We have Abyssal Scepter for Mages, which is a great item currently.
Why can't we have a pickaxe + chain vest item? Why does AP itemization have to be so much better?
Just bring Atma's back, remove the HP scaling, replace the crit cloack with a pickaxe, and give it some cool passive or active
Blastires10 votesWell......AD itemisation allow us to crit for 250% damage with a 
that's something a mage will never have. They also don't benefit a lot from spell vamp while we benefit A LOT from lifesteal (late game, hit some minions and you are full hp.)
Ap itemisation isn't better or worse. It's just different.
An AD+armor item would make the game REALLY unbalanced. Yeah nothing give AD+armor. But we have flat HP or sustain on most of our item 
And let's be honest. Armor protects from AD damage. HP does not give a fuck about AD or AP.
TL:DR Mage and adc/bruiser/tank have different need, so they get different item.
Elisai9 votesImagine champions that need armor and are based fully on AD. Lets say Talon had this new item... He'd frick adcs and get out safely. Riot leaves openings for a reason. In fact all of these AD assasins with items like maw of malmortis and merc treads pertaining toward Zed obviously. The only thing the Zed can't do and get kills is sell an ad item for some armor. So that will leave an opening for adcs to kill him or any ad champion in-general. If you handed him an ad armor item Zed's would buy it in an instant. That'd be overpowered imo.
FalconPawwwwnch5 votesThis logic makes no sense
Ap assassins can do the exact same thing and they have access to abyssal and zhonya's
If there's a few abuse cases then you settle those abuse cases
Most champions would be fine with an item like this
Elisai10 votesThis logic makes no sense
Ap assassins can do the exact same thing and they have access to abyssal and zhonya's
If there's a few abuse cases then you settle those abuse cases
Most champions would be fine with an item like this
Not really. AP champions are weak in auto attacks and pretty much useless without abilities. As while if Darius auto'd you you'd definitely die first. Plus ap champions are squishy as hell. Them having abyssal and zhon wont really matter because if they get caught out for a second they'll die. And if darius gets caught out he might be able to kill someone before he dies. Adding an armor ad item to the mix just isnt healthy for the current playstyle.
CISTERN1 votes[{quoted}](name=Faal Rovaniik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8aloiiIU,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-06-08T20:41:18.334+0000)
Not really. AP champions are weak in auto attacks and pretty much useless without abilities. As while if Darius auto'd you you'd definitely die first. Plus ap champions are squishy as hell. Them having abyssal and zhon wont really matter because if they get caught out for a second they'll die. And if darius gets caught out he might be able to kill someone before he dies. Adding an armor ad item to the mix just isnt healthy for the current playstyle.
Rumble, swain Vlad q e pool q e anivia, cassi, heimer,teemo, azir, karthus, kayle, kog, liss (low cooldown q), ryze,tf All these ap dps champions have sustained dps and some of them can built zonyans or abysal. AAs give sustained dps, where is the difference with ad-meele. But yeap i agree this item must not be abusable by ad-assassins, because ad-assassins have burst-dps and sustained-dps(AAs) too
USG Morta3 votesbut they dont get crit or lifesteal which makes it easier to jump them when they have to wait for cooldowns.
Qazgir5 votesJust bring Atma's back, remove the HP scaling, replace the crit cloack with a pickaxe, and give it some cool passive or active
So bring Atmas back but make it nothing like Atmas? Cool idea anyway.
It Hertz When IP3 votesI'd like to see old Atma's return, period. Maybe minus the crit, I don't know many AD bruisers that also built crit other than Garen and Jax.
Kouga4 votesAP and AD itemization are not the same, because the champions who utilize them, and their roles within the game, are completely different.
ADCs are, in general, encouraged/forced to build primarily offensive, with maybe one or two defensive items. This is because if they can build damage they are a massive source of damage throughout a teamfight - the raw sustained damage of a High-AD, Crit-hitting carry with Lifesteal to sustain them makes them a necessary part of every team comp. They take down towers the fastest, they deal the most reliable damage, and so on. Part of the balance to this is to force them into a "risk vs reward" build path - the offensive items they want won't give them the defenses they need.
Basically if ADs had easy access to AD/Armor, they'd just stack that item and call it a day. In early/mid game, the biggest threat to the bot lane AD is the enemy bot lane AD. So you rush that item, and then you get into a race against the enemy where you're both just stacking as much of it as you can because there's no reason not to - you get both stats you need to kill the other.
APs have a little bit of this but not in a way that would be abused like the ADs. For one, AP paths tend to be less rigid. With few exceptions, ADs build very predictable items. PD/IE/LW/BT is pretty much standard for your average ADC. Sure, an AP can rush Abyssal, but Abyssal isn't always the best item for APs. To get the MR reduction you have to get close to your target, so that part is ineffective if you're a long range mage. And if you're a High-AP Ratio mage that wants to rush a Rabadons, you may not rush Abyssal. Same for mages who need to rush the Hourglass for their ultimates or to survive a bursty enemy.
Even in terms of boots. As a Mage V Mage. Build Sorcs, and be squishier, but deadly? Or build Mercs, and be beefier? And what if the enemy has CC, but you want burst? Where as ADs almost always just go Berzerkers.
Also, APs tend to be more focused around burst - cast a few spells, throw all your shit on CD, and then hope you live long enough for your next spell rotation. So having defenses during your "down time" is more crucial for mages. ADs, on the other hand, never have downtime because they can always AA.
BluePolarizer1 votesAtma's Impaler had every stat that an ADC wants:
the most gold efficient AD in the game - equal to a BF sword late game on base HP alone. 15% crit, only 5% off from Shiv. 45 armor.
only 2200 gold with Avarice blade as a component.
Was Atma's core on all ADCs?
Kouga2 votesAtma's Impaler had every stat that an ADC wants:
the most gold efficient AD in the game - equal to a BF sword late game on base HP alone.
It may be "gold efficient" in terms of its cost, but in order to actually get a BF's sword with of AD, you had to have 3,333 HP (and to get a Blood Thirster's worth of damage, which at the time of Atma's was 100, you'd need twice that much health). Don't be mistaken thinking that just because something is economically efficient means that it's a worthwhile item. Atma's fell into a trap precisely because it was the AD/Armor item. In order to not make it abused by ADs they gave it health scaling, which made it unappealing for ADCs, but if they made the scaling too high, then you ran into the days of At-Mog's and the Unkillable Mega-Tanks.
Atma's is not a good case for your argument, especially considering that it was removed, proving its lack of game health :\
BluePolarizer1 votesThe reason was that it wasn't meant to be an ADC item.
It was meant to be a melee fighter item.
Rito hates melee fighters.
GroundRuleDouble3 votesIt'd be too OP. It would be WAY too good on AD Carries.
FalconPawwwwnch3 votesThen make it melee only
Not that hard
Anonagon3 votesit would be worthless on ADCs. they don't have the health to back up the armor, and they can't afford to replace an AS/crit item for it. Not to mention that with how strong armor pen is, a single armor item isn't going to save anyone, and armor isn't going to do shit against the mages that are going to kill them
Wînter Fox3 votesI suggested an AD+Armor item with grevious wounds as a passive once.
It got downvoted to oblivion.
ProfDrDeath15 votesWell, you combined a difficult to balance item with a mechanic that gets phased out of the game for being difficult to balance.
So, the downvotes are somewhat understandable.
Wînter Fox2 votesThere's no excuse for not having at least one AD + Armor item for bruisers with crap like 
in the game.
And grevious wounds is perfectly fine - 
Elisai9 votesThere's no excuse for not having at least one AD + Armor item for bruisers with crap like
And grevious wounds is perfectly fine -
Imagine a zed that you cant kill but he can kill you.. You're asking for cancer mate.
Wînter Fox3 votesZed never built Atma's, and wouldn't bother wasting gold on a new low AD and armor item. I'd be way more concerned about: 
Mandang02 votesThat's because a lot of the value in Atma's was tied up in crit chance and a passive that rewarded health stacking.
If we reintroduce Atma's without either of those, but with more AD to compensate, it'll be a lot more attractive to AD casters.
And, because others have brought it up, Riot just tried to change Abyssal, so I wouldn't assume Riot thinks that stat combination is healthy in AP either.
Duke Anax1 votesYou read that patch note? Yes they tried to change Abyssal, but they didn't change anything about the AP/MR nature, no they even put health on top of that.
Rinky Dinky2 votesDid you even look at what they did to that item? lol
Duke Anax1 votesyes?
TotalJerk3 votesBecause the main people running it would be champions like Darius and Zed
Aeolian Melodies2 votesAbyssal is getting a rework, it will no longer be usable on mages.
Svddenly2 votesAbyssal rework was cancelled
WolfBV1 votes[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8aloiiIU,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-06-08T23:13:40.427+0000)
Abyssal is getting a rework, it will no longer be usable on mages.
I thought that rework was scrapped. .-.
Thanotos Omega1 votesIt was shelved long term, they still think it needs fixed but the tested change didn't work out, so they will work out a new plan, then try again,
Sona Ping2 votes"Why does AP itemization have to be so much better?"
Because AD is SO much better a statistics than AP. AP's better itemization makes up for the weaknesses of the champions who build it as well as the weaknesses of the Stat.
DrCyanide1 votesCould it be that 
is allowed to currently exist because 
exist? If so, then it would stand to reason that an AD + Armor item can't exists because there's no fast-and-easy Armor Pen item to counter it.
ChaoticPinecone1 votesthis would snowball top lane even harder.
BluePolarizer1 votesJust bring Atma's back as is. It was a godlike item on some champs.
NuSix31 votesMaybe when ADs require a mana regen item as their first buy.
AHeroNamedHawke1 votesMaybe when ADs require a mana regen item as their first buy.
/ 
oh no literally all the mana regen Ill ever need + 20% CDR + damage + grevious wounds / MR
i am literally crippled with this purchase
Silents4291 votesAs much as I miss Atma's the logic behind not having an AD + Armor item is sound. It really is bad for the game.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesNope. You can't have nice things because .
