. Make Q count as an AA and apply full on hit effects
  2. Give it scaling reduction so 9/8/7/6/5 seconds at each rank
  3. give it % or flat reduction when used in W so it more useful late game (e.g. if you hit an enemy in W it CD gets reduced by 60% (like fiora Q) or 4 seconds off its current CD (like Gnar Q when he catches it.)

These changes would help to make the ability feel alot more useful and less crap when used, cause at the minute the Q feels so out of the rest of her kit, this is especially shown in the fact that her Q doe not proc / put stack on her E (THIS NEED TO CHANGE) and it feels like its just there to be there, offering littler more than a jump to get closer to the enemy or jump away.

14 Comments

Drunk Tsundere4 votes

You can't compare the direct numbers on Kindred's Q to Vayne's, Ekkos, or anyone else's similar spells without looking at the rest of their kit.

Kindred's Q is the strongest part of their kit. I seriously doubt that you've ever even played them if you think that their Q is bad.

Also this is the internet, it's OK to say "shit", we won't tell your mom.

boss100001 votes

Statistically no, as i posted its damage is weak, your can't change the numbers, it does little damage, you can't change hard numbers no matter how you feel about the ability.

Drunk Tsundere2 votes

Well the problem with that is that they have damage elsewhere in their kit. Like a lot of damage. And good base stats. Vayne on the other hand has low base stats and only one other direct damage spell in her kit. That's why hers does more damage. Not that Vayne is a bad champion, but they just have different abilities.

You can't just compare them side by side and say that one does more damage and therefor must be stronger. Also Kindred's W puts it on a super low CD. You would know that if you read their kit.

Umbernox3 votes

First off, it isn't crap. It's actually balanced with her kit for once. I am actually very happy with riot about kindred. Granted, there are a couple of things they should do to make her not be able to 1 shot baron, (literally, look it up). But other than that, her whole kit is pretty balanced. She has long cd's which makes it to where she can't spam everything like vayne, or ekko. Then, the damage is made up for with her e. It does damage based on current health, which is very effective against any champion, seeing as it isn't max health, which would only work on tanks. Her q is perfect, because it does an ok amount of damage for the cd, and she doesn't have an insane amount of mobility. In my opinion, and it is my opinion, she is one of the most balanced champs that has come out in quite some time.

Drunk Tsundere1 votes

*Their, Kindred is 2 entities <3

Your analysis is spot on though.

Sachabot1 votes

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. They have an overbearing amount of neutral objective pressure even without Smite, but they are pretty well balanced. I want the other blink/dash skills brought in line with Kin's Q.

boss100001 votes

erm, what are you reading for her E?

cause it does: BONUS PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 (+ 5% target's max. health) (+ 20% AD)

(+ 5% target's max. health)

Her passive is the part that does current health, and even then kindred Q does not apply her passive as her passive only works on AA.

Umbernox3 votes

Also, that is the issue with league right now. Everyone wants to just be able to 1 shot everyone. You said you would rather have the 600 ad with 2 sec cd, and just melt someone rather than actually earn the kill by strategizing better. Honestly. I had a 1 for all game with my team as kindred and theirs as vayne. Kindred is a lot better than vayne, because of her kit. Vayne just has straight damage, and she can only really do alot if she gets super fed, and if she hits a condemn. No one wants to strategize anymore. They just want to be able to do a crap ton of damage. If you want something like that, go play something like dota, where even the supports can take on assassins. In my opinion, it is more satisfying when I out strategize someone rather than just go in and melt them cause of a broken kit.

DrNova1 votes

Not siding with either side here, but for arguments sake strategy won't help much if you are getting out damaged and deleted before you can implement your strategy.

WinBoat1 votes

Kindred is balanced.

First off, the Q is best late game with tons of crit and attack speed. You top it with W, and you can just spam Q and crit everyone. Can be deadly in team fights hitting three different people and critting them.

boss100001 votes

Q Doesn't crit so I don't know what your on about, it applies spell effects, so no Crit, no Lifesteal, No Sheen Nothing so you clearly don't know about the ability, it literally only does what i said above.

Primaquarius1 votes

Her Q is combo damage, and it also helps her as a gap-closer or escape

boss100001 votes

What you mean by Combo damage, because it don't work with any other part of her kit, it extra damage no doubt but it doesn't work with the other aspects of her kit at all.

Doesn't apply E Doesn't apply Passive

It does damage for sure but it doesn't really "combo"

Ultraboomer1 votes

Vayne's q technically doesn't apply on-hit effects. it modifies her next auto attack so if her q applied on-hit effects as well it would proc them twice on that hit. also her auto attack only targets one person without item 3085 where kindred q hits 3 enemies. Her ad scalings are really low on all of her abilities because her passive's %current hp and her e's %max hp are meant to compensate for it, which they do. and you're right that kindred q does not apply on hit effects, but it does increase your w stacks to get you a heal. and it does charge a spellblade proc that can be used on your next basic attack if you've built a sheen item. Her cooldown on her q does not need to scale down because at all stages of the game after level 2 or 3 it's effectively 2 seconds because you will almost always use her w so you can do the most damage possible, and her w's cooldown does go down each rank. I think her q is well balanced when you remember not to look at one ability out of context. if it applied on hit effects I think it would be too powerful.

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