Why Nidalee is being worked on to be better in lane, but champions like Master Yi or WW are not?

PiVoRx·Jul 20, 2016·19 votes·2,016 views

So Nidalee is one of the top junglers now, always was, still can do pretty good job in mid and top lane, was played in competitive matches in multiple roles many times and now shes again being worked to be overall better.

But on the other side, there are champions like Master Yi, Warwick or Shyvana that can do only one thing and are not even good enough at it to be picked over any other top junglers that can also lane pretty well (Nidalee, Gragas, Ekko).

Can i ask why some champions are pretty powerful in multiple roles but other ones can do only one and are pretty bad at it?

44 Comments

DynikusJul 20, 201610 votes

ww is getting a full rework. master yi and shyvana are far from weak and can also be played in lane with about the same level of success as nidalee.

PiVoRxJul 20, 20162 votes

Yes they can be played in lane but not as the same level as Nidalee or any other "actuall" lane champs. Nobody would prefer to have Mid Yi over Zed/LB, meanwhile Yi is not prefered in jungle over Nida or Gragas.

YumScrumptious96Jul 20, 20164 votes

Nidalee isn't a lane champ, she's being changed heavily and we have no idea if she will be good in lane or not. As of now she's pretty bad to pick into lane, as all your damage requires a tough skillshot that doesn't go through minions, nor does she have any CC (and the 0.50 second slow isn't gonna do much either). Her late game is abysmal, you become a heal bot that throws a bunch of poke that doesn't do much unless it hits far away. I'd rather have the Yi as he can late game carry and has decent spikes.

DynikusJul 20, 20165 votes

Nidalee is a horrible lane champ at the moment. I can't think of many people that would prefer to have midalee over zed or lb either.

YumaS2AstralJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Nidalee is a horrible lane champ at the moment. I can't think of many people that would prefer to have midalee over zed or lb either.

Well, Nidalee still has something that neither Zed nor LeBlanc have: sustain.

However you could just play Vladimir if you wanted a sustain based AP champion.

My Waifu VanillaJul 20, 20163 votes

Oh yeah that 45 base heal at rank 1 (you are not maxing it first if you want to be relevant since AD Nidalee is not good anymore). Also, if you DO max it first it costs a whopping 120 mana for a 205 heal on a 12 second cooldown (very expensive for little return since most of that mana cost is justified with the AS steroid on the E).

CppLJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes they can be played in lane but not as the same level as Nidalee or any other "actuall" lane champs. Nobody would prefer to have Mid Yi over Zed/LB, meanwhile Yi is not prefered in jungle over Nida or Gragas.

And why not? you have dmg reduction and sustain ,LB doesnt ,you have better wave clear than her , you scale way better than LB into late game.I if you know how to play ,every champ is good.Dont be one of these meta sheeps...

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 20, 20167 votes

you want to see WW in lane again?

You are a sick person

RalanrJul 20, 20161 votes

All that sustain. It's like he never dies.

My Waifu VanillaJul 20, 20161 votes

Atleast he runs out of mana due to rather poor mana regen options for him. Frozen Heart doesn't quite cut it as much as Chalice+Philo did in s1/2.

SpoofghoulJul 20, 20161 votes

item 3010 is your new friend

if they poke you get mana and then you heal yourself

if they dont poke you wont need the mana to cast q all the time

CppLJul 20, 20163 votes

WW is waiting for his rework.Yi can be played in lane.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 20, 20162 votes

Riot's special champion.Nidalee is weak lets buff her.

YumScrumptious96Jul 20, 201613 votes

You call those buffs lol.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You call those buffs lol.

I said Riot's absurd mentality.

YumScrumptious96Jul 20, 20165 votes

Stay salty my friends, dos lanzas.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 20, 20161 votes

[deleted]

YumScrumptious96Jul 20, 20165 votes

I made a joke so I'm drunk and unnecessary? What does unnecessary in this context even mean? Keep acting like my rank matters, because I have played all of maybe 5 ranked games in the past 2 months, but by all means float your boat. You can call me bad but at least I can beat Nidalee.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I made a joke so I'm drunk and unnecessary? What does unnecessary in this context even mean? Keep acting like my rank matters, because I have played all of maybe 5 ranked games in the past 2 months, but by all means float your boat. You can call me bad but at least I can beat Nidalee.

I don't like bad jokes sorry.

Meanwhile I didn't want nerf to Nidalee.Did you read my post?

I'm saying Riot's balance policy.

YumScrumptious96Jul 20, 20164 votes

It wasn't a comedic joke, it was one at your expense. I assume you didn't understand it as you tried to reply in the same sense before, but messed it up.

EDIT: Good job ignoring how I countered everything you said, so you choose to just make an attempt at an insult instead of actually making an argument for yourself.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't a comedic joke, it was one at your expense. I assume you didn't understand it as you tried to reply in the same sense before, but messed it up.

Wooow wonderful joke.Your words are ordinary.

YumScrumptious96Jul 20, 20164 votes

Keep doing your whole attempt at making comebacks instead of defending your argument, only makes me look better.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 20, 20161 votes

[deleted]

YumScrumptious96Jul 20, 20164 votes

If you want to be a child, go to a candy store, boards are for people with actual ideas and valid opinions that help the game, not make its fanbase look worse.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you want to be a child, go to a candy store, boards are for people with actual ideas and valid opinions that help the game, not make its fanbase look worse.

If you want to be drunk, go to a pub.

''boards are for people with actual ideas and valid opinions that help the game, not make its fanbase look worse.''

Yes my idea is this.Why are you crying?

Boards is for opinion but not for your disgusting joke.

YumScrumptious96Jul 20, 20165 votes

The fact that you can only focus on the joke, and not on how you didn't defend your argument when I countered your points shows that your idea was not that. I'm not crying, you seem to think that's your only way out. My joke was not disgusting, it was a simple jest utilizing the slogan of a alcoholic beverage, Dos Equis, which I changed to "Dos Lanzas" or two spears as you seem to hate Nidalee. I've never been drunk in my life, nor do I want to, nor do we call it a "pub" where I am from. All of your comments show you have no argument left, just a desperate need to be right, possibly your narcissistic, which is terrible for those around. I think you may be trying to save face here, but you honestly lost it the moment you gave up on your complaint on Nidalee, focused on my joke, and twisted it out of proportion.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The fact that you can only focus on the joke, and not on how you didn't defend your argument when I countered your points shows that your idea was not that. I'm not crying, you seem to think that's your only way out. My joke was not disgusting, it was a simple jest utilizing the slogan of a alcoholic beverage, Dos Equis, which I changed to "Dos Lanzas" or two spears as you seem to hate Nidalee. I've never been drunk in my life, nor do I want to, nor do we call it a "pub" where I am from. All of your comments show you have no argument left, just a desperate need to be right, possibly your narcissistic, which is terrible for those around. I think you may be trying to save face here, but you honestly lost it the moment you gave up on your complaint on Nidalee, focused on my joke, and twisted it out of proportion.

Why I defend my argument?

You must defend your bad joke.

My idea is normal but your joke is dirty.

RalanrJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you want to be a child, go to a candy store, boards are for people with actual ideas and valid opinions that help the game, not make its fanbase look worse.

If only.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't a comedic joke, it was one at your expense. I assume you didn't understand it as you tried to reply in the same sense before, but messed it up.

EDIT: Good job ignoring how I countered everything you said, so you choose to just make an attempt at an insult instead of actually making an argument for yourself.

I made wonderful comment against your rude joke.

Angry MonsterJul 20, 20162 votes

NID has always been good in the jungle? Really? Please tell me of season 2 and 3(maybe 4 ) jungle nid. Might want to be careful the word always.

Support BοtJul 20, 20162 votes

WW has great lane phase. With proper runes (30% as, armor) and his Q, he is just hellish on lane. But in jungle he is just better due to ganks after 6.

Nidalee... Well. She may be feed, but this is no real changes. Compare fed Yi with fed Nidalee. Yi has 100% chance to kill squishy, while nidalee.... She just need help. Nida is overnerfed. She was nerfed every single patch after her rework through 2 months... This is sick. She is just a shadow of nidalee from prerework state. Everything because of the idea to make her a jungler. Pathetic.

YumaS2AstralJul 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nidalee Tank,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8XXrEguT,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-07-20T09:41:27.508+0000)

WW has great lane phase. With proper runes (30% as, armor) and his Q, he is just hellish on lane. But in jungle he is just better due to ganks after 6.

Nidalee... Well. She may be feed, but this is no real changes. Compare fed Yi with fed Nidalee. Yi has 100% chance to kill squishy, while nidalee.... She just need help. Nida is overnerfed. She was nerfed every single patch after her rework through 2 months... This is sick. She is just a shadow of nidalee from prerework state. Everything because of the idea to make her a jungler. Pathetic.

The reason why WW is better on jungle is because he can have access to blue buff. In lane he has severe mana issues (just like old Poppy). To the point that some people start Doran's Ring even if they don't plan to build AP at all.

Sire HippingtonJul 20, 20161 votes

tbh, i don't see much that hints at nidalee geting viable in lane again. Prettymuch all changes that happend since she was allowed to hunt monsters were horrible for lane-nidalee.

Her lane is left in the dust just as that of yi, shy or ww.

The DeckownerJul 20, 20161 votes

favourism.

The Yetii RiderJul 20, 20161 votes

Warwick's full VGU may involve him getting some buffs to his laning.

Master Yi, in general, will never be a strong laner, because one of his skills has a 35 second CD. (Only champ that comes close is Ashe, and Ashe is one of the few marksmen that cannot solo lane for this reason).

The only change Riot could make to make Yi a better laner would be to make Meditate have a shorter CD, which would be a huge buff to his jungling. So...nah.

It's okay to have champions that have strong ganking tools in exchange for poor lane tools. If a champion is designed to be played everywhere, they probably will suck in the jungle. (Rek'Sai, Elise, release Kindred, Rengar and Kha'Zix were all DESIGNED to be junglers and thus were extremely oppressive compared to laners who can jungle like Pantheon or Jax).

Wolfram OxfordJul 20, 20161 votes

Nidalee was a laner for a long time, it was just s5 I think, that they made her a good jungler because she had no place in lane. Pretty much everyone counters her when she goes AP, she is weak early, with spear nerfs her late game sucks... I think putting her in the jungle was a decent idea. It gave her a home where she was viable in, but ended up being really hard to balance. To be honest though, she does need some changes. They made changes along time ago that hit her poke power and made her an assassin. Well, heals and traps don't really fit the style of an assassin. Her traps are useless for one, and her heals don't synergize with anything but taking towers and getting sheen procs while in human form.

QuephaJul 20, 20161 votes

Nidalee is a terrible laner and is almost never picked for a lane that isn't jungle... I don't think the changes are trying to make her a viable laner, just a less dominant jungler.

Blue Moon WolfJul 20, 20161 votes

To be fair, they probably just started on Warwick 's rework, so they might try and make him more effective in other lanes and MasterYi is pretty decent top lane and as a jungler (just not as much with the item 3124 change and Devourer removal). Though your not wrong about the "forcing certain champs to play a certain role" thing, just look at Skarner and Mordekaiser (post juggernaut update) .

warpenguin555Jul 20, 20161 votes

warwicks getting a rework so it would be kind pointless, no idea when it comes to yi

SpecterVonBarenJul 20, 20161 votes

WW has always been a jungler champ so it makes sense to balance him for that position.

Yi can't be allowed to be a meta laner because his weakness is that he needs time to scale so if it was meta for him to be in a lane then not only would he be scaling WAY faster with consistent minion gold but he'd also have the potential to snowball hard off of a laner that's weak to him. Note that I said, META laner. He's perfectly capable of going top lane against the right champs but his primary position is still the jungle.

AwesomeChadJul 20, 20161 votes

favoritism. Yorrick has been out of the game for a long time now yet 0 buffs and changes done to him. Its ridiculous.

Serpents EmbraceJul 20, 20161 votes

"Always was" is a bit of a lie. Nidalee has been almost every position at one point or another throughout the seasons. She's just been festering in jungle for a long time now. She was initially Support or Mid, then pushed to be AD top for a while.

Which is probably part of the reason she's being pushed back towards lanes, whereas Yi and WW have always been pushed more in to jungle and their "problem" cases were things like AP Yi mid or WW top. Knowing where Nidalee is during a given time is a pretty powerful tool against her, but from the jungle her mobility plays a lot more prominent role and appears much earlier than Yi, WW or Shyv.

deadlychuckJul 21, 20161 votes

I stopped trying to understand riot's logic on what roles champions should play.

They reworked Malzahar from being a consistent lane champion, into being an insanely OP jungle champion, a role which in the past he could sometimes pass as depending on the state of the jungle. Yet almost removing any real consistency or reliability in lane.