Energy should be removed

The Ecdysiast·Apr 21, 2018·6 votes·1,803 views

The idea behind Energy is that a champion is supposed to have a window where they're guaranteed their burst, rather than having to manage mana as they poke. However, the fact every Energy champion has a built-in ability to refund a large chunk of their energy simply by doing their burst renders that idea pointless. These champions might as well have no cost, since they function exactly the same as if the cost were nonexistent.

I think energy should be removed from the game entirely, and each of the four champions who use it should be adjusted to either mana or costless (none of them seem like they'd use fury or blood, etc.).

17 Comments

OurLestradeApr 21, 20184 votes

If you mess up with Shen's stupidly large energy pool you're in big trouble.

InfernapeApr 21, 20181 votes

Is there any logical reason why Shen has so much energy? All they'd have to do is reduce his energy to 200 and change his costs/refund.

hhaavviikkApr 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If you mess up with Shen's stupidly large energy pool you're in big trouble.

oddly enough his energy costs went unchanged, they basically doubled his base energy, ability energy costs and energy regen for...some reason, in the beginning it seemed all it did was put energy runes in the garbage can but now it's just weird

VyntriusApr 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

oddly enough his energy costs went unchanged, they basically doubled his base energy, ability energy costs and energy regen for...some reason, in the beginning it seemed all it did was put energy runes in the garbage can but now it's just weird

"Oddly enough his energy costs went unchanged" "They basically doubled his... ability energy costs" Lol? The first part is wrong but idk how you're immediately contradicting yourself. Btw his energy regeneration never changed, it stayed at 10 per second before and after the rework.

PhantomGGApr 21, 20181 votes

Their is plenty of time zed players run out of energy and can find themselves fucked over by it, I think zed by far executes the theme of energy and how it should work the best out of his counter parts. Shen also can easily fuck himself over with his dash being a costly ability. Akali and kennen however do feel pretty unlimited.

VolatileAkaliApr 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Their is plenty of time zed players run out of energy and can find themselves fucked over by it, I think zed by far executes the theme of energy and how it should work the best out of his counter parts. Shen also can easily fuck himself over with his dash being a costly ability. Akali and kennen however do feel pretty unlimited.

Akali q uses 60 energy and refunds 40 if proc'd, and you're gonna use your e atlest 2 times which is 40 too and the most important piece is your w which is 40 (late game stats) so: 200-60+40=180-(40)x2=100-40= 60 so if yu dont proc your next q you're fucked.

The EcdysiastApr 27, 20181 votes

Zed is unlimited unless the Zed player doesn't actually know how to play Zed, and thus doesn't ever use his refund. Shen's refund and only cc are the same ability, so if you miss that you're bad at Shen anyway.

The fact the worst Zed and Shen players can't land their AoE abilities isn't something that should be considered.

OatheSwornApr 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Their is plenty of time zed players run out of energy and can find themselves fucked over by it, I think zed by far executes the theme of energy and how it should work the best out of his counter parts. Shen also can easily fuck himself over with his dash being a costly ability. Akali and kennen however do feel pretty unlimited.

You forgot Lee Sin but I can tell you as a Zed player that you have to watch the energy bar carefully or else you will find yourself lacking in a dire situation. Still happens to me time to time even though I tend to check on the bar before engaging.

CochoApr 21, 20181 votes

With energy, you can have lower cooldowns but be unable to spam an ability off cooldown. Good energy managment is a thing.

I cant speak for zed or kennen, but current akali would need a lot of changes to work with mana or no mana.

She can't spam E in fights, she runs out of energy super quickly.

With mana, her laning phase and midgame would be completely gutted. Especially midlane. She would have to buy mana 1st item. She would run oom trying to zone with Qs. That means she's a lot weaker in lane. She's had to use mana to CS. She can't rush gunblade. Champion is now dumpstered lol

What if we make her manaless? She'd spam Q more. She would now be able to spam E which kinda gives me nightmares. So her cooldowns would need to be increased significantly. Gutting her mid even more.

The EcdysiastApr 27, 20181 votes

Energy management is too easy, considering it refunds on targeted or AoE abilities for every single one of them.

If we make them manaless, they can be given higher cooldowns since the point of energy doesn't actually apply when they have both a refund and lower cooldowns to begin with.

DW DianaApr 21, 20181 votes

Energy allows them to sustain in lane better than mana users, but limits them to sudden bursts of damage rather than more constant damage. What I don't get is why divers like Diana and Irelia don't use a similar method. In the case of diana her passive could instead restore some hp, and they could lower the overly high cd of her e and w. And why does katarina just get to have her abilities for free while the rest of the burst champions have mana and energy? Anyway, energy is fine, mana is currently fine but will soon be dicked, rage tends to be op, and having nothing seems a bit silly :)

The EcdysiastApr 27, 20181 votes

The issue is, as I pointed out, they do have more consistent damage because of the energy refund. They are functionally different from no cost, but have higher damage and lower cooldowns to supposedly make up for the "window" that doesn't actually exist because of the refund.

Teridax68Apr 21, 20181 votes

Personally, I'd just remove energy refunds on kits. I think energy itself is fine as a hard cap to one's continuous ability use, but the problem right now is that energy champion kits all too often reward good play with persistent power, rather than burst effectiveness, as is meant to be the intention. This doesn't necessarily mean energy champions should have more burst damage; rather, this should mean that skilful use of abilities should grant some immediate bonus that would give those champions a better chance to win within their limited window of time. If champions are to have energy, then they should have a clear and imminent point in time where they run out of steam, and if that's not what Riot wants, then I agree that the resource should be removed altogether.

The EcdysiastApr 27, 20181 votes

Well the only thing energy does functionally different from having no resource is the refund. They have lower cooldowns compared to similar champions so that they can make use of the refunds.

It should simply be a cooldown refund with no resource.

Teridax68Apr 27, 20181 votes

I don't think that's really equivalent. If a champion were resourceless, but had cooldown refunds, they'd just be able to go non-stop, with only their cooldowns dictating their fighting ability. By contrast, an energy champion with no refunds, or one who doesn't make use of them, eventually runs dry, and is forced to back out in order to recover their energy, even when their cooldowns come up. Energy therefore works as a pretty hard cap on one's ability to fight continuously, and removing energy refunds would make that cap more defining.

The EcdysiastApr 27, 20181 votes

If they were to remove the refund, that would be fine too.

OatheSwornApr 27, 20181 votes

If they made energy champions costless like Katarina, Zed would be completely broken. I can't say much for the other energy users as I don't play them as much. Zed is slightly limited right now because of his energy costs but if you took that out, he'd be able to play unrestricted. Zed with 40% CDR at max level has some pretty low cooldowns:

Q - 3.6(s)
W - 8.4(s) and lasts for 5(s)
E - 1.8(s).

Once Zed reached the cap, he could throw 2 shurikens and spin 3 times, everytime, all while his shadow is on an 8.4 second cooldown. This would mean that he would be able to throw a shadow down, spam Q and E, wait 3 seconds, and do it all over again. His W shadow stays in place for 5 seconds and the cooldown starts the moment the W is thrown. Zed could literally zone everyone out just because he can spam abilities over and over even while far away. Normally, with energy, this wouldn't be possible unless Zed managed to hit every single ability prior so that he could have barely enough energy. He wouldn't be able to do this again until his energy bar was completely full. If this happened, I can tell you with 100% certainty that every Zed player would play way more aggressively (and likely win more trades) because now, for one, they don't have to watch their energy bar and two, unrestricted costs would make him be able to deal maximum damage every single time, not just when he lands all of his Qs and Es. Did you honestly think this was a good idea?