What is it with peoples obsession with being able to dodge something making it balanced

Hibeki·Aug 4, 2016·43 votes·2,613 views

No matter how broken something may be, people will always dismiss it with "Dodge the skillshot" or "Don't fight in the ult"

Dude if there was a skill that was a guaranteed 10 thousand percent maximum health true damage ability, but it was a mediocre slow skillshot, that DOESN'T MAKE IT BALANCED.

You can dodge that shit all you want, and yes, that will stop it from killing you, but that doesn't make it ok.

You seriously want me to believe that I shouldn't be hit by EVERY SINGLE SKILLSHOT in the game for things to be balanced? There's not a single person in the game who can avoid that and still play to max potential. That's an unrealistic expectation.

97 Comments

BergkAug 4, 201619 votes

{quoted}

Dude if there was a skill that was a guaranteed 10 thousand percent maximum health true damage ability, but it was a mediocre slow skillshot, that DOESN'T MAKE IT BALANCED.

Under the right conditions, a full AP Nunu could do >4,000 damage as AOE damage. But no one complains that he's broken. Because its avoidable.

HibekiAug 4, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Under the right conditions, a full AP Nunu could do >4,000 damage as AOE damage. But no one complains that he's broken. Because its avoidable.

Yeah because it's not based on walking out of it, you stun his ass and his ult does zero damage and goes on a 2 minute cooldown.

Also hes not viable in this meta to begin with.

CasterGilgameshAug 4, 20162 votes

to be fair (not trying to disagree) stopping the channel doesn't stop the damage it damages based on when the channel was interrupted so stopping it at the last minute is still painful or at least that how it seems to work not to mention it has a weird interaction with the tall grass where you cant see the animation unless you have vision of nunu himself

ZephyrDrakeAug 4, 201616 votes

{quoted}

Under the right conditions, a full AP Nunu could do >4,000 damage as AOE damage. But no one complains that he's broken. Because its avoidable.

well if you let a full AP Nunu full channel the ult then i would give that Nunu a prize since not only did he actually managed to fully channel his ult, he did it with a terrible build that people only use in ARAM. People don't complain about Nunu's ult doing damage because it never does any damage. You don't see AP Nunu's outside of ARAM, you don't see Nunu period in SR. People can't complain about things they never see happening

DynikusAug 4, 20164 votes

I had one game where a full ap nunu landed a full charge ult from me foolishly facechecking the brush right outside our base. He did absolutely horrible that game, but I bet it was all worth it for him because he got that one kill.

The Blue RajahAug 4, 20162 votes

Worth.

DænariusKhølerinAug 5, 20161 votes

LOL. I can imagine the "deal with it" glasses descending onto his face afterward.

MalfoinDingue197Aug 4, 20162 votes

you guys are funny i play full ap nunu and i get kills and when you play jg that ult is awesome you just do your ult behind them so they have to go trough your ult and you land it if they going away and then snowball to their death lol [zombie-nunu-hearts]

It Hertz When IPAug 4, 20164 votes

Here, my gift to you:

It is called a "period". Take it, and use it well.

MalfoinDingue197Aug 4, 20163 votes

o yeah because thats totally the point here. (you see that i used your gift!!!!) and sorry but english isn't my primary language and im putting a lot of effort just so you guys understand me so plz dont be a b*tch. (and btw period isnt this , ???)<----------real question

DænariusKhølerinAug 5, 20162 votes

No my good sir - that's a comma.

, = comma

. = period/decimal/full stop

; = semicolon

: = colon

Have a good day :)

MalfoinDingue197Aug 5, 20163 votes

thanks alot*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

DrugothAug 5, 20161 votes

Technically a lot is two words as well... :P

DeathBot666Aug 5, 20162 votes

But then that nunu just charges in the middle of no where and is ulted into a pentakill by ryze.

LadyRenlyAug 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

well if you let a full AP Nunu full channel the ult then i would give that Nunu a prize since not only did he actually managed to fully channel his ult, he did it with a terrible build that people only use in ARAM. People don't complain about Nunu's ult doing damage because it never does any damage. You don't see AP Nunu's outside of ARAM, you don't see Nunu period in SR. People can't complain about things they never see happening

i had to face it once in the midlane, it was beyond cancer

fuck that point and click snowball nuke

HongChongDongAug 4, 201615 votes

Actually. Jhins ult at one point when he was being developed was infact a global level 1 shot insta kill regardless of what the targets resistances were or how much HP they had, long story short it actually turned out the the skill shot was so easily dodgeable that is wasn't viable period.

Only Play DariusAug 4, 20162 votes

That actually sounds hilarious. I've always wanted a true 1-shot ability

AstôlfoAug 4, 201610 votes

I detect someone salty about Illaoi lmao And even in general, skillshots are balanced because of the very fact almost every single one is easy to dodge. And if they land it, they get rewarded for it. No skillshot's reward is too great.

TequilaZombieAug 4, 20168 votes

No skillshot's reward is too great.

Yes it is. You can add some extra power to an ability due to it being an skill shot. Usually range or damage or low CD (or even up to 2 of them without having to take power out of other aspects of their kits). If Nid's spear gets 10% slower but is able to 1 shot a squishy target, the reward is too great.

Only Play DariusAug 4, 20163 votes

I can't play Illaoi without someone crying lol. It's usually the same people who stay in my ult and follow me into the bush during ganks

AstôlfoAug 4, 20163 votes

Like, with the tentacle change, tentacles in bushes are visible. People still follow me in anyways. I'm just like, "why?"

ShaaolinAug 5, 20162 votes

Omg SO EZ to dodge LIKE SERIUSLY SLOWEST SKILLSHOT IN GAME (i think) also short range at 20 sec cooldown early on.

Why people complain about it and not about tresh hook or something that you actually need to flash dodge it?

Hinagiku33Aug 5, 20162 votes

This is blatantly untrue.

Remember that skillshots can also be used on stunned/rooted/snared/feared targets to pretty much guarantee a hit.

Skillshots WILL hit and still need to be balanced so they aren't completely overpowered when they do hit.

ModAcademy KaynAug 4, 20168 votes

So you want abilities that you could stand still, take a hit and not give a flying f**k about? With no consequence?

DynikusAug 4, 20165 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUHsWDup9-Y

Pierce The VealAug 4, 20166 votes

{quoted}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUHsWDup9-Y

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lzn-esBaSZU

Surr20plzAug 4, 20165 votes

What are you even referring to?

teenage strawman detected

Zane ZephyrAug 4, 201610 votes

A lot of things, blitz hooks come into mind particularly

TequilaZombieAug 4, 20169 votes

Blitz hook, old Nid's spears, maybe Morg's snare. There are a couple things he might be reffering to.

Mr FidoriAug 4, 20162 votes

Lol I knew someone in this thread was gonna bring him up.

"Quake in fear, fleshling" Blitzcrank

VerdadeAug 4, 20164 votes

Take Sion for example. If he was able to turn during Q charging, blow his shield regardless if it was popped and flash during R, he would be monstrously OP. But he's one of the most balanced champions in the game. Same goes for Ezreal, Vel'koz and many other skill-based champions. Heck, even current Poppy is VERY decent, if underplayed a bit. Meanwhile Akali, Soraka, Eve, Yi. They are all uncounterable point-and-click champions, either OP or useless. Adding counterability (not necessarily skillshots) allows champions to hold much more raw power and still be balanced.

What if Yi's AA dealt only 60-70% of his current damage, but placed a stack on enemy, and his E would be a short range cone cleave that consumed marks to deal HUGE damage? His Q could be single target gapcloser, but it's duration and number of jumps could be increased by stack amount on his target... He would be much more manageable, yet he could be much more powerful.

CasterGilgameshAug 4, 20163 votes

soraka has a very slow moving Q and a root that anyone even when Slowed by item 3116 can walk out of before it happens.....also her healing cost 10% of her Max health i dont see how that doesnt count as balanced...

VerdadeAug 4, 20161 votes

It's about her healing, not Q/E. You can't stop it, unless you kill her. You cant separate her from her allies because she has quite good range and more importantly massive MS boost. She can just play passive and it's uncounterable. Its HP cost is exploited by chugging pots/nomads medallion/warmogs. Even if she doesn't abuse this, she can heal waay too much before running out of HP

CasterGilgameshAug 4, 20161 votes

but thats what soraka does i understand she can be up setting to fight but i mean come on...lots of abilities have no counter play ult for one since she will just by pass any cc she can peel most champions decently. the very nature of adc is that they have unavoidable dps since you cant dodge auto attacks.Just because a champion may be annoying to deal with doesnt mean they are over powered

VerdadeAug 4, 20161 votes

She's unbalancable, meaning either op or useless. She has been reworked like 5 times already. Even rito admitted she's balance nightmare and she keeps her heal just because she's has her "dedicated healer" fantasy. Meanwhile Janna has the same kit since release, she was always decent pick. When she was over/underpreforming she got little number changes, but that's it.

Also, Vi's R is counterable by spellshield, zhonya's, mikael's, mercurial and cleanse.

Dextix LTAug 5, 20161 votes

mikael's, mercurial and cleanse.

False

newbinAug 4, 20163 votes

It's not just the fact that it is dodgeable but how easy it is to dodge. This is at heart a strategy game remember? Every single caster AD and AP burst champion this applies too. They are all balanced around this. People learned them and how to handle them.

TehNACHOAug 4, 20163 votes

Can you just come right out and say you don't like Illaoi?

God at the others were upfront about it.

HibekiAug 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Can you just come right out and say you don't like Illaoi?

God at the others were upfront about it.

Illaoi is not special in my hate circle. I hate anyone that can build one damage item, 1v3, and come out with more health than they came in.

AstôlfoAug 5, 20161 votes

But I mean, your opening post literally talks about Illaoi in everything but explicit name as your first example.

zlumpyAug 4, 20163 votes

Stop fighting in Illaoi's ul....huh?

Whats that? someone whispering I've just been informed this wasn't an Illaoi is Op thread...um...have a good day.

USG FailsawceAug 4, 20162 votes

The worst is when people think the only way to "balance" or rework a champion 100% requires turning their signature point and click ability into a skill shot.

Pantheon Teemo Annie Gangplank

Thanks Ryze reworks.

VerdadeAug 4, 20162 votes

GP was somehow fixed with barrels. Old gp would just stack AD/crit and oneshot with parrley. New GP can do almost the same except he can do it in AOE, but requires skill input and is counterplayable

USG FailsawceAug 4, 20164 votes

{quoted}

GP was somehow fixed with barrels. Old gp would just stack AD/crit and oneshot with parrley. New GP can do almost the same except he can do it in AOE, but requires skill input and is counterplayable

I was talking about people actually making posts about things like his Q being turned into a skillshot. Requesting this sort of thing to "balance" the champ whenever they're in an even just 'ok' spot.

Like the many posts I've seen about Pantheon and Teemo... who aren't even in particularly strong spots. All the kiddos who can't handle them make threads about "rework pls, make their Qs into skillshots!", like it's some fad now or something.

Or as if a champ is just flat broken if they have any targetable abilities at all.

SidestepAug 4, 20161 votes

I'd beg to differ; both of he champs you listen are actually pretty strong atm.

USG FailsawceAug 4, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=God Kindred NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=82862bJ5,comment-id=000d000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T17:38:44.047+0000)

I'd beg to differ; both of he champs you listen are actually pretty strong atm.

They're in "good enough" spots, but certainly far from "so strong pls rework and also make all abilities into skillshots pls" strong.

In fact, this should never be a reason for rework... or a trend OF reworks. There's a reason target abilities exist in this game, as they fit the kits, mechanics, and playstyles of their champions.

But so many bad kids just want to see the champ that wronged them burn, and couldn't care less about balance and logic. That was my point. In fact, "Rework pls too OP" alone shouldn't even be a fad, period.