Top

The Ecdysiast··3 votes·646 views

Recently, I asked for some advice from a diamond friend of mine whom I've watched climb for 5 years. He said the best bet for playing top is to pick champions who have heavy healing in their kit, that isn't tied to their damage dealt. Darius, Illaoi, Vlad, Swain, etc. Lifesteal in-kit or bought is directly tied to the damage you're attempting to deal, often to a tank. So it's worse than a 5% missing HP heal.

That's because the combat healing makes them really, really easy to win duels with. At top, that's what wins you the lane.

These champions are too strong, and need nerfs. It's not that the design is horrible. But when the advantage they have can only be overcome by picking champions like Teemo or Vayne, who are not designed to go top lane and can only be picked if you happen to be picking after the opponent, it's not fair.

Champs with high winrates overall aren't that way because they're fair. It's because picking them gives you an advantage.

Edit 2: If you don't understand that this isn't about my own skill, you don't understand enough to contribute.

What I've said is that I've started to USE these champions on my friend's suggestion, and it's made winning a lot easier because their strengths overshadow their weaknesses so well. I'm not stupid enough to pick them when the enemy has the chance to pick someone to kite me. The problem is not that I'm losing to them. It's that It's unfairly easy for me to win with them.

29 Comments

Calabok3 votes

Skewing your own logic to the boards and insisting you are right doesn't make it fact

The Ecdysiast1 votes

High winrate= unfair.

That's the fact. The only one I stated. Pretending it doesn't exist just to be rude doesn't do anything either, friend.

Keepe1 votes

Our friend here is right! All things that make win rates higher are unfair.

Remove Death's Dance and Blood Thirster from the game! It makes the winrate of ADCs go up.

Remove all knock ups from the game. They higher Yasuo's winrate.

Remove ALL forms of disable and crowd control. They make the winrates of champions higher.

Let's make it so there ARE no items! ALL CHAMPIONS HAVE THE SAME STATS AND CAN USE ONLY BASIC ATTACKS.

LET'S BUILD A WALL AROUND SUMMONER'S RIFT AND MAKE TEEMO PAY FOR IT!

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Up above 50%, which riot considers the fair number.

It's really not difficult to understand.

Anything that brings winrates up to high above 50%, yes. They've done that. Runeglaive's synergy with Ezreal was removed. Cinderhulk's synergy with Sejuani was removed.

Very, very simple concept to understand. You seem to be under the impression that anyone complaining on boards must have no idea how to play against a champion they dislike. As I've said multiple times, I like these champions and I like how easy it is for me to win with them. I know they're unfair because even against counters, it's not difficult to get a win because along with their healing they're also late-game centered.

Keepe1 votes

You seem to be under the impression that anyone complaining on boards must have no idea how to play against a champion they dislike.

Not at all. I am under the impression that you see the need to nerf things that really don't need it. There are so many things in LoL that you could be complaining about, and you choose a simple mechanic that has already taken a beating for some champions with, for example, the Removal of Will of the Ancients.

If champions with heal in their mechanics is such a overpowered concept, then remove lifesteal and health regen. Remove all variety in the game.

And yae, Riot said unto them, "Let every champion be Garen without any skills, masteries, runes, or fun." and there was much groaning among the populace.

I can understand the desire to nerf things that seem broken, and HEALING is amazingly not really among these things for the time being, with the exception of some supports. But you're coming here and saying "Nerf almost every top laner." for the sole reason that you feel the healing mechanics are too strong because they have over 50% win rate.

You look at the numbers and thump them like a godsdarned bible. As an actual PLAYER in League of Legends, I EXPERIENCE that these mechanics are far from broken, and that's from me fighting with and against them.

Is it a pain to deal with at times? Yes. Does not mean that I don't rise to the challenge.

In conclusion

Keep your sanctimonious bolshevik to yourself, especially if you're going to ignore everyone else who does not agree with you.

Oh, and before you whine "Harassment" again, you replied to a comment that was not even aimed at you. Don't complain.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Keepe2 votes

That is a very interesting point, but I respectfully disagree.

Each of these people have counterplay.

The healing mechanic is counter-able by

item 3123 An item people neglect, and item 3165 a standard item to any mage.

Everyone has a mechanic they play with. That's what makes them unique. As Riot has said, "If we wanted complete and utter balance, all champions having the same advantage over every other champion, we'd have a game where Garen was the only character." I paraphrase, of course.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

You can't disagree with higher winrates. Yes, executioner's calling counters them but at the cost of whatever else you were going to buy while they can still deal their damage and still have healing, regardless of its reduction. You sarifice the gold for a scepter to match their healing in exchange for an item that doesn't delete their healing entirely.

And Morello's activating at only 30% or below means it doesn't work half the time.

Keepe2 votes

Calling. 800 gold. Buy early. Not much of an investment but pays off extremely well. Allow me to go into depth now.

The champions specifically mentioned.

"Darius, Illaoi, Vlad, Swain"

Darius, if he pulls you in, stay literally on top of him. This hurts his ability to heal.

Illaoi. Her entire motif is literally motion. That's how you play against her, you stay in motion. You play a top laner who is fairly decent with kiting scenarios. GP, Kennen, so on.

Vlad is a tricky one. He's got a point and click heal. His early game is, however, fairly weak. Oh, did I mention Executioner's Calling? That hurts him. A lot. It would be a good choice on any AD Top in this case. Like, for example, Riven.

Swain is over dramatized as being "LOL BROKEN." He's one champion who needs to keep a firm eye on mana. Learn to read when he's going to snare. Stay moving. You've got early and mid game in the bag.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

See, the thing is... People already do that. But their win and ban rates are still higher because anyone playing that champion knows that those are your only options for fighting them and by adjusting accordingly maintains the advantage they have.

I know how to counter play them. So does everyone. It's not that every player in the game doesn't know these things, it's that the people who play those champions know them too.

Keepe2 votes

You mean people need to adjust their gameplay to fit a situation at hand?

That sounds exactly like a game SHOULD be played.

Yes, people know their weaknesses and will try to cover them. It's your job to keep pounding against them till they crack. Healer? Buy an item. Don't want the item? Bring Ignite. Don't want ignite? Don't bring the issue to the forums on your refusal to counter specific mechanics.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

You're not understanding.

THEY ARE PLAYED LIKE THAT.

THEY NEED TO BE NERFED BECAUSE THEY HAVE ABOVE 50% WINRATE DESPITE THAT.

You're just fucking harassing me as if I don't know how to play against these champions. I do. It's not hard to counter them.

The issue is that, even against counters they have high winrates. You don't seem to understand that.

You're acting as if they have high winrates solely because no one wants to bring things to counter them when that simply is not the case.

Don't want easy champions to be nerfed? Play a different moba and hope they never change things that make you feel like a good player without having to be one.

You're ignoring what I'm saying in favor of pretending that people don't already play against the champions correctly. They do.

Keepe2 votes

Firstly, reign in your temper. Flipping a table and accusing me of harassing you is hardly proving a point.

Secondly, all I am saying is that these champions have counterplay. If they're beating you, you need to learn how to play against them better.

Swain, I never have issues with. I spent a lot of time playing him back in season two through four, so I know what makes him tick. He's a bit of a jerk, but he's not overpowered. Darius, I rarely even SEE him, and I can still lock him down. Illaoi, MOTION. Literally that's it. MOTION. She only has ONE ABILITY that's not a bloody skillshot. Vlad, burst him the heck down and cut off his healing when he tries to go for a kill.

I dislike playing Darius and Illaoi, I have not really touched Vlad since the rework, and I don't play Swain much in ranked because I am not often in the mood to manage my mana with him. I don't play these people. I kill them.

"Don't want easy champions to be nerfed?" Let's see. Gangplank, Yasuo, Annie, Yi, and Blitz? Sugar, if anyone does not want easy champions to be nerfed, it's you. Go play a Moba where things never change.

That being said, I am done wasting my cognitive resources on you. Continue this "Thread" if you wish, but I know when to act the adult and step out. Best of luck to you in future endeavors.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[deleted]

Keepe1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Stekeltje2 votes

So what exactly is the point of this post then? Those champions needs a nerf?

I've never played a champ that can heal (in their kit) and got into Diamond without problems, that's OP too? :o

Keepe1 votes

His point is that he's right and all other opinions are wrong.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

The lack of the diamond under your name begs to differ, and I'm simply stating the facts. Champions with above 55% winrates need to be nerfed. There is a list of a few of them. One guy wants to continue to harass me because he doesn't understand that extremely simple concept, that's on him.

It's not a matter of opinions, it's a matter of fact.

Stekeltje2 votes

Well I just added my example to nag you a bit, whether I'm Diamond+ or not isn't really relevant here.

Still I fail to see the point of this topic. I mean, you're saying champions with over 55% winrates should be banned. Why? You really have to come up with valid arguments instead of "I win most of my games since I've been playing with them" etc.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Then you must just be new. It's common knowledge that that's the point Riot considers a champion unfair and nerfs them. They've just spent too long at that point, is all.

NotCounter1 votes

you just blew my mind

darius, illaoi, vlad, swain, irelia, fiora, maokai, trundle, hecarim, olaf, mordekaiser, gangplank, garen, nasus, kayle, mundo, chogath, renekton, tryndamere, even good ol' aatrox and yorick

almost every champion that's supposed to go top has healing O_O

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

Ekko Jax Jayce Kennen Lissandra Malphite Poppy Riven Rumble Ryze Shen Shyvana Singed Teemo MonkeyKing are top champs as well that dont have healing.

Toastersaot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8gJsnEJe,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-08-01T02:42:03.750+0000)

Ekko Jax Jayce Kennen Lissandra Malphite Poppy Riven Rumble Ryze Shen Shyvana Singed Teemo MonkeyKing are top champs as well that dont have healing.

Singed has massive health Regen from Ult, and Ekko has a heal on his ult. I guess what your looking for is Passive or Basic Ability healing?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Singed has health regen after the point where it no longer matters. He'll have already lost lane by then.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Tryn's is only ever a 200 heal at the most. Fiora's is only her ultimate, which by then a decent Darius would already have killed you 3 times. Olaf and Nasus are from lifesteal, so they need to be up at their melee range to use it. Kayle isn't a top laner.

Cho and Trundle don't fall into the category of in-combat healing because theirs is only when killing minions. Lane sustain isn't the same as duel healing, otherwise Garen would be on the list. Aatrox isn't relevant because everyone else listed is a better pick, including Yorick.

And then there's the other half of the top-laners, as well as anyone you might want who's usually mid or usually jungle.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

so you want them to nerf any toplaner that can defend itself from teemo???

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Teemo's specifically a counter pick against auto-attack and zero-sustain champions. Against the ones I mentioned, he's at just as much of a disadvantage as anyone else.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

sees no denial lol

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Well you're right. They can stand up to Teemo because they have something that makes them strong against both Teemo and the champions he counters, which is a problem.

It's like if rock beat both scissors and paper.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

I don't see how Teemo counters Darius.

More from Gameplay

More by The Ecdysiast