to not see that assassins having 150 mr while assassinating targets is a problem?? i'm just curious you know, cause on top of killing you in 2 sec (which is fair) i wonder how can one give them QSS+edge of the night+mercury tenacity+150 mr
wp son wp
MissingKayo11 votesIt'd be nice if Assassins didn't need all sorts of ridiculous overloaded itemization to even have a hope for dealing with all the possible things that stop them. Including but not limited to: Exhaust, shielding items and abilities, healing items and abilities, CC, and others bursting them faster than they themselves can to their target.
And if they could kill someone without risking dying even faster than they can kill the enemy unless they kill the target in half a second or their target healing back all their damage unless they get killed in half a second, that would be good too.
If they don't kill mages/ADCs in the blink of an eye with how stupid damage is for everyone, the mage will CC and kill them in a second while the ADC will just lifesteal back almost their entire health bar and crit or Lethality burst the assassin to death.
Ahristocats13 votespowercreep
powercreep everywhere
where are you morello to stop that
BakedLotion2 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TQ0BKQE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-02-20T17:53:32.378+0000)
powercreep
powercreep everywhere
where are you morello to stop that
morello is silver. He knows less about the game than 90% of the players
500000000000000013 votesBakedLotion3 votes
- Silver is average of player base
- You can suck at your own game but still know a lot about it
and why choose a silver over someone that's actually good at the game? I'm pretty sure morello doesn't know as much as any challenger
dEAdbUs2 votesThe problem is morello is designer not balance specialist. They have diamond+ testers for balance. However bad design leads to balance problems, because some design ideas can't be balanced by changing numbers.
Saianna5 votesIt'd be nice if Assassins didn't need all sorts of ridiculous overloaded itemization
We call Assassins a problem, yet they still get beated to pulp in 1v1 scenario by any mediocre ADCs (Zed not included).
On top of those "assassin items" works better on certain ADCs than for assassins.
Overall powercreep and obvious favourizing for AD itemization make this game into CoD 2.0. Dumbed down, ugly and with angry kids.
MysterQ1 votesWhy can't assassin's be expected to play around those without items. It shouldn't be easy risk big reward. I don't play much, but I was not sure what you were trying to say.
MissingKayo1 votesBecause without those equally bullshit items against the bullshit levels of things they have to go through, it'd be near impossible for them to ever do their job? There's a difference between difficulty and unviability. And it's not easy anyways.
Edge of Daybreak2 votesWhy can't assassin's be expected to play around those without items. It shouldn't be easy risk big reward. I don't play much, but I was not sure what you were trying to say.
It's impossible to play around point and click CC which a lot of mages have. Edge of night was riot's answer to that. Riot still has exhaust in game which is point and click and you cannot counter build or counterplay.
Smitemuffin1 votesWrong.
was completely overboard. Ever since Riot lowered base stats and added Thunderlord's Decree, lane assassins stopped needing 
to get kills and snowball. If CC was really a problem, they'd stop taking 
and get 
instead. But they don't, because 
is universally superior and has a fraction of the cooldown.
Smitemuffin3 votesOh, you mean all the things that other damage champs have to manage without any of the overpowered spells?
has 3 dashes, sustain, a slow/interrupt and a speed steroid
has 3-8 dashes, sustain, an even bigger speed steroid and refreshing invisibility
has 2 dashes (or more if she's patient) and an AoE knockup
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...biggest shield and biggest heal in the game second only to Zilean, AoE slow, dashes, AoE stun, second biggest shield in the game next to Tahm, instant teleport
ranged stun and one of the most bullshit escapes in the game because she can cast it from human form virtually instantly
breaks games every time she's viable, which speaks for itself
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...she also speaks for herself
has a blink with longer range than flash on a base 2 second cooldown plus a shield, slow, interrupt and can restore a third of his missing mana on a base 7 second cooldown. With 
he can blink every 1.2, restore 4 and sustain it almost indefinitely
assassins should never ever be all AoE damage, nevermind her blinking every .32 seconds (real figure) with up to 287 +1.0 bonus AD and AP
ban it. Ban it with fire
slow, snare, 2 dashes, 2 blinks, ridiculous clone
this champ has been S tier at least part of every season since release. He's so broken that it's also been a running joke since release and he even has his own song about it by The Yordles
since her change to an assassin she's had the same problem as Eve
ban it. Ban it with any fire you have left from the bug
also so broken that it's a running joke. If someone can't dominate with 4 spammable dashes, a shield, an AoE stun, an AoE knockup, no mana and an AoE execute, then their fundamentals are just bad
honestly terrible most of the time, because his kit design pretty much always ruins the game for one team or the other. What Riot did to this fellow should upset most wholesome churchgoing people
assassins should never be doing sustained DPS
soon to be overtaking Lee Sin for the title of Mr. Uncatchable, with a dash, invisibility and obscene AoE damage to boot
assassins should never have stuns or sustained DPS, let alone the massive amounts of true damage and sustain she can easily get
slowly marching down the same path as Shaco
fun fact: of all the mid laners in the game, only Varus has a longer poke range than this guy and only by 50 units. Also has 2 gap closers and can become untargetable
When it comes to raw potency of kits, as you can now plainly see, assassins simply have too much. Too much of everything. They're not even "outplay" champions, they're "have more" champions. Riot has erroneously defined their role as one without meaningful counterplay beyond "be somewhere else". Hell, thanks to Thunderlord's Decree, most of them don't even have to bother taking anymore. They can take and be even more oppressive thanks to their ultimates having generally lower cooldowns than other classes and many of them being manaless
MissingKayo2 votesSo much text for so little intelligence… How?
Nechronia1 votes
Uhh
Wolfram Oxford4 votesIs this even relevant when mages can get loads of HP, even shields 
, and an item that completely counters assassins?
Ahristocats3 votesHm, yes it is relevant indeed
Zhonya is only strong against assassins like zed where you can dodge some of their delayed spells, it's something defensive that let you play the game if you're behind and cannot be cast while being cc'ed
QSS and edge of the night are not only defensive items, they are defensive items that can be used offensively and when you combine them +a lot of mr it becomes a bit unbalanced
it would have been balanced if it didn't give assassins a shit ton of damage too because mages building zhonya won't kill you trust me
this item existes? didn't know that i don't even see ryze building it anymore he goes straight up to ROA and morello
Targon13 votesIt takes quite a long time to stack 
to transform into , so the active on this item only really becomes available mid-late game (if the game even goes on that long).
Also, that item isn't even that viable on most champions. The only champions that can are 
and maybe .
In terms of HP/AP items:
is a very strong item but again takes a long time to ramp up and isn't cost-efficient for champions that don't use mana or don't need large mana pools.
was nerfed a few months ago to give less health and less of a slow.
is good in the early/mid game but is only really viable on champions like Diana, Ekko, and Annie so that they can get in range to burst someone down.
is rarely built. Feels like an item you'd buy if you don't want to wait for Rod of Ages to stack.
is a pretty good item but is best on DOT mages.
I think that's all of the AP/HP items. There's many options available, but most AP champions do not generally build more than one or two of them.
ahferroin71 votesFWIW:
Can be really good on tanks (arguably better than mages) who just need more CC and better sustain.
Is just as good on AoE focused mages as DoT mages, but is best on mages who have lots of CC.
Smitemuffin1 votesThey're also pretty irrelevant in terms of durability because mages who buy those items have garbage base stats. Buying only usually gets you to be about as durable as an assassin with 
Thefrostyviking1 votes[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TQ0BKQE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-20T17:19:24.013+0000)
Is this even relevant when mages can get loads of HP, even shields
Items that only two or three out of 30 can actually use at all and most don't. Only mage that i know of that always builds tear without exception is cassiopeia.
And zhonya counters assassins? Sure if you are sitting in the middle of your team and they are diving you alone. If instead you are doing a 1v1 fight or a skirmish where your team are busy fighting the enemy team then you are screwed.
Go figure why Korea play's 4 lethality champs + support comps.
bbQsauçe3 votes[deleted]
Ahristocats8 votesxd
i'm a mage main? with 0 mage played?
bbQsauçe1 votes[deleted]
Ahristocats10 votesand i don't main tf, what a surprise
so tell me, if i don't main tf how exactly can i be biased?
hint: i'm not cause i realised thanks to that how lethality is breaking the game while before i was telling mage mains to shut the fuck up about lethality riot fucked up the game so hard, it's unplayable you can't play anything but lethality champs and some other exceptions
NineTailedMystic2 votesWe don't have good survivability options, bar two.
ahferroin72 votesCongrats, AD have shields 
and items that counter mages just as hard as Zhonya's counters assassins 
. Oh look, they have more options on both fronts, and they're easier (on average) to get too!
It's also easier to get armor pen than magic pen on generically useful items.
Furthermore, HP is inferior to damage resistances once you get past early game because:
Assume some random champ has 550 HP and 30 resistance at level 1 (both of these are a bit on the high end, but it makes the math easier). This means that they can take a total of 550 * 1.30 = 715 damage before they die. If we add 150 HP (Ruby Crystal), that gives (550 + 150) * 1.30 = 910 damage. If we instead add 15 resistance, that gives 550 * (1.30 + 0.15) = 797 damage. So, for this champ, HP is more effective at level 1 than damage resistance.
Now, assume they have 2000 HP and 80 resistance at level 18 with no items (again, numbers chosen to make the math easier). This means that they can take a total of 2000 * 1.80 = 3600 damage before they die. If we add 800 HP (Warmogs), that gives (2000 + 800) * 1.80 = 5040 damage. If we instead add 100 resistance, that gives 2000 * (1.80 + 1.00) = 5600 damage. So, on the same champ, resistances are more effective at level 18 than HP.
Note that I've taken examples for level 18 from the highest HP item in the game (Warmogs), and the highest damage resist item in the game (Thornmail). Using more realistic values (~450 for HP and ~40 for resistances) gives much more noticeable differences.
The turnover point where resistances become more effective varies based on base values and scaling (runes and masteries can impact it too), but it's generally somewhere between 6 and 11 on most champs in most circumstances.
sobi9992 votesAp items really need more options rito, wake up plzzz. Before people moaned about mages bursting them down in seconds but now it's assassins bursting you down with having multiple spell shields/CC immunity/ lifesteal and a fkn decent MR + their insane mobility/stealth and escape mechanics. If that wasn't enough with lethality adc do more damage with just 2 AA than mages do with their well targeted/placed spell combo. Tanks are no longer viable so that leaves mages even more vulnerable as they lack sustain and mobility and have no peeling on the top.
Ahristocats7 votesAP items don't need anything if maybe a buff to rylai's utility/defense
AD items need a nerf
i don't want more powercreep
sobi9991 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TQ0BKQE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-02-20T18:46:57.516+0000)
AP items don't need anything if maybe a buff to rylai's utility/defense
AD items need a nerf
i don't want more powercreep
I never mentioned anything about AP items needing a buff as stated in my post "Ap items really need more options rito, wake up plzzz" since all mages are doing is stacking AP which gets boring after a while. Even i don't want mage meta but i am justifying that currently AD are more in the meta than mages hence why their items need looking into.
Linna Excel1 votesWhy can't blowing up the assassin be considered counterplay?
Ahristocats3 voteswhy can't cc the assassin that has QSS and EON and tenacity be a counterplay?
Mig891 votesIts counter play to their counter play ;)
dEAdbUs1 votesWhy are saying this right now? I mentioned this problem after hexdrinker/malmortius rework in season 5. Defensive item became both defensive and damage item.