Why is Irelia and Jax allowed to be hyper mobile juggernauts?

Neriticc·Dec 11, 2018·32 votes·11,242 views

They build the same two items as Darius, Yorick and Garen does. But Irelia and Jac have mobility while they don’t. Like wtf.

Juggernauts are meant to be immobile but we are Rito, Irelia and Jax are juggernauts that are unkitable, unkillable and they deal assassin damage.

I played against Irelia yesterday, 3 fucking times I died against her while she survived with like 60 HP all because of that bullshit W ability. I press W now I nullify 40% of your damage instantly. Lower the damage reduction again to 20% - 40%.

Stop giving stupid meaningless nerfs to these champions and give proper nerfs that can be felt.

48 Comments

vgamedudeDec 11, 201813 votes

Because range is so unbelievably busted in this game that that is the only way they are viable

GayFluffyUnicornDec 11, 20186 votes

^ People will never get this why bullshit like camille and irelia have to exist.

There is no downside to being ranged in this game. Some ranged champions even have the same or better base stats than melee champions early on.

Many ranged champions beat you at melee while being ranged.

So you need camille and irelia that are tanky, can gapclose across the map and burst you down on low cooldown so it's actually sustained burst dmg.

BestealDec 11, 20181 votes

Precisely. Without monsters like Jax and Camille, and more champs like Irelia and Yi, (and assassins) you have no way of fighting a long range, low risk, high damage, fast waveclear mage or ADC.

JamareeDec 11, 201810 votes

{quoted}

They build the same two items as Darius, Yorick and Garen does. But Irelia and Jac have mobility while they don’t. Like wtf.

Juggernauts are meant to be immobile but we are Rito, Irelia and Jax are juggernauts that are unkitable, unkillable and they deal assassin damage.

I played against Irelia yesterday, 3 fucking times I died against her while she survived with like 60 HP all because of that bullshit W ability. I press W now I nullify 40% of your damage instantly. Lower the damage reduction again to 20% - 40%.

Stop giving stupid meaningless nerfs to these champions and give proper nerfs that can be felt.

Irelia technically isn't a Juggernaut, she is a fighter/bruiser, but falls under Diver classification. Not saying she doesn't need nerfs, but she isn't a juggernaut.

Noor SakataDec 11, 201814 votes

She isn't but what's OP trying to say , she feels like One , Hella Tanky while doing damage on the top of that she has mobility .

JamareeDec 11, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2AckHpBY,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-11T08:39:26.584+0000)

She isn't but what's OP trying to say , she feels like One , Hella Tanky while doing damage on the top of that she has mobility .

She isn't all that tanky honestly either, she is able to do her damage so quickly with her burst that it seems like it, she only gets one more armor then Yi at 18 but has lower HP by nearly 100, on top of her damage reduction ability being 30% lower then his, she does get to keep hers even through CC though.

MadVikingDec 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Irelia technically isn't a Juggernaut, she is a fighter/bruiser, but falls under Diver classification. Not saying she doesn't need nerfs, but she isn't a juggernaut.

Isn't she a skirmisher because of her powerful defensive steroid? If she truly is a diver she shouldn't be as tanky as she is currently am I right?

JamareeDec 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Isn't she a skirmisher because of her powerful defensive steroid? If she truly is a diver she shouldn't be as tanky as she is currently am I right?

She is classified as a Diver.

MadVikingDec 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

She is classified as a Diver.

That's a major balance issue since divers aren't suppose to have the kind of survivability as Irelia has.

JamareeDec 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That's a major balance issue since divers aren't suppose to have the kind of survivability as Irelia has.

She doesn't really have survability, I mean her dance gives her damage reduction, but she can't move while using it. It is just that she is able to get her burst out so quickly she doesn't really have to worry about the tower.

e46 FanaticDec 11, 201810 votes

You're gonna complain about a single mobility spell on melee champ but not about the movement/attack speed ranged champs get for every item they build? plus the endless mobility and cc they have in their kits?

ChalzeDec 11, 20188 votes

Honestly a nerf on Jax's Q cooldown would be nice. I think +2 seconds on his current would actually be a pretty healthy nerf. From 10/9/8/7/6 to 12/11/10/9/8.

FSRERDec 11, 20182 votes

oh ok, why dont we also make his e on a 20 secs cd and his w hmm on a 10 seconds cd? how about that? oh and why dont we nerf his passive so he gets 1 more attack speed per hit? hmmm.

PLAY JAX THEN TALK.

At top jax is getting beat by every tank with the exception of maokai. Half fighters have high chances vs him (talking about irelia with her bs w and fiora also with that auto canceling parry) and not to talk about poking champs.

Romans VI XXIIIDec 11, 20185 votes

Good. Jax is SUPPOSED TO BE WEAK EARLY, since he is the strongest scaling champion in the game. Full item jax beats any other full item champion, and in alot of cases can 1v2+ with ease late game.

So yes jax will most likely lose lane vs an equally skilled opponent as his weakest time is early game, which honestly isnt that weak.

BestealDec 11, 20187 votes

Because they aren't juggernauts? And Jax isn't hyper mobile? And Irelia is conditionally mobile? And maybe don't jebait yourself into an Irelia W? Actual Juggernauts have massive bases. Irelia and Jax do not.

StraconyDec 11, 20185 votes

JAX HAS 1 JUMP. With a high CD.

How is he hyper mobile?

Cats Are FoodDec 11, 20181 votes

Base move speed is rather a factor. He is not exactly slow.

Romans VI XXIIIDec 11, 20181 votes

With a little bit of CD, which he always gets, that "high CD" turns into a very short one.

StraconyDec 13, 20181 votes

Which is not a problem with Jax, it's a problem with Itemisation. This is common sense.

Abuse meDec 11, 20184 votes

Jax is hyper mobile?

AjXtarDec 11, 20181 votes

His has like 4 seconds at max rank and with 20% cdr.

Abuse meDec 11, 20182 votes

with 40% on max rank. Sounds very hyper mobile considering you wont achieve these stats untill 13 minutes after the game ended.

Iota ThetaDec 11, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abuse me,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2AckHpBY,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-12-11T11:59:54.293+0000)

with 40% on max rank. Sounds very hyper mobile considering you wont achieve these stats untill 13 minutes after the game ended.

item 3078 item 3508 ?

Abuse meDec 11, 20183 votes

what elo can you build those two as first items on jax?

Iota ThetaDec 11, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abuse me,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2AckHpBY,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-11T14:25:28.369+0000)

what elo can you build those two as first items on jax?

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Jax/

Plat+, Trinity is his most picked and highest winrate first item, Essence Reaver is highest for both as well for second item outside of Trinty (if you take it first item), both of those possibly by 22 minutes.

reaper4042Dec 11, 20181 votes

usually goes trinity, if he wins lane then er, otherwise a defensive item then er

PlsBuffMyMainDec 11, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2AckHpBY,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-11T14:11:00.661+0000)

?

If he builds that he's not tanky then.

Iota ThetaDec 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If he builds that he's not tanky then.

I mean, if he builds that he still has room for 3 defensive items and boots. Little different than how a lot of juggernauts build with trinty/cleaver and Sterak’s, though Sterak’s is a mix of offense and defense (which Jax could still get alongside trinity, but that’s one less slot for a regular defensive).

Edit: forgot, he also has his armor/mr buff from his ult, which makes him tankier and procs ER’s passive and makes his CDs even lower for a short time.

AjXtarDec 11, 20181 votes

No. 4.6 seconds with just 20%. With 40% he is at 3.5 or so.

ŚhunpoDec 11, 20182 votes

item 3508

MasterLicoDec 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abuse me,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2AckHpBY,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-12-11T11:07:41.541+0000)

Jax is hyper mobile?

hes the third fastest champion in the game*[slayer-jinx-unamused]*

Abuse meDec 11, 20181 votes

then irelia is one of least mobile champions in the game.

Scorpio SznDec 11, 20184 votes

Saying Jax is hyper mobile is like saying Yi is mechanically challenging.

CHEWYARMSDec 11, 20184 votes

Gotta say, as a Yorick main its a lot of fun being out damaged by an Irelia with the same items as me. All while she dashes around with her mobility/ better scaling in team fights/ hard CC/ same if not better tankyness. Loads of fun.

But hey riot thinks its okay because I can take towers 1 second faster than she can lol. Same goes for jax for the most part.

Lets not forget that yoricks damage is very conditional and cant be used to 100% whenever he needs it, and all these other champions have access to their full kit at all times. So much fun.

BisaknospDec 11, 20183 votes

xd? jax is 10x more broken and irelia was nerfed pretty hard multiple times now i dont think she is much of a problem anymore the jax nerfs were a complete joke tho

FFrazienDec 11, 20182 votes

They should remove Jax ability to jump on wards with Q the same was they did to Katarina, so he can escape as easily if he fucks it up.

Pika FoxDec 11, 20181 votes

They removed it from kat because they gave her a way to reset it and create her own "wards".

JoseraphDec 11, 20182 votes

Jax is NOT hyper mobile. He has one dash, 6 second cooldown, not resettable in any way. You could say he's annoying, but comparing his mobility to Irelia is kinda silly

AS I LAY FEEDINGDec 11, 20182 votes

Well a Darius shits on irelia/jax in the laning phase

Pika FoxDec 11, 20182 votes

Because neither are juggernauts.

HeínekenDec 11, 20182 votes

How are they not? They build Tri>Hydra>Steraks>Tank/GA most of the time. They could go more damage, but it's unlikely. All those items have HP or a resistance or shield.

Pika FoxDec 11, 20182 votes

Who cares what they build, they arent juggernauts. Their base defenses are too low and they have too much non ult mobility. Theyre both subsets of fighters, not juggernauts. They build defensive because theyre melee.

ModCaliCoastReplayDec 12, 20182 votes

Garen happens to be a cheap, easy pickup as a counterpick into Irelia Jax in any lane.

Irelia can't bide her time with Garen like she depends on in the early game, choosing her all-ins and waiting on W and E cooldowns, because he'll just heal up to full on his passive if she does, while her own in-kit heals depend on hitting Q's. His own Q-silence also throws off her engage timing and can be used to trade effectively, while his W is also a damage reduction, which, unlike hers, can be used while moving.

As for Jax , like a lot of champions whose primary gimmick is damage, he struggles against Garen . He struggles even more than some because he is a melee autoattack-based champion who depends on getting and staying very close to his targets, and when he does that to Garen , Garen hits two buttons, gains a bunch of damage reduction, and then swings a sword around a bunch of times and clobbers him with it, reducing his own armor and making him very vulnerable.

Irelia Jax are also champions who succeed if they trick their opponents into leaning into their combos. They often don't succeed if their opponents don't take the bait. If Irelia doesn't hit her stuns and damage reduction, she has a very hard time getting kills and snowballing. If Jax doesn't get a few empowered counterstrikes, he's a lot less compelling. You can succeed against these champions better in any game simply by being less aggressive, refusing to play into their damage-reduction abilities, and kiting/dodging/canceling your autoattacks appropriately.

ExpStealerDec 11, 20181 votes

Neither of them are juggernauts. They're divers.

Irelia does feel like a juggy, though. Not gonna lie.

Chromatic EagleDec 11, 20181 votes

Why are*

20022012Dec 11, 20181 votes

A mobile juggernaut is an oxymoron. Jax is a bruiser, while Irelia is a diver. A juggernaut is someone who is bulky and does more damage than a tank while not having a lot of mobility.

KhabithDec 11, 20181 votes

I'm downvoting because you said garen doesn't have mobility