18 Comments

ElJanitorFrank5 votes

You can instantly rule out anyone who has a play % of less than 1%, they are statistically anomalies that aren't representative of their strengths.

And if everybody just nerfed champions at the top every patch, we'd eventually wind up with extremely weaker champions overall.

If X champion is at the top, then nerfing them is definitely not the only option.

Think about Vayne. The reason she wasn't played so much in the past was because she had a weak laning phase. Recently, all of the early game ADCs like Graves got nerfed. Now Vayne doesn't have any real counters, and has grown in terms of win rate and popularity.

CatSith1 votes

Exactly!

Only Play Darius1 votes

{quoted}

Think about Vayne. The reason she wasn't played so much in the past was because she had a weak laning phase. Recently, all of the early game ADCs like Graves got nerfed. Now Vayne doesn't have any real counters, and has grown in terms of win rate and popularity.

Her core item item 3153 also got numerous buffs.

Vekkna5 votes

She will be nerfed. There's absolutely no doubt about it. Something's going to get the nerfbat, and I think it's probably her stun duration getting knocked down to 1.2 sec at rank 1 with .2 sec per level.

Personally, I do not think she needs nerfs. I also think it's bizarre that some champs are perennially untouchable like Riven Irelia Blitzcrank MonkeyKing Yasuo MasterYi while others are constantly getting pushed back into shit-tier after seeing average success with moderate buffs. Like why are Elise Evelynn Cassiopeia Lissandra Syndra just not allowed to be viable/strong these days while Nidalee exists?

CatSith1 votes

If they do nerf her, I don't think they will touch the stun duration because its been changed too much already. Maybe reducing the missile speed they buffed a while back, making it harder to land.

Vekkna1 votes

Why would you think that matters to them at all? Have we learned nothing from Evelynn

CatSith1 votes

Nope, just hopeful. :<

OxBaker3 votes

When Trundle and Galio have the top spots and Talon is 4th, you know you can't nerf based on that sites win rate stats.

CatSith1 votes

Well that is the only argument players have been making to nerfing Elise.

CancerNoobUseles2 votes

between those champions only ahri is in need of nerfs

A Miss Fortune2 votes

I would really be mad if Elise was nerfed, she's strong and viable but she definitely has counterplay and isn't overpowered.

NemeBro2 votes

Trundle support has the highest win rate in the game.

General Murica1 votes

{quoted}

Trundle support has the highest win rate in the game.

1/400 pr.

Lugg1 votes

She may need a nerf but I agree that there are champs who need them much more than her.

SaltyKracka1 votes

I'll agree with you on the subject of Heimer, Wukong, and Ahri.

Galio's dataset is incredibly pitiful, so I'm just viewing his placement as a kind of weiiiiiird outlier.

A couple of the rest are probably just waiting for other factors (WW's winrate will probably drop when they nerf Devourer, for example)

Hard4Hamsters1 votes

Well. In Diamond and above, she has the 2nd highest winrate right behind Nidalee. The problem is that she shot up over 10% overnight with the buffs she received to her E. That IS significant and you wouldn't really expect a champion to rise that high with someone with a more complicated kit than say Galio or Warwick who have some of the highest spots in Champion.gg. They both drop in winrate the higher you climb in ELO/Rank whereas Nidalee and Elise rise and there is something to be said about that.

Now looking at some of the statistics. Galio, Heimer, and Trundle(support) have ~1% or less playrates. You really can't make a judgement call on whether they are OP or not based on a small sample size as such low playrates would imply that "mains" are playing them, or that they are being played almost exclusively into heavily favorable matchups. When champions, such as Elise or Nidalee just get picked into ANY matchup by ANY (higher skill) player and still thrive with 55+% winrates, one should suspect that they are exceptionally strong right now.

I want Elise to be strong, but I think she is too strong right now. The 1.6 stun duration at level 1 is higher than it has EVER been. The last time Elise was called OP, it was when she had a 1.5 second stun at all levels (there were other reasons she was strong, but there is a reason it was lowered to 1 second at level 1). This change to her E was too much in conjunction with all the other buffs she had received since season 5.

There is an interesting statistic that I found when Elise was weaker 2-3 patches ago. Less than 20% of players used the maxing skill order Q-->E-->W; however, there was an increase of over 5% in winrate amongst players who did so. This I think is significant. When 70-80% of players were maxing Q-->W-->E, they were missing out on a lot of the power that came with leveling E which included a longer stun on a lower CD, more Rappels, and more recently, bonus damage to Spiderlings that scaled with rank when using Spider E. What you got with leveling W first was just more damage and a little bit more sustain. The bonus damage situationally in spiderform from each skill if you maxed W or E was relatively similar as the 140% Attack speed versus 100% bonus sustain and damage from spiderlings is close enough that really all you gain from W max second is the burst damage from human W.

What does this mean? Well, she was in a spot where she was better off building off-tanky (penetration and tank) and being a stunbot mid-lategame, but many people were not optimizing to this playstyle. Right now, she is best with a early to midgame burst assassin, which honestly, I like a lot better, but she is able to do that because she has such a strong stun without having to invest in it. She has too much power in the rest of her kit to allow her to have such a high duration stun at level 1. If they are to keep her level 1 stun duration high, there need to be cuts in the power of her Q. I personally would rather have her stun duration lowered, but I'm not sure that is going to be implemented immediately. We'll see what happens, but I do believe she is a problem right now. Peace.

NERDSMASHER50001 votes

When a champion who is difficult to play has a 54% winrate there's a huge fucking problem

General Murica1 votes

{quoted}

When a champion who is difficult to play has a 54% winrate there's a huge fucking problem

But ahri and eve are also hard

-delusional GD nerds.

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