Wasn't Tristana considred trash tier like a week ago?

Clint Orris·Aug 15, 2017·106 votes·5,436 views

Wtf happened lmao.

121 Comments

InfernapeAug 15, 201777 votes

Everyone else got nerfed.

chipndip1Aug 15, 201711 votes

This. This is has been bot lane since forever now.

RavenhaleAug 15, 201737 votes

Why is Janna popular? Because Lulu and Karma got nerfed. >.<

chipndip1Aug 15, 201748 votes

Well...yes and no.

Karma has nothing to do with it. Lulu got nerfed, then coin got MASSIVELY BUFFED. People are pin-pointed at Censer, but I guarantee you that this won't change until coin's nerfed.

KennysDreamGirlAug 15, 20174 votes

i think ardent has more to do with janna being good along with things like lulu not being popular rn

chipndip1Aug 15, 201724 votes

Ardent was this way back before Janna's win rate shot up like a rocket. Wanna know what WASN'T?

COIN. Before the coin buffs, Janna was using STE, and Thresh was the strongest support on the rift. After the buffs, Janna shoots up, Sona shoots up, and Soraka shoots up. It isn't a coincidence.

ModKnightsKemplarAug 15, 201710 votes

Yeah, coin is the bigger deal. You right. It's just too much gold, straight up.

OneriosAug 16, 20171 votes

It's a bit of both. Ardent is the item that's giving all the power, but the gold acceleration from coin is letting her get to the point of buying ardent a lot faster then before. The rest of the popular adc pool also heavily synergise with what Janna and censer bring to the table, but can't really make a claim on direction of casualty there.

ModKnightsKemplarAug 16, 20172 votes

Sure we can.

You have to keep an eye on the stats as time develops, though. This patch alone doesn't have enough data to tell us anything, but chipndip1 is correct here; ardent was buffed long ago and Janna wasn't oppressive. She got oppressive with Coin changes. We can therefore conclude that the real problem is Coin.

That's not to say that Ardent Censer can't be a contributor. It certainly is, and it will help that it's getting nerfed, for sure. But we have multiple equations (patches) for multiple variables (ardent contribution to Janna's strength and coin contribution to Janna's strength). That's a solvable system is mathematics.

It's not EXACTLY math, of course, but since we can isolate the contribution of Ardent to Janna's win/play rates with the contribution of Coin on her win/play rates, we can absolutely draw some conclusions from that data. It's not a black box. Those were buffed on different patches, and thus we can see the contribution from both individually, if not separately.

It's not a hard or obvious conclusion, and certainly there is potential to screw up the interpretation of the data, but that's not the same as not being able to analyze the data.

HaIlMonitorAug 16, 20176 votes

Tank meta also. It's hard to use all your melee CC and engage on a champion that can stop dashes and push all of them away lol.

RacoonHunterAug 16, 20174 votes

^ this. If you notice a trend in all the "top tier" adcs right now, its they do one thing really well.. STAY SAFE.

Twitch -invis to pick when he goes in Tristana - jump and knock back Sivir -Spell shield and "gotta go fast" ult Kalista - hopping around/ near the support all game it seems.

I will even go as far as to say Ashe and Jhin are both honorable mentions because of their range/self peel (more ashe than jhin tho.)

Combine this with broken items such as censor and enough shields to stop a tank.. it's tough to even play an assassin unless these champs get super caught out.

Enraged PigletAug 17, 20171 votes

ardent was already secretly op just most people below diamond didn't notice and even a lot of master tier players seemed to not notice how op it was when watching streams. Then redemption and aegis got nerfed and ardents been slowly coming into the light.

Dopa even has a video talking about how op Ardent was months and months ago. Because litterally a janna with ardent and the adc has runaans. Then you litterally gain a BT when janna shields you plus attack speed. Then it also has all the stats a support wants like cdr.

Then coin also got strong and now janna is op. Now with coin a support can give there ad a extra BT even earlier into the game.

Not xPekeAug 15, 20173 votes

no, it's just sheep waking up and joining the bandwagon.

People can say things are meta, they can look at winrates, etc, etc, but ultimately it's just circlejerk behaviour.

There's probably loads of OP or top tier picks that people aren't aware of because pro players or high elo players don't showcase them.

Cait being nerfed is not big enough reason for trist being OP all of a sudden. She was already strong.

ModKnightsKemplarAug 15, 20177 votes

These things all influence each other, though. Cait has always had a high pick rate.

People ARE referencing real stats here. It's reflected in win rates plat+. You are right that some picks fly under the radar until someone finds a new way to play them or something, but that isn't the case here. Trist got stronger because of meta changes.

Not xPekeAug 16, 20172 votes

I don't exactly agree.

She might have got more VIABLE because of meta changes. Her actual strength stayed the same. The damage is the same, the rather safe laning phase is the same, the hyper carry potential stayed the same, etc etc.

ModKnightsKemplarAug 16, 20172 votes

That's not how it works in League. "Raw strength" is not a valuable measurement, because games are always won against other players. If the opponent got weaker, then you got stronger. Only relative strength matters.

MLDzXnRRRAug 15, 201736 votes

Caitlyn was outclassing her.

RainfallAug 15, 201712 votes

caitlyn is now garbage,lucian is in a bad state draven is banned in half the game and tristana is good versus twitch and jhin

SohleksAug 15, 201719 votes

Tristana was fine all along if you knew her strengths. People are just sheep.

My Waifu VanillaAug 15, 20177 votes

You mean buying Shiv+RFC and critting someone for like 1000 from almost 1000 units away? That same thing people complained Caitlyn did when you stepped on a trap? Shiv as a whole is causing so many problems in the ADC role I have no idea why Riot hasn't even attempted to fix the item. 2500 gold for adding at least 300 damage to your first auto is rediculous and makes Duskblade look like a pool noodle.

ChaosThiefAug 15, 20173 votes

At least 300 damage..?

Shiv doesn't grant that much bonus damage, even when a crit is landed. Also, shiv only grants that one hit and attack speed; duskblade still gives cooldown, lethality, and a boost to raw AD.

SithesisLordAug 16, 20173 votes

The problem is that Zeal items all have the same cost.

And the excuse for that is: They´re Zeal items.

TriForce, IBG and Lichbane are Sheen items but they all have different costs because they all serve different purposes and have different build paths.

If the same was applicable to Zeal items, most issues regarding crit items would be solved.

RFC and Shiv have that Shard in their build.

PD and Runaan's could get an item of their own added to the build path. PD especially to replace the double dagger required in it.

That way, Zeal items could all be priced differently according to what their purpose is.

2900 for RFC/Runaan's 3000 for Shiv 3200 for PD

Meep ManAug 15, 201718 votes

"Trash tier" but in reality just wasn't getting any spotlight because she wasn't the best.

I suck at JhinAug 16, 20172 votes

Not best = trash tier Teemo - metasheep 2k17

OurLestradeAug 15, 201715 votes

Pretty much, she was one of the lowest win and pick rates for a while. That's how the win rate and OP boat tends to work, something just clicks and suddenly everyone joins a bandwagon.

QuephaAug 15, 201713 votes

A) No, she wasn't B) Caitlyn nerfs

ThilmerAug 15, 201711 votes

You know how the metasheep Works,

Colgate GatorAug 15, 20177 votes

Not particularly, she has been strong for a while now (if I remember correctly, almost every item she uses were buffed and she herself got buffed), but then her main threats got nerfed, also the games slowed down from the snowball fiestas that we used to have.

Basically, a lot of reasons.

Miku Hime samaAug 15, 20176 votes

It's just herd mentality. Yes, there are a lot of minor factors here and there, item buffs, rival nerfs, blah blah blah. She gets played once by a pro and suddenly the whole flock jumps on the bandwagon. This, alongside winrate propaganda, are the two main things LoL's flock really cares about.

The sheeple called her trash when she wasn't, now they think she's "OP" when she isn't. It's just the FotM.

ThilmerAug 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miku Hime sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8Ljv9Jaf,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2017-08-15T22:38:22.284+0000)

It's just herd mentality. Yes, there are a lot of minor factors here and there, item buffs, rival nerfs, blah blah blah. She gets played once by a pro and suddenly the whole flock jumps on the bandwagon. This, alongside winrate propaganda, are the two main things LoL's flock really cares about.

The sheeple called her trash when she wasn't, now they think she's "OP" when she isn't. It's just the FotM.

I can't forget those two weeks of losing ranked games because "one corean pro used Missffortune support in a pro match and that means Missfortune is a powerful support". No, she isn't, but people needed to try it and ruin hundreds of matches to realice it.

XxxLumberJackxxXAug 15, 20175 votes

Lane bully champs were nerfed

Bouncemaster ZacAug 15, 20174 votes

No, she wasn't. She's been strong for at least a couple months.

DezellAug 15, 20174 votes

Cait counters Trist and Cait isn't seeing as much play anymore.

SpecterVonBarenAug 15, 20173 votes

It's more that Caitlyn is a better Tristana so once Caitlyn got nerfed Tristana wasn't completely outclassed.

invisiblecat1Aug 15, 20174 votes

The pros started to play her so people realized she really wasn't garbage

valve nerf plsAug 15, 20172 votes

gameplay boards stopped complaining and circlejeking about cait and then moved to another champion to complain and circlejerk about.

KarfussAug 16, 20172 votes

It's just a nerf cycle.

Tristana isn't any more OP or UP than she was a month ago, it's just that ADC champions have been routinely nerfed and Tristana has now become the strongest.

Personally, I always considered Tristana to be strong. She is my pocket pick ADC. A jump with reset, paired with scaling attack range and a knockback, always felt game breakingly safe (unless you're against a Veigar support). Appears that people were a bit late to the party, and failed to realise it until now.

JackMcSnipeyzAug 16, 20172 votes

She got played in the LCS after the cait nerfs then everyone remembered "hey, tris is pretty good" and noe she's FoTM

Athenes LuluAug 16, 20172 votes

Except she has been good for quite a while higher up for at least a month or two now, it's just about time that even the lowbies found out how actually not weak she has been all along.

Crit items got a cost reduction and a lot of ADCs on top of the food chain nerfed, it's no surprise that she rose up in power and popularity. The self-peel made her a much more popular soloQ pick since we all know... they're not gonna trust randoms to do the peeling.

Oh and meanwhile Twitch Twitch Twitch

PoskeAug 15, 20171 votes

She got directly buffed

r4ndomkillAug 15, 20172 votes

when? her items got buffed but i dont think she ever was.

LightIsMyPathAug 16, 20171 votes

Her q was buffed

DaNinadAug 16, 20171 votes

when

Automated RivenAug 16, 20172 votes

Patch 7.9

DaNinadAug 16, 20172 votes

??? she got 0.5 mr per level like everyone did

J EpsteinAug 16, 20171 votes

when has trist ever been considered trash tier?

SpongebobIsLifeAug 16, 20173 votes

for majority of the last 2 seasons.

Critmaster GarenAug 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Clint Orris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8Ljv9Jaf,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-08-15T16:17:41.038+0000)

Wtf happened lmao.

she got buffed?

they increased the attack speed on her q, if im not mistaken.

edit.:

V7.9

Stats > Magic resistance growth increased to 0.5 from 0.

V7.3

Rapid Fire.png Rapid Fire > Duration increased to 7 seconds from 5.

lil kodaAug 16, 20172 votes

dude thats so many patches ago lol. shes been trash this whole time, but then crit items got reduced in price, and cait got nerfed

MorticianjohnAug 16, 20173 votes

She really was pretty bad before the buff. She was one of the lowest win rate ADCs but after the buff she was no longer trash tier. Sure she wasn't seeing much play at that point but balance wise she was fine after the buff.