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As I'm watching Boxer Pete play Tryndamere, it occurs to me...

HateDaddy··50 votes·9,617 views

Tryndamere is fucking busted. I know I know, it's been complained about for awhile now and I agree, he absolutely is a huge problem at the moment and the only reason nothing gets done is because he has a small player base and will be reworked. But I actually don't think his RNG makes him dumb. I think it's his ult and sustain.

Seriously, who really beats a well played Trynd in lane? Jax is supposed to be a counter but a well played Trynd wins this lane pretty hard. Nasus? Lol, maybe 3 years ago when armor on bruisers actually meant something. Ranged? He maxs Q and sustains hard enough to get his items and post 6, very few ranged champions can deal with his all-in once he gets his big ticket first item. On top of all that, he doesn't have mana and has relatively low cooldowns. And for the cooldowns that are high, he builds CDR pretty commonly because Riot went Oprah on CDR and gave it to everyone.

To be clear, Trynd isn't super great in teamfights but he's not bad either. His existence commands zone control. With full fury, he can legit two shot squishies late game, especially during his ultimate when he gets a massive steroid from his Q. And frankly, he isn't weak early and why in gods name is it okay for all these "late game champions" to be so good early? Trynd is largely a solo queue stomper but that doesn't justify his current state. Absence of live communication, it's actually really hard to deal with Trynd even in the highest of elos.

Trynd needs nerfs. And when you do his rework, let him keep his ultimate but actually give the opponent opportunity to interact with it by forcing his ult to go off upon taking Lethal damage. I don't care if that means late game buffs to it, it makes his laning so oppressive.

83 Comments

Wildstyle31 votes

Tryndamere does not need a nerf, but he does need a rework.

HateDaddy10 votes

{quoted}

Tryndamere does not need a nerf, but he does need a rework.

He needs toned down for sure

Milchmann Dx11 votes

It is always the same with you people here. Don't like a champion? Quick, grab your torches and rant on the forums until riot finally gives in.

If you watch Boxerpete, you will realize how often he gets asked what counters Tryndamere. The answer is always the same. People with a brain.

Tryn is super easy to outplay if you know what you are doing. Granted not every single champion there is, is capable of doing so but the majority of toplaners are. Burst him fast to force his ult and then cc him and kite. Thats all there is to it. And since he is always building full glass, it is super easy to burst him.

And you can't compare Azir to Tryndamere. Azir destroyed LCS. Tryn was never seen in LCS because as soon as teams start playing together Tryn will fail.

Tryn is also not a lategame champion vs good teams. Because when the enemy AD carry has his lategame equipment, he is also gonna two-shot Tryndamere, forcing him to immediately use his ultimate. Some CC, like one nami bubble and an exhaust is enough that Tryn will not land a single autohit during his 5 sec ult duration. I've seen that happen so many times when i watch challenger games with Tryn in it.

Many people get to challenger with different champions. By your logic that would imply that all these champions that are played in challenger need a nerf. And Boxerpete does it because of his superior game knowledge not because Tryndamere is somehow overpowered. Tryn is more in a need of a buff than a nerf, to be able to compete with other LCS picks.

Like with every champion there is. If you can't beat them, play them. You will find their weakspots. That is the easiest way.

There is also a reason Tryn gets so many skins. Because he is quite popular. Many people like him the way he is now and there is definitly no reason for a rework.

Sraeg20134 votes

People with a brain.

It's official. Tryndamere has no counters.

On a more serious note it means that one player (the one that actually has any kind of a clue) has to tend to Tryndamere pretty much 24/7, if you want to have your base largely intact.

It still forces a 4v4 which more often than not favours Tryndamere's team, as you have to send a champion strong enough to burst him and CC afterwards, even if Tryndamere is 0/20 (people like to brag how Yasuo can go 0/10 in lane and end the game 15/10, but Trynda can literally never get a kill or even an assist and still end up the biggest threat).

Failing to do so or even being 5 seconds too late will equal to lost towers and/or inhibitors.

It's great he isn't popular, but that doesn't excuse what kind of a champion he is.

Falcon Of Death25 votes

he needs to be nerfed until he's reworked, like azir

not left to be cancer until he's reworked (TM)

An Undead brat3 votes

Tfw you made a post saying literally this but get downvoted :')

AirKingNeo7 votes

Because he's not a strong champion to need nerfs nor is he gamebreaking and overpowered enough to need to complete gutting.

Falcon Of Death1 votes

he is borderline gamebreakingly dumb in solo queue if he was half as strong in pro play he'd be in the dumpster by now

Quepha12 votes

I bet Boxerpete and Fogged could get the same kind of success playing Jax, Fiora, or Riven with the exact same strategies they use on Tryndamere if they cared to learn any champion that isn't named Tryndamere.

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

I bet Boxerpete and Fogged could get the same kind of success playing Jax, Fiora, or Riven with the exact same strategies they use on Tryndamere if they cared to learn any champion that isn't named Tryndamere.

I never implied they couldn't

Quepha11 votes

If there are a lot of champions who can see just as much success as Tryndamere, then it kind of implies that Tryndamere isn't actually very overpowered.

I don't think Tryndamere is that strong, I think he's just a magnet for a very effective strategy. He's so strongly associated with split pushing that people think only he can split push and the success of split pushing is something unique to him, when really it's just players who found a very effective strategy and pick champions who are good at that strategy, Tryndamere being one of them and Tryndamere being a champion who attracts no other kind of player.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

If there are a lot of champions who can see just as much success as Tryndamere, then it kind of implies that Tryndamere isn't actually very overpowered.

I don't think Tryndamere is that strong, I think he's just a magnet for a very effective strategy. He's so strongly associated with split pushing that people think only he can split push and the success of split pushing is something unique to him, when really it's just players who found a very effective strategy and pick champions who are good at that strategy, Tryndamere being one of them and Tryndamere being a champion who attracts no other kind of player.

Whether that's true or not, Tryndamere is capable of teamfighting fairly decently. That's something several split pushers can't say.

6KEMBE4ORBA5 votes

Fiora is a better tf and an equal splitpusher, same with Jax, Rene same cause of hydra. Don't know what are you talking about.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Fiora is a better tf and an equal splitpusher, same with Jax, Rene same cause of hydra. Don't know what are you talking about.

Renekton falls off lol. And comparing anything to Fiora is like saying "I'm the nicest person in prison."

6KEMBE4ORBA1 votes

Falls off currently just like Panth in a ~20 min game? :D

Btw, what about Riven's current state with DD build + Stormrider - I guess she is also weaker than Trynd? What about Kenen?

I find it really hilarious to complain about Trynd in particular with the current state of the game.

Bârd9 votes

Just because a challenger one trick can make a champion work in solo queue doesn't mean they are OP.

He's remarkably easy to counter.

As long as you are playing at least as well as the Tryndamere, the list of champions who can reliably beat Trynd in lane includes:

Camille Darius Ekko Galio Gnar Gragas Heimerdinger Irelia JarvanIV Jax Jayce Kayle Kennen Kled Lulu Pantheon Poppy Quinn Renekton Riven Rumble Shaco Shen Singed Sion Swain TahmKench Teemo Trundle Yorick

The list of champions who can reliably not lose lane:

Aatrox Akali Chogath DrMundo Malphite Maokai Nasus Nautilus Nunu Vayne

The list of champions who likely won't lane against Tryndamere, but who are good against him:

Alistar Ashe Bard Braum Ivern Janna Kalista Karma Morgana Nami Rammus Sejuani Skarner Taric Thresh Varus Veigar Warwick Zac Zilean

Oh, and the following also cause him problems:

summoner 21 summoner 3 summoner 14 summoner 7 item 3190 item 3033 item 3165 item 3143 item 3110 item 3050 item 3075 item 3116 item 3022 item 3140 item 3157 item 3800

HateDaddy3 votes

[deleted]

Bârd11 votes

Nope.

Camille passive lets her win every trade against Trynd, her E lets her choose her fights, and her ult makes it impossible for Trynd to reach her ranged allies. Darius interrupts his spin disengage with grab, extending trades longer than Trynd wants. His bleed does more than Trynd can heal, meaning that it will often secure him a kill on Trynd after his ult wears off. Ekko can trade very well with Trynd, can kite him, and can disable him for a large portion of his ult. Galio has enough CC and protective potential that Trynd isn't gonna be killing anybody. He also has tons of damage early, so Trynd doesn't exactly want to fight the guy. Gnar runs away when Trynd tries to engage, using Hyper and Hop to keep a distance while boomerangs slow him down. Mega form gives him some decent sustain as well. Gragas lots of damage, sustain for days, and disengage for when things get hairy. Heimerdinger If Trynd tries to engage, stun and walk away. The passive speed is great here. Irelia if he goes in, stun him, get a good trade, and back off. Your W (and if needed, your ult) lets you sustain. JarvanIV Poke with Q and trade with your passive. If he tries to engage on you, shield yourself and clip him with the flag and drag on your way out. Trynd often runs ignite instead of TP, so forcing him to back is devastating. Jax E when he walks up to you to trade, and then Q onto him if he spins out. You have dodge (E) and tons of armor (R) so he can't really fight you. He can try to run away, but leap strike can follow him when he spins. Jayce Poke the shit out of him. If he tries to go in, smack him away and continue poking. Trynd needs to hit things to get meaningful sustain, but if he's too low to safely hit things, he CAN'T sustain. Kayle Poke him. Slow him when he goes in. Put a second point into your heal at some point if you find yourself getting out sustained. Kennen Poke, farm, and disengage with a rotation of your basic abilities whenever he goes in on you. Kled Kled can fight Trynd pre-6 if you chose your fights wisely. By no means a free lane, but one you can absolutely win. Get Tabi and BEAT THE EVERLOVING SHIT OUT OF THAT FLERGERSCHTERPEDER, but do so carefully. Your passive makes you pretty hard to towerdive, so he can't just run up to you and kill you under it. Lulu Kinda hard to kill somebody if you are a squirrel. Oh, and she also has slows, a shield, and a massive HP boost. She has some kill potential on Trynd, but Trynd has very little on her. Pantheon a hard counter. Be mindful of your mana, but that's pretty much it. Poppy SO. FUCKING. TANKY. Quinn Your W passive and Vault make it easy to kite Trynd, and nearsight is pure evil. You can also shut down all of his split pushes with your ult, so that's nice. Renekton just wins the lane by killing Trynd multiple times pre-6, effectively negating Tryndamere. Hell, he can still do it post-6. Riven It's Riven. Riven can win every lane if you outplay your opponent. Trynd isn't her easiest lane, but neither is he the hardest. Rumble chips him down with flamespitter. If he tries to engage, scrap shield and double-tazer to run away. Shaco in top lane is all about baiting people into cleverly placed traps. Who better to do that against than a guy who recklessly goes in constantly? Also, twoshiv is very effective on Trynd coming out of ult, and Shaco almost always runs ignite anyways. Shen builds tanky, does decent damage, has an escape, and has that W. Singed wins the lane without even fighting you. Sion look up "tilterella". AD Sion can fuck up Tryndamere so badly that he will never get rolling. Swain Nobody wants to brawl a Swain. That's just not a good idea. Dude's lane dominant, does damage all game, and is tanky. TahmKench this guy is a pain. Whittling him down is slow thanks to Thick Skin, while all inning him is suicide. Teemo blinds are blinds. Trundle he can fight Tryndamere decently, and the MS discrepence with his W and E lets him kite out Trynd ult. Yorick If Trynd walks onto you, place a W in front of you and walk into it. If he spins on you, W around yourself and walk out of it. Sustain with Q, chip him down with E and ghouls.

That's enough typing for one post. YOU figure out the rest of them.

statelesskiller2 votes

like most of your points here are easily countered by "it doesnt matter if he crits you 4 times in a row lvl one cause he started E and spun on you"

Spicy Rice9 votes

3/10 x 3/10 x 3/10 x 3/10 = 81/10000 for that to happen

ShirukuSama1 votes

"If Trynd walks onto you, place a W in front of you and walk into it. If he spins on you, W around yourself and walk out of it. Sustain with Q, chip him down with E and ghouls."

You clearly have no clue, how hard Trynd destroys Yorick. Just pls remain silent, if you dont know something.

Bârd1 votes

If he walks to you to start a trade, placing W in front of you forces him to spin into it to continue the trade, after which you can just continue walking to disengage.

If he spins onto you, you place W around him and walk out. He can't follow without flashing.

He wants to go for short trades, and Yorick can do those just as well as Trynd. You have the benefit of not needing to commit to trades, since you can send your ghouls to fuck him up if you are good at landing E. With the help of DShield or Corrupting pot, your Q is enough to sustain you.

Just play defensively and don't give him any mistakes to capitalize on.

AirKingNeo5 votes

Quality counterargument. Now, since you're so full of shit yourself saying Tryndamere is a good champion, PLEASE DO PROVE IT AGAINST THIS ARGUMENT.

The punchline is you can't because Tryndamere isn't strong.

Professor Ward1 votes

{quoted}

Just because a challenger one trick can make a champion work in solo queue doesn't mean they are OP.

He's remarkably easy to counter.

As long as you are playing at least as well as the Tryndamere, the list of champions who can reliably beat Trynd in lane includes:

Camille Darius Ekko Galio Gnar Gragas Heimerdinger Irelia JarvanIV Jax Jayce Kayle Kennen Kled Lulu Pantheon Poppy Quinn Renekton Riven Rumble Shaco Shen Singed Sion Swain TahmKench Teemo Trundle Yorick

The list of champions who can reliably not lose lane:

Aatrox Akali Chogath DrMundo Malphite Maokai Nasus Nautilus Nunu Vayne

The list of champions who likely won't lane against Tryndamere, but who are good against him:

Alistar Ashe Bard Braum Ivern Janna Kalista Karma Morgana Nami Rammus Sejuani Skarner Taric Thresh Varus Veigar Warwick Zac Zilean

Oh, and the following also cause him problems:

summoner 21 summoner 3 summoner 14 summoner 7 item 3190 item 3033 item 3165 item 3143 item 3110 item 3050 item 3075 item 3116 item 3022 item 3140 item 3157 item 3800

trynds power has never been in lane, its in the splitpush....

Bârd3 votes

Deal with a Trynd split push the same way you'd deal with any other split push.

  • Gank him
  • Hard push other lanes
  • Engage on his team for a 5v4 fight
  • Send somebody to ddo "Trynd Duty" and hold the lane

Quinn Shen Singed are the best candidates for Trynd duty, but anyone with TP who can hold off Trynd is fine.

Professor Ward1 votes

{quoted}

Deal with a Trynd split push the same way you'd deal with any other split push.

  • Gank him
  • Hard push other lanes
  • Engage on his team for a 5v4 fight
  • Send somebody to ddo "Trynd Duty" and hold the lane

Quinn Shen Singed are the best candidates for Trynd duty, but anyone with TP who can hold off Trynd is fine.

I'm guessing youre not silver? where trynd takes off.

Bârd1 votes

Indeed, I am not silver.

Trynd is a pubstomper, and learning to beat pubstomp champions is necessary to climb.

Big Lincoln8 votes

great post dad

time to weaken all hypercarries

Critkeeper2 votes

There is no small change that can be made to Tryndamere to make him slightly better for the game. Any small change would either reduce his effectiveness or increase his effectiveness-- there are no small sideways changes to move him into a different pattern or set of small changes to discourage some patterns and enable others.

This is because he only has one single pattern, and all his cards are banked on that one single bet. The only answer to this issue is to rework Tryndamere so that he has more options. A simple nerf will only serve to make him effectively cease to exist.

PapaSeavs2 votes

Keep in mind you’re watching arguably the best trynd player in the world save maybe for 1 or 2 koreans. It can make it seem way stronger than he is. I would say play a game with trynd and see how much game knowledge you need to pull off a win against nasus, or a ranged champ. You can do it but it boils down to knowing precisely what to do and what mistake to see.

UnboundHades1 votes

[deleted]

J4 Ulted Mexico2 votes

Hm, insightful, I haven't thought of it like that ...

UnboundHades6 votes

trynd is an incredibly weak champ and only low gold-bronze finds him overpowered if anything he just needs to not be a brain dead split push champ by changing his kit

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

trynd is an incredibly weak champ and only low gold-bronze finds him overpowered if anything he just needs to not be a brain dead split push champ by changing his kit

You're gold 2, there's hardly s difference between low gold and gold 2 lol

UnboundHades4 votes

in season 5 when i hit level 30 i went into ranked and got bronze 3 i didnt touch it in seasons 6 and i only do normals. the average rank of the people i play with in normals is low plat to high diamond with a few challenger players mixed in. when i decided to do ranked placements 1 month ago i went 7/3 playing xerath losing due to the enemy adcs getting fed to where i couldnt do anything i got placed in bronze 5 because of how placements doesnt let you get to your last rank or higher and i decided to climb to mid gold for the border and ive stopped playing ranked due to the amount of players in mid gold that are worse than bronze. so i do know what im talking about here

statelesskiller1 votes

just because you are playing with high plat and low diamonds doesn't mean you are playing at there level, there is the other side of it where THEY are playing so bad that they are at your level, many reasons, tilting spree, boosting, other things.

the fact you are so defensive and aggressive with trying to prove you are better then what you say is a sign of insecurity

lemme tell you something, there is no excuse that you can say that anyone on this board hasnt seen before, dont try, at all. ever

AirKingNeo3 votes

His MMR is literally plat-diamond. That makes him a good player.

statelesskiller1 votes

is he at plat diamond . . . or the plats and diamonds at gold?

iDemacia1 votes

His MMR shows Gold 2 for me.

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=UnboundHades

Where are you looking at?

Edit: Does op.gg only show ranked?

Did find this place that shows a plat 3 mmr

https://www.lol-mmr.com/profilev2.php?summoner=UnboundHades&region=na

Limrick2 votes

Is that why there's a challenger Tryn one-trick who even got to the top 10 last season?

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Is that why there's a challenger Tryn one-trick who even got to the top 10 last season?

I mean, that's not saying anything other than it's possible to one-trick Trynd to challenger. You can do that with virtually any champion. However, it's hard to argue that he'd only a low elo stomper when theres clear evidence that's not true.

Paxon4 votes

so Tryn is a highelo stomper then? No? If not then he is merely able to be played at a higher elo? Is that a problem?

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I think your cat stepped on your ?/ key while simultaneously stepping on shift

Shuyin1781 votes

His sustain and crit stuff are all fine, it's the ult that's a major issue. Normally "Power Budget" is something Riot talks about with champions, but whoever designed and launched Trynd forgot that concept because his ult is one of the strongest things in the game while he remains a strong sustain-damage champion through his crits.

DunkinNoobs7 votes

{quoted}

His sustain and crit stuff are all fine, it's the ult that's a major issue. Normally "Power Budget" is something Riot talks about with champions, but whoever designed and launched Trynd forgot that concept because his ult is one of the strongest things in the game while he remains a strong sustain-damage champion through his crits.

I mean, if he didn't do damage, what would be the point? Congrats, you got to be useless for an extra 5 seconds.

MLDzXnRRR7 votes

Trynda was viable for last time in season 3. He isn't picked in LCS for 4 years or more.

Shuyin1784 votes

That's because he isn't a teamplay champion, he's a solo champion. If you look at the champions normally used in the LCS you'll see they can world together, while Trynd can't.

sobi9991 votes

Its always late game champs that bring issues to this game.

Danjeng2 votes

Pantheon

sobi9991 votes

He brings issues because of how brain dead of a champ he is. He is still much more tolerable than yasuo, fiora and etc.

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