I remember seeing Meddler on the Riot stream say they want to change her so she isn't feast or famine, has a better late game, and her E is less frustrating.
Changes before, during, or after the mage rework or is this being ice boxed atm?
RiotMeddler44 votesPotentially before the mage rework. We're trying some stuff at the moment that's showing some initial promise (shorter E Vessel duration so you're not waiting forever to start normal play again, faster tentacle spawns during that reduced duration, shorter spirit lifetime, removal of the 'hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life mechanic since that's not well communicated and is often just a trap).
Mr Broken Wings3 votesPotentially before the mage rework. We're trying some stuff at the moment that's showing some initial promise (shorter E Vessel duration so you're not waiting forever to start normal play again, faster tentacle spawns during that reduced duration, shorter spirit lifetime, removal of the 'hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life mechanic since that's not well communicated and is often just a trap).
Could you guys do an "ask me anything" thread soon again here?:) It feels like rioter dont watch this section as much anymore! Would be cool if we could get a few hours of your time to ask you a few things about the game again!
Flemman4 votesWait what, if you hit illaoi the spirit return faster? That's a good thing to know, I always though the hit illaoi while spirit was just there to even the trade damage wise >-<
anyway, as long as aram illaoi is fixed in the process it will be great (to powerfull at present)
Decrit2 votesi quote this.
like, rito, really?!
quoted from the wiki: "The Spirit has 100% of their current health and lasts for 10 seconds, reduced by 1 second each time Illaoi receives damage from the target champion. The tether will be severed if the Spirit is killed or when the target moves too far away."
this amazes me, i consider myself a wikiworm but i got past this.
Decrit4 votes"The Spirit has 100% of their current health and lasts for 10 seconds, reduced by 1 second each time Illaoi receives damage from the target champion. The tether will be severed if the Spirit is killed or when the target moves too far away."
since we are here, care to explain how exactly the mechanic works? it' s 1 second everytime she gets hit ( meaning a dot spell procs multiple times ) or there are some intervals ( like the reduction happens only once ever second or something).
PrequelMemes4 votesAccording to LoLwiki: "Each instance of the target's periodic damage versus Illaoi will reduce the Spirit's duration."
morris16 votesCan confirm, it is blatantly easy to get rid of the spirit with someone like Malzahar.
xMetix1 votesYup as Illaoi main i hate sunfire damn this item.
Decrit1 votesso, bear with me for a second.
i am trundle. i attack you, use q and i wear a sunfire in a second span . it means that i just reduced the vessel duration by 3 seconds?
other example, lissandra. I use q, an auto-attack and i have luden' s and dft. in a second time i reduce the duration by 4 seconds?
actually, how dft interacts with illaoi? like sunfire?
xMetix1 votesDFT is strange. I feel like not every tick of it applies but it's making soul disappear pretty quickly. Also Luden's reduce time on soul only if it does separate damage (you first need to hit a minion and then it needs to jump on illaoi) otherwise only the spell that land on her reduce the timing on it.
Adalore31 votesDo please address the awkward of having the vessel spirit persist once illaoi is dead. :P
It's awkward getting it pulled out of you and then you KILL her and can't walk out at full speed because you can still tether the spirit effect.
I am Razgriz5 votesYes I hate her pulling my spirit and then killing her and then oh I'm a vessel anyway because I had to leave.
Astôlfo1 votesOr, you could just stay around till it ends within a few seconds anyways. She started the Test of Spirit, she doesn't have to be there to continually administer it. lol
I am Razgriz1 votesBeing "around" and being "dead" are two very different things.
And no, I'd like to leave. I'm a jungler I've got shit to do.
Astôlfo1 votesThen dodge the E.
I am Razgriz3 votessigh
You're right. I'm sure you've never been hooked by Blitz or had your spirit pulled by Illaoi ever. Ever.
Astôlfo1 votesI have been, what's your point?
I am Razgriz2 votesDo you really have to downvote just because I don't agree with you?
You're going to get E'd by Illaoi eventually. I shouldn't be punished for killing her.
Jesus is Savior1 votesPotentially before the mage rework. We're trying some stuff at the moment that's showing some initial promise (shorter E Vessel duration so you're not waiting forever to start normal play again, faster tentacle spawns during that reduced duration, shorter spirit lifetime, removal of the 'hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life mechanic since that's not well communicated and is often just a trap).
As for faster tentacle spawns... If Illaoi turns me into a spirit and kills it, I'm still gonna be able to recall, right?
Even under the current system if I'm not paying attention sometimes a tentacle will hit me while I'm recalling (even in stealth!)
Shuyin1784 votesIf you are not paying attention then you deserve to get slapped. As for getting hit in stealth, they are attracted to you for the duration. So naturally they are going to attack you if you are in range as long as you are a Vessel.
Jesus is Savior5 votesIf you are not paying attention then you deserve to get slapped. As for getting hit in stealth, they are attracted to you for the duration. So naturally they are going to attack you if you are in range as long as you are a Vessel.
if the tentacles spawn under the new system faster than the recall channel time, it will be impossible to recall
Critmaster Garen3 votes[{quoted}](name=That Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8KxApZ5K,comment-id=0000000400000000,timestamp=2016-03-19T22:01:22.450+0000)
if the tentacles spawn under the new system faster than the recall channel time, it will be impossible to recall
yes. and that shouldnt change, lol.
"hey im the vessel now, let me just sit here and spam b, so the tentacles ignore me"
my guess is that the 3 tentacle kills to cleanse the effect will remain. so do that insted of instantly recalling. good news too. since theyre spawning faster, you wont have to wait for them as long before you can kill them.
Arakadia3 votesIts annoying though because you can't really farm, dodge Illaoi's spells, hit your own spells, and dodge the vessel tentacles all at once very easilly. And if your low you can't really recall because of the tentacles trying to hit you. And if you happen to not dodge on of them they do a quite amount of damage.
Siachi2 votesKind of glad you agree with the "Hit Illaoi to reduce spirit's life" part: Given that she's a juggernaut, I don't think she's the kind of champion you should be encouraged to get into an extended trade with, spirit or no spirit. ESPECIALLY if you're a melee champ who can't just poke from afar and kite to try to reduce the spirit's life from a reletively safe distance.
rtbf2090432852 votesPotentially before the mage rework. We're trying some stuff at the moment that's showing some initial promise (shorter E Vessel duration so you're not waiting forever to start normal play again, faster tentacle spawns during that reduced duration, shorter spirit lifetime, removal of the 'hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life mechanic since that's not well communicated and is often just a trap).
Just make her less kitable by adding a slow buff to her tentacles and remove it from her E instead of ruining the lore theme of her Test of Spirit, no? Also could her passive work like Azir's passive where you have to click on the position you want the tentacles to spawn by selecting the predefinied spots? The thing that bothers me the most about her kit is when the tentacles spawns in a shitty spot or in base, that triggers me so hard. Also please, never change her ult, she has one of the best animation in the game and whenever I ult with Illaoi I feel so badass, it's the piece of her kit that went full Yasuo/Zed mode, godbless whoever came up with that ult idea.
Herdis Leah6 votesI know its hard to comment on becausr none of this is even on the pbe, but as an illaoi main these sound like nerfs across the board.
In my view being a vessel is pretty useless when you can sell your boots, then walk from nexus to nexus through the jungle and never once be in any danger of being hit.
How is a shorter vessel duration or spirit duration supposed to help?
Abyssphere9 votes[{quoted}](name=Herdis Leah,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8KxApZ5K,comment-id=0000000b,timestamp=2016-03-19T23:20:17.497+0000)
I know its hard to comment on becausr none of this is even on the pbe, but as an illaoi main these sound like nerfs across the board.
In my view being a vessel is pretty useless when you can sell your boots, then walk from nexus to nexus through the jungle and never once be in any danger of being hit.
How is a shorter vessel duration or spirit duration supposed to help?
Being a vessel is really irritating/dull for enemies and if it's as unimpactful as you say then it's something Riot can easily change without having to worry too much about it hurting her. Illaoi causes a huge amount of player frustration at the best of times but if they nerf the aspects of her kit that give enemy players a bad experience against her, they'll give themselves a lot more breathing room to make her strong.
Right now I think it would be a mistake to buff her significantly because there's basically no way she wouldn't be perma-ban if she was stong. This is why Riot have hardly buffed her at all since she came out even though she's essentially considered a troll pick by the community. If they tone down the stuff that makes players hate her, they can actually make her good.
Obviously if these changes go through then they will just be flat nerfs but they sepcifically said they wanted to buff her late game so it's clear that they're gonna nerf her in these areas and buff her in others. As an Illaoi player you should be looking forward to this.
Astôlfo1 votesThe E aspect is fine, it's too weak if anything. Easy to dodge the skillshot itself, easy to dodge the ridiculously slow tentacle swings that also spawn so slow you can literally just recall 90% of the time first. And it's not that hard to just buff her without making her permaban worthy lol.
MrWasjig4 votesNo her E aspect is awful and I hope it stays weak. Because despite it being weak (apparently), it's a nightmare and frustrating to deal with.
Arakadia4 votesIts annoying af though and you can't really farm, dodge her Q, dodge the vessel tentacles, farm, harass, ward, and aim spells. Its just like another minigame kinda.
ThreshMySoul1 votesMaybe you didn't see, but he also said faster tentacle spawn during vessel time. This would be the thing that could make or break them as nerfs/buffs. If it affects her passive spawning then this gives you far better set up time, but not really that impactful unless ahead/grouping. If its just the vessel spawning tentacles, it could be interesting.
For Illaoi, being able to get past the first turret to place tentacles is really crucial in terms of being able to fight. The lane isn't wide enough like in the middle of lane to avoid not getting hit by tentacles on opposite sides (ie, when you w, two tentacles can slap the same area). If you can constantly keep applying her E, this in theory should improve her snowball if she can ever get to that point, but these changes still would't change her "Feast or Famine" playstyle.
I am Razgriz3 votes'hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life mechanic since that's not well communicated and is often just a trap).
nonononononono
Please keep this, even as someone who doesn't play Illaoi. It gives the rest of us a choice to make and Illaoi is all about choice. Listen to her quotes. Seriously, keep that shit in. Lots of things are traps. It's only a trap to a bad player and it's okay to have bad players.
thresholden2 votesAre you actually going to lower the cooldown of Illaoi's passive without hitting an E? Because getting more than a single tentacle set up late game is too difficult due to the long CD. Making her E spawn more tentacles faster isn't going to solve any problems since hitting E from long range is too hard anyways.
Stretch2 votesPotentially before the mage rework. We're trying some stuff at the moment that's showing some initial promise (shorter E Vessel duration so you're not waiting forever to start normal play again, faster tentacle spawns during that reduced duration, shorter spirit lifetime, removal of the 'hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life mechanic since that's not well communicated and is often just a trap).
As someone with an 82% illaoi win rate in ranked, I'm fine with all of this as long as you bring her base attack speed and/or her attack speed growth stat up a bit.
noobule2 votesThis might not be your department, but can you see if they can clean up the tentacle spawns too? They can be really finicky around hard corners, like the entrance to the pits, or the entrances to the blue buff quadrants. The tentacles will refuse to spawn when you're right next to the spawn point until you've walked around and found the bloody 'sweet spot'. It's like picking food out of your teeth except sometimes the bloody game depends on it.
MysteriousBootie2 votesPotentially before the mage rework. We're trying some stuff at the moment that's showing some initial promise (shorter E Vessel duration so you're not waiting forever to start normal play again, faster tentacle spawns during that reduced duration, shorter spirit lifetime, removal of the 'hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life mechanic since that's not well communicated and is often just a trap).
Can you guys take a look at Kindred at some point too? She's kinda underwhelming tbh, and you guys kinda just slapped her in the game and left her be o.o
Bombkirby3 votesThat sounds like more nerfs than buffs. Illaoi has the issue where she brings nothing to the team. Currently all she's good for it beating players who don't understand her kit and play against her all wrong. She needs a big increase on her slow, like turn it into a stun or a 99% slow that lasts a long time if they leave the zone. Or give her some speed. Anything to help her stick to a target or engage, or offer utility.
She needs something to give her a reason to be picked other than just damage. Illaoi is a tanky/high damage CCless champion Like Shyvana, but without the speed to stick to people, so everyone just calmly walks away while she does nothing. The other juggernauts (like Garen) have speed, or a hard CC/engaging tool (Darius) and I feel like Illaoi needs more than that very brief slow that usually activates when the enemy is miles away from her. She needs... some utility/niche/purpose.
TL;DR: She's frustrating to play against but not a "strong" champion. Fix the frustration without nerfing her. Give her some sort of defining trait/a reason to pick her.
The buffs like faster tentacle spawns are wonderful but there's so much more that needs to be done. Like her vision issue ruins her. People can see tentacles perk up when she goes near them, even in fog of war, and that gives away her position. Because of that she will never be in competitive play and will never be viable against an aware opponent. She's really only effective (but VERY effective due to her confusing nature) against inexperienced players.
Honestly I would have been fine if you guys just added more visual cues to her E. Most people see the circle and assume "I need to get out of it." If you put a giant arrow on Illaoi or made the circle look more like an arena you want to stay inside, or make the outside of the circle look red/evil/bad then people would understand to stay inside it and kill her.
Also It's also only a "trap" if she's level 6+ and has her ult. Without her ult going ham on her seems fine.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesI still feel that illaoi would be better if you changed her to hybrid scaling and deal pure magic damage, and let her Q additionally interrupt enemies,
Abyssphere2 votesI still feel that illaoi would be better if you changed her to hybrid scaling and deal pure magic damage, and let her Q additionally interrupt enemies,
She needs %total AD scalings because she... doesn't build much of any offense and there are no AP items suitable for a juggernaut to build. AP scalign would be worthless, especially if her AD scalings or bases had to take a hit in exchange for her getting them.
And she needs to do physical damage so that Black Cleaver will work well with her.
GambitBeast2 votesYou say shorter spirit lifetime. If you are doing this are you going to lower the spirit's health? Because its hard for Illaoi to kill the spirit already in laning phase so a smaller timeframe to kill the spirit would make it impossible to kill the spirit.
Edge of Daybreak2 votesThose sound like nerfs across the board and well looking at these third party statistics she should be getting buffs if anything.
Squidblimp11 votesAre you guys also going to address Illaoi's tentacles giving away her position in the Fog of War? Enemies can see if they're Active or Dormant even without vision, hinting at Illaoi's location.
Brownbearjeww2 votesI have played a lot of Illaoi, I honestly think that any form of CC with her ult would make her much more viable
edit: or perhaps immune to CC during ult
Krys Star2 votesWill her tentacles remain idling unless she uses W, or her E is active on a target? It's pretty frustrating having tentacles that just... idle, especially when being attacked by an enemy instead of counterstriking.
Kaillooh2 votesIllaoi is tasked with challenging them with the Test of Nagakabouros.[...] Survivors of the ordeal are forever changed and often find the will to pursue their true destiny.
@Meddler Do you think a slight reward when you successfully fight against illaoi when she pulls your spirit would be something good ? I dunno what reward exactly, but it could make the 
E become less frustrating for the opponent, as he can gain a bonus when countered correctly.
...And that fits the lore very well :D
TeCoolMage1 votesremoval of the 'hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life mechanic since that's not well communicated and is often just a trap).
I <3 you.
Intuitivity ftw
MrWasjig1 votesPlease just tone down the E/Vessel nonsense. It is not fun to play against in the slightest and is just arduous to deal with at any and all points of the game.
Conclusion, not fun.
Flemman1 votesone small question cross my mind, if illaoi E don't give assist, is it the reson she didn't take aggro from tower if she hit it too. Wouldn't it be better, either for illaoi and her opponent, to give her the zilean's bomb 1 damage mechanic?
EnvyDragon1 votesI have two main comments:
What??? You can hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life?! I'm nearly mastery 5 with her and I had no idea. Spirit duration is poorly communicated in general too - I never know when it's supposed to vanish.
Her E in general is very confusing and seems distorted in its goals. If an enemy stays in as a vessel, I have a clear advantage. But the debuff lasts so long and has so little immediate impact that it frequently just results in the enemy laner playing passively until it wears off. It doesn't even have a huge impact if they DO decide to go in - it just puts a bit more pressure on them.
Anything that streamlines it a bit and increases the impact would be immensely helpful. The "kill tentacles to remove debuff" mechanic is a bad idea to me - it encourages the player to sit back and wait for tentacles to spawn, so it creates the noob trap of making passive/nonfarming play feel like the correct answer.
Why not try this: -Vessel duration is significantly shorter, duration is reset if Illaoi lands another E (because the fact that it currently doesn't makes no sense, if I can chain Tests of Spirit successfully I should be rewarded). -Vessel CANNOT DAMAGE TENTACLES and tentacles swing faster if the Vessel is the target, like a specific-case version of her Ult self-buff (or alternatively tentacles swing more frequently). -Vessel can see tentacle attack range, perhaps as an extension of the vessel visual overlay.
This way, Illaoi significantly increases pressure on a Vessel, but they don't feel like "wait it out" is the right response - they instead want to stay in the fight and farm while having increased awareness of danger. Landing a Test of Spirit doesn't give you a feast-or-famine "free farm for 20 seconds/do nothing whatsoever if you're behind" result anymore, but it gives you a cumulative advantage window each time you do it, and that gives you a bunch of rewards if you can do it consistently in lane.
Meep Man2 votesI think it would be cooler to play against a little bit if the curse duration was like 20-30 seconds, but the tentacle spawn time was reduced to like 3.33-5 seconds. Makes the "Test" a little bit more of a "Test" and less of a... "Welp, this isn't really hard, just tedious," type of thing.
Something I would suggest is to make it to where "Vessel" tentacles don't have a limited range away from other tentacles since I can see with the reduced spawn interval it indirectly being easier since, if the target doesn't kill the tentacle around them fast enough, the new tentacle spawn is delayed a little.
