Junglers like Jarvan and Lee Sin ganks give you limited choices at best and they're catch 22

HateDaddy··3 votes·549 views

Vi can also be put into this category but she's not AS bad as both Lee and Jarvan

From the moment these two hit level 3 and back to buy stalkers, they can gank away and easily force summoners. As a solo laner specifically, there's very few things you can do to avoid these ganks unless:

You have absurd mobility Absurd Disengage Absurd durability (which lets be honestly, early on nobody really meets this)

And if you're immobile, God have mercy on your soul.

There's almost nothing you can do about a Lee Sin or Jarvan ganking you with chilling smite. Even if Lee misses his Q or Jarvan misses his E/Q combo, they can still gap close to you, smite you, use their AoE slows and apply red buff slow on you. And you basically have to flash or use your mobility spell (if you didn't already use it to dodge their first spell) or you die.

They bring too much. They have a collection of damage, durability, mobility and are good at all stages of the game, more spefically Jarvan. Jarvan is literally one of the best scaling junglers who can go full tank and bring amazing utility or go full damage and 100-0 your carries. They have extremely low cooldowns and are extremely punishing to immobile champions. How Lee Sin and Jarvans level 1 ults aren't at least 140 second + CDs go beyond me because if your flash is down, you literally can't lane at all until it's back up or you see them somewhere else.

Bottom line is this: they are both extremely oppressive junglers that basically have this option: even when outplaying them, they still get on top of you early and take half your health (which can be just as harsh as dying because of the exp and cs you'll miss). And mid game, these two, next to Vi, have some of the absolute best ganks that are about as close as guarantee you can get to being sure fire kills. They need significant nerfs, nerfs to the CDs on their ults and probably have their early damage toned down. They literally pay no price for their mobility and it's why they are so overbearing and oppressive to play against.

5 Comments

Kuroi861 votes

You say this, yet they don't scare me.

Why you ask?

Because I play like I should in lane.

Garen Malphite Renekton If I'm a lane dominant champ or someone that can slip away easily, why do I care if they gank? They will either not catch me, or I get an easy kill. The jungle nerfs mean it's easier than ever to have a level on the enemy jungler. Why fear them when you're practically fed already when they gank?

On the other hand. Sion Veigar Vladimir If I'm playing someone not so strong in lane, I sit back and focus on farming while staying safe. By the time they gank, I'm still under my turret and healthy, they have no choice but to dive and risk giving me a double because I'm farmed up and still ahead of the enemy jungle.

I hear a lot of cases where people die to junglers so easily, I can't help but wonder how. I've had Lee Sin dive behind my turret and try to ult me out to his laner, it didn't work lol, I was smart and kept myself safe despite Lee Sin. I can't help but wonder if this is more because people want to push when they shouldn't and complain about the jungler because they don't want to fess up to their mistake.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

You say this, yet they don't scare me.

Why you ask?

Because I play like I should in lane.

Garen Malphite Renekton If I'm a lane dominant champ or someone that can slip away easily, why do I care if they gank? They will either not catch me, or I get an easy kill. The jungle nerfs mean it's easier than ever to have a level on the enemy jungler. Why fear them when you're practically fed already when they gank?

On the other hand. Sion Veigar Vladimir If I'm playing someone not so strong in lane, I sit back and focus on farming while staying safe. By the time they gank, I'm still under my turret and healthy, they have no choice but to dive and risk giving me a double because I'm farmed up and still ahead of the enemy jungle.

I hear a lot of cases where people die to junglers so easily, I can't help but wonder how. I've had Lee Sin dive behind my turret and try to ult me out to his laner, it didn't work lol, I was smart and kept myself safe despite Lee Sin. I can't help but wonder if this is more because people want to push when they shouldn't and complain about the jungler because they don't want to fess up to their mistake.

There's so much wrong with this lol

Garen and Malphite are extremely easy to gank and while Renekton is a bit more difficult to get ahold of, he can still be ganked. And you can't possibly say "well just give up lane pressure and stay under tower and you're safe" is a reasonable argument. If you have to sacrifice lane pressure to that extent the entire game, there's a problem. And no offense, but good junglers know how to gank you even at tower early. I'm not sure you've really played with good junglers.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

Garen is not easy to gank.

He's naturally incredibly durable and his Q which is on a low cooldown removes all slows and silences anyway he deems to hit them with. Not too mention his E hits hard early.

Garen may not have mobility but he is most defintiely not easy to gank. More than likely he will cause you and your jungler to blow summoners to kill him.

Kuroi861 votes

Just because you can run into lane with Garen, Malphite or Renekton doesn't mean you've pulled off a successful gank. I've lost count of the number of times I've walked away from Jarvan or Lee Sin because they think they just pulled off a gank by running into lane.

And you can't possibly say "well just give up lane pressure and stay under tower and you're safe" is a reasonable argument.

Actually I can, if I'm playing a champ with a weak early game and a beastly late game like those I mentioned before, then playing like a lane bully is going to do nothing but get me killed and ensure I lose lane. A weak early champ doesn't win lane, they carry games.

And no offense, but good junglers know how to gank you even at tower early.

That's funny, ganking someone who is still near full health under his tower when you know he's likely going to CC and kill you doesn't sound like a very good idea.

I'm not sure you've really played with good junglers.

No, it sounds like you're using bad laning as proof that junglers are overpowered.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Just because you can run into lane with Garen, Malphite or Renekton doesn't mean you've pulled off a successful gank. I've lost count of the number of times I've walked away from Jarvan or Lee Sin because they think they just pulled off a gank by running into lane.

Actually I can, if I'm playing a champ with a weak early game and a beastly late game like those I mentioned before, then playing like a lane bully is going to do nothing but get me killed and ensure I lose lane. A weak early champ doesn't win lane, they carry games.

That's funny, ganking someone who is still near full health under his tower when you know he's likely going to CC and kill you doesn't sound like a very good idea.

No, it sounds like you're using bad laning as proof that junglers are overpowered.

Again, there's not much for me to say here...I'm going to come off as an elitist but what you're playing against isn't good. I probably didn't explain this well enough, but I don't mean directly under tower. And I don't know who you're playing against that doesn't get any sort of damage on your early unless you completely zone yourself for CS until the wave is under your tower (which is incredibly stupid). You don't spend an entire game under tower as a weak laner, even during your weak phase you'll be extended just enough to be ganked at some point: good junglers capitalize on this.

Warding only helps so much, both of them can basically come straight through lane and gank you if they want.

And if I am weaker early, sure I'm going to play more passively but as I noted, I'm not going to 100% be under tower the entire time. And I'm not so sure how you can call my laning bad when I ward up and have the awareness to see ganks coming by vision and by reading my enemies aggression.

More from Gameplay

More by HateDaddy