Let's talk - Runaan's Hurricane

Kowe The Ewok··9 votes·4,443 views

The item: item 3085 70 % Attackspeed UNIQUE PASSIVE: Your basic attacks fire minor bolts at 2 nearby targets, each dealing 10 (+ 50% AD) physical damage and applying on-hit effects.

Build out of: 2* Dagger 450g 1* Recurve Bow 900g Cost: 2400 (600 Combination)

Discussion: While this item sounds good on paper it feels rather impractical in actual gameplay. It's a medium cost item which only is (87.5%) cost efficient. It focusses on a single stat, ASP, which also is widely available on other items which also feature better secondary stats like crit chance and movement speed item 3086 (and upgrades).

It's can't crit but procs on hit effects which might make people consider it in combination with item 3153. Sadly this combination also is far from practical since it lacks flat AD as well as crit chance which means that it's horribly inefficient when used against squishy champions.

There's a limited amount of character who should in theory make good use of it Kayle (E)Twitch (Ultimate) , or possibly Caitlyn (Headshot) or Jinx (rockets). Sadly theory and actual gameplay differ a lot, resulting in a situation where Kayle is the only one of these four who really can make practical use of it since she does significantly benefit from attackspeed, yet not at all from crit or attackspeed which carries urgently need.

Conclusion: The idea behind this items feels good, but the item itself feels horribly impractical. So what are your thoughts on this item and it's current state in the game?

76 Comments

KidSpectre9 votes

It's definitely niche. You would have to literally build around its passive for it to be worth it.

Let's use Caitlyn for example.

Build: item 3252 item 3085 item 3031 item 3087 item 3072 item 3035 (if really trying for the optimal Runaan's build, go item 3071 instead. If for some reason the enemy has no armor, take item 3508 )

*Okay, so what does this give us? ** --Increased headshot stacks, --increased statikk shiv charges, --and more lifesteal targets in a fight. --If going Black Cleaver, it means distributed armor shred, which can help other physical dps champs on your team, --and Essence Reaver will help you regen mana faster, as well as more lifesteal.

*Probably. Have yet to actually confirm this, but it IS an on-hit effect, so it should work.

Trade offs? --Lower Critical Chance (single target dps) --Difficult to build early (lower early damage compared to typical build paths) --Relies on having multiple targets to be most effective.

These are big things. The full Runaan's build doesn't have trouble putting out damage. It's getting it in the first place, and dealing with the diminished dueling power that is the problem. You also can not benefit the most from it unless you are attacking a group. However, on the flip side, your AoE dps goes up drastically. You'll be at Sivir-Tier levels of wave clearing, and you'll be able to distribute more damage in teamfights. It also technically ups your survival ability, due to lifestealing off three targets (even if the secondary bolts are half damage).

Ultimately, it will be up to you to decide whether or not Runaan's is an effective purchase. It doesn't fit every build, and it can be difficult to work with until you reach full build. It is a niche pick, but if you are confident in your skills, it can be a viable one in the right circumstances.

Sir Bulldog1 votes

I completely agree. Good analysis. Personally i only get Runaan's on Kayle for her E.

Kowe The Ewok9 votes

I feel it's problematic that most ASP items have inbuild crit. There are barely (no?) viable crit items without ASP other than item 3031 itself. If item 3123 had a viable upgrade it might work wounders with item 3085

Worgslarg3 votes

This.

The only good crit items(IE non withstanding) are shiv and phantomdancer. They both provide attack speed. If runan's does not get changed to have some crit, the AS bonus will remain uncompetetive because you will go over the AS cap in trying to use runans and get enough crit.

Sightless662 votes

I'm not sure I agree. If I'm going for a crit heavy build, then I'm not going to want Huricane because it doesn't work with any points of crit I have. I'd have to able to almost max out on crit without it for it to be a good attack speed item. I mean, if I have 50% crit from AD items and I need attack speed, then why would I build Hurricane over a PD for more crit? PD would function with the crit I already have. In fact, I'd need PD earlier to maximize my dps because I'd need attack speed to work with the AD and crit, and PD or Shiv would just be stronger earlier. It's much more suited to non-crit builds that work off of raw AD and lifesteal or on-hit damage. I think higher support for those builds should be added. In particular, if a low-crit CDR/AD build for the caster carries like Graves and Varus worked, I could see getting Hurricane with that.

Sukishoo7 votes

Teemo . You forgot Teemo

Earl Eulrich4 votes

I think it actually is a strong buy for a very specific niche - and therefor good design. If it would be appealing in a broad variety of Situations I really would be alarmed. I think we actually need more such items that are very niche, instead of universal buys like Randuins or Rabadons and such.

The only thing that really is kinda missing atm is to have more on-hit-effects that work with Runaan´s to make on-hit a real alternative as dps-build to Crit (aside from a few choosen champs it´s already working fairly well with). And maybe finally an on-hit-item that doesn´t feature AS itself, sth. that needs other items to scale but is finally slot-efficient.

kunkudunk2 votes

Exactly, it gives wave clear and can turn certain marksmen into aoe team fight beasts. However, it will see more success on a premade team that build around your aoe adc build since you won't be a single target dps machine as much with it.

SerBlaise4 votes

the lack of crit is the trade-off for being able to hit THREE Targets at once. Hurricane can decimate an entire team; I've seen a kayle or teemo or trist do it. I think its fine as is.

Kuroi864 votes

The item is niche, it's meant to be. It's meant for on-hit builds (Yes, Riot supports the use of on-hit builds, they aren't viable in pro play but Riot likes breaking the meta a lot more than people think.) and for this purpose it serves perfectly. On-hit builds don't always have a lot of attack speed depending on what you go for, but with this one item, you can have all the attack speed you need in one item.

Duke Anax2 votes

Actually pro Kalye players recently defaulted to the on hit runaans build.

insaiyanbacca2 votes

also item 3085 is incredibly effective on KogMaw with a item 3153

Kuroi861 votes

Outside of Runaan's and Nashor's and maybe something with life steal, I've no clue what that is lol.

Duke Anax1 votes

Actually that's it, Nashor's, Runaan's, AP

Personally I take Gunblade

Kuroi861 votes

Ah, so the same build I've been using on Kayle since I got her lol.

Duke Anax1 votes

Yep same, just took them that long to notice (;

Kuroi863 votes

I think a lot of people underestimate gunblade on hybrid scaling champs.

ceaselessphantom3 votes

I do not think you should be listing Caitlyn here. Her passive's only use is to help her win trades in lane. Dedicating an item slot to it is just stupid.

The problem with it on adcs is not that it does not crit. This is dis-proven since both Jinx and Twitch can get crits from it. The problem is that adcs have to focus those in the front line.

Edit Furthermore the enemy team's backline is to squishy to have use of the aoe before they die. The problem is the aoe it itself since the purpose of adcs is only to kill the hardest to kill thing on the enemy team.

Kowe The Ewok3 votes

I do not think you should be listing Caitlyn here. Her passive's only use is to help her win trades in lane. Dedicating an item slot to it is just stupid.

The problem with it on adcs is not that it does not crit. This is dis-proven since both Jinx and Twitch can get crits from it. The problem is that adcs have to focus those in the front line.

Edit Furthermore the enemy team's backline is to squishy to have use of the aoe before they die. The problem is the aoe it itself since the purpose of adcs is only to kill the hardest to kill thing on the enemy team.

Well, I already mentioned that it's usually not worth the effort. But standing in a bush and actually hitting 3 enemies with Runaan's DOES grant you nice damage on Cait.

ceaselessphantom2 votes

Well, I already mentioned that it's usually not worth the effort. But standing in a bush and actually hitting 3 enemies with Runaans DOES grant you nice damage on Cait.

It would do more for Miss Fortune. Out of all the adcs with an on-hit bonus Caitlyn is the second worst candidate for Runaan's. (The first is Vayne since her on-hit is not effected by hurricane.)

Sir Bulldog1 votes

Furthermore the enemy team's backline is to squishy to have use of the aoe before they die. The problem is the aoe it itself since the purpose of adcs is only to kill the hardest to kill thing on the enemy team.

Ummm....no the adc does not kill the hardest to kill thing (the tank). He will most likely have a thorn-mail which means you do more damage to yourself than you do to him.

ceaselessphantom1 votes

Furthermore the enemy team's backline is to squishy to have use of the aoe before they die. The problem is the aoe it itself since the purpose of adcs is only to kill the hardest to kill thing on the enemy team.

Ummm....no the adc does not kill the hardest to kill thing (the tank). He will most likely have a thorn-mail which means you do more damage to yourself than you do to him.

Oh so than who does kill the tank?

Sir Bulldog1 votes

Your whole team kills the tank after everyone else is dead. Focus a tank at the start of a fight. Hmm..... Why am I dying? Oh because I was hitting the big guy while their adc was wrecking my face . Gg

ceaselessphantom1 votes

Your whole team kills the tank after everyone else is dead. Focus a tank at the start of a fight. Hmm..... Why am I dying? Oh because I was hitting the big guy while their adc was wrecking my face . Gg

Tell LCS players their back line should ignore the enemy front line than. See where it gets you.

BakugoBestBoy3 votes

Nowhere here did I see anyone mention building this item on someone it's worth a d@mn on other than Kayle? Runans is good on champions that have built in on hit effects. That's who it's targeted at. You build it on Kayle to stack her E and Passive, You build it on Teemo to stack your E, you build it on Varus to get blight stacks on multiple targets and line up a team crushing Ult/Q/E. So Lol made a niche Item that only works on like 4-5 champions. If Rammus were here he would say "Ok".

Sightless661 votes

It should be good on champions with on-hit, but in practice I usually find that it isn't as good as my other options. I build it on Kayle, but I rarely build it on teemo because the single target burst and shroom damage is usually much more valuable (although to be fair, he does have good builds that use it well, and I think I'd usually get it eventually if I wasn't just split pushing), and I never build it on Varus as anything except a 65 minute replacement for my Shiv because distributing blight stacks just doesn't do enough damage compared to single-target dps (not to mention that it's much less reliable because you can't always use huricane extra attacks and you can't guarantee procs). It's much more like gunblade in that it works well on one (maybe 2) champions and is kind of ok but usually outclassed on like 2-3 other champions. On-hit stuff just isn't supported enough, so even the champions who could theoretically use the on-hit don't really use it that well in practice. It's not so much that it's good with on-hit champions as that it's kind of usable on on-hit champions and completely unbuildable on anyone else.

Jungle Lux God3 votes

I think the theory of the damage behind this item is a lot stronger than people think because it serves a niche that ADC's don't fully appreciate.

There are two important things to note about Runaan's that make it worth considering over other items: it give more attack speed than any other item in the game, and it has a passive that essentially allows you to attack two targets at the same time, each dealing 50% of the damage that you would normally deal, and applying on-ht effects.

The passive is, in particular, a good point to look at. Each of the bolts deals 50% of the damage you normally deal on per bolt, meaning that you essentially deal 100% of your auto attack damage every time you auto attack someone with at least two allies near them, and when you count your auto attack, you essentially deal 200% of your auto attack damage every time you auto attack. Since 200% of your auto attack damage is how much damage you deal on crits(without IE, at least), that means that, with Runaan's Hurricane, you essentially have 100% crit chance, but your crit damage is split between three targets. If you take on-hit builds, that number skyrockets to 300% damage on each auto attack because your biggest damage source is your on-hit effects, not your physical damage.

What does this mean in practice?

If you build Runaan's Hurricane, then you need to build around it, not shove it onto your normal ADC build. Traditional ADCs only build one attack speed item and Berserker's Greaves. If you buy a Phantom Dancer, then you have a total of 75% bonus attack speed, while Statikk Shiv gives 65%, while on more bursty builds with Blade of the Ruined King and Youmu's Ghostblade, you would have 40% attack speed passively (65% with boots) and 80% when Youmu's is activated (105% with boots). Runaan's would have no place on the burst build, but on the traditional build it could work. Let's take a look.

If you replace it on a normal ADC build, you may be better off trading out your berserker's greaves for either a more defensive boot pick, or maybe you want to pick up Boots of Swiftness to account for the movement speed you lose between trading out the Zeal-based items for a Hurricane. This would leave you within a range of attack speed that you would normally have on your traditional ADC build.

But what is an ADC without damage? With less crit chance due to taking Runaan's over Zeals, Infinity Edge becomes a less attractive buy because you don't have the crit chance to consistently apply the crit damage passive, so that inherently leaves it out of a Runaan's build. That us with a few options for damage items, but they can be considered pretty notable. The Bloodthirster, Essense Reaver, Last Whisper, and Black Cleaver can all potentially take a slot for your damage item, Blade of the Ruined King and Frozen Mallet can push you onto more to the on-hit effects of these items, while Mercurial Scimitar and Hexdrinker/Maw provide a more defensive approach to your item build. With these factors, the ideal build would most likely be: Bloodthirster, Runaan's, Scimitar, Whisper/Cleaver, your choice of boots, and your choice of defensive item (Banshee's, GA, etc.). This build inherently trades damage in duels for AoE damage in teamfights and a little bit of extra tankiness due to applying lifesteal on multiple targets and the ability to run tank boots in your build, but is it worth it? It's just a theory.

The other notable build to try Runaan's on is to incorporate it as an attack speed item onto a modifies blue build, with Muramana, Essense Reaver, and Runaan's Hurricane being the three core items. The theory behind the blue build is that you have the mana refund on Essense Reaver to apply infinite Muramana procs, the the idea behind Runaan's is the apply the on-hit effect to the entire enemy team. Combine this with a third damage item (which can now include something like IGB with the Muramana passive), your choice of boots, and a defensive item, and you should have a pretty solid build. Does that mean it's good? It's just a theory.

Worgslarg3 votes

You make a good point that by taking runans as an AS build, you lose out on the crit needed to make IE a good buy.

And the fact is, an IE crit build is simply the best ADC build around( corki/ez excluded)

Drunk Rummate3 votes

imagine how good runaans would be if we could build 7 items tho.

The ReV x3 votes

The hurrican is a must for my TEEMO build. item 3089 item 3085 item 3040 item 3116 item 3157 item 3258

With that build, you are a very versatile unit to your team, you have a ton of damage in team fights, and can be an amazing pusher.

Most of the time with this build, you can split plush pretty fast while you team fights with out you. Even if your team loses the fight, you could have potentially pushed all the way to an inhibitor.

I see this item very useful for any ranged AP Champ, as for an AD champ, I can't really say since I've never gone Hurrican with anyone AD.

-Rev

Sire Hippington3 votes

ap+as without nashor=fail

Forest Gem1 votes

I agree. Runaan's a main part of my Teemo build as well. I build for AS when I do Teemo. This is my standard Teemo build: item 3085 item 3006 item 3087 item 3069 item 3068 item 3046

That's what works for me, since I can easily poke and have a better chance of landing a ton of damage on my opponents. Not to mention how quickly I can clear minions and turrets with it. Honestly, it makes him that much more annoying.

Pika3103 votes

Oh my goodness, this has got to be one of the worst Teemo builds I've ever seen... Rev X's build is pretty bad too.

Like Don says, Nashor's Tooth has to be the staple item on Teemo hand's down with very few exceptions. Since we're discussing Hurricane, it works on Teemo's on-hit builds. As necessary or whatever allows, I'll also include these on-hits to further emphasize the AoE: item 3153 item 3151 item 3091 and on rarer occasion a few others for even more niche scenarios. It needs to be remembered that Teemo is one of the most flexible champions, able to adapt to any scenario building AD, AP, Bruiser, even tank as necessary.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Liandriels doesn't work on on-hits, it'S only good on ap/magicoen builts for maximum Shroom damage

Sightless661 votes

It may not help the on-hit builds much, but it gives a massive amount of damage to the Shrooms by itself and it's not bad with the Q, so it's worth building on almost any Teemo unless you're like straight AD. I do agree that I wouldn't build it with bork.

Sire Hippington2 votes

it does do nic damage on shrooms, but if u plan to go on-hit u have other items to get first, like item 3115 item 3085 item 3089 item 3091 , u might want it as lastitem, but i prefer either item 3001 oritem 3022

@Duke Anax: nope, item 3151 does not proc on the E-dot

Duke Anax1 votes

It does work indirectly, not on the on-hit, but on the applied poison.

Sire Hippington3 votes

I think the item currently got three main problems: -lack of fiting items, there are simply not enoigh relevant on-hit items, especially for no-ap -Crit is to dominant at the moment, pushing aside all optional dps builts -The main power of the item(up to 100% more dmage, 200% for on-hit), but the targeting is on a rather low aoe and totally random.

-no-ms, unlike nearly anny other as-item

Solutions -Simply ad more options for on-hit, especially magiacl on-hit like good ol' Madrets -Finaly tone down Crit(and rework it to no-RNG on the long run) -Icnrease the aoe from 375 around the maintarget to 400 around maintarget aswell as around ur self, let secondary bolts focus on champions if the maintarget is a champion.

-ad some ms(and increase costs abit), or make new on-hit-item that gives ms

urgotdangit2 votes

I'd rather see them re-budget this to damage/crit with NO attack speed. Like build it out of Pickaxe, Short Sword, and Cloak of Agility. The melee alternative (Hydra) is WORLDS better, albeit more expensive. But it also has no AS, and is quite popular. This could be like a cheaper alternative to IE, or the same cost, but less damage split between more people. Does that make sense?

doubleguac5 votes

I'd rather see them re-budget this to damage/crit with NO attack speed. Like build it out of Pickaxe, Short Sword, and Cloak of Agility. The melee alternative (Hydra) is WORLDS better, albeit more expensive. But it also has no AS, and is quite popular. This could be like a cheaper alternative to IE, or the same cost, but less damage split between more people. Does that make sense?

In my opinion, crit chance doesn't make a lot of sense on the item, since you're mostly buying it for the passive, and the passive doesn't synergize with crit chance.

The item has a lot of issues that have already been mentioned. In my opinion, one of its biggest problems is that it's impossible for many champions to take full advantage of what it really offers.

The passive is highly unreliable in team fights. It is, however, a totally reliable source of heavy pushing power. It lets you tear through creep waves like a demon on meth.

That being said, there are very few champions who benefit from the stat line and who can safely split push. Sending your ADC to push a wave alone in the mid/late game is asking for trouble. ADCs make for horrible split pushers.

One of the few decent split pushers who actually benefits from the stats and passive is teemo. But teemo is an only decent split pusher at best, because all of his on-hit effects aren't applied to towers. He's relatively safe, and kills creeps fast, but any of the real top tier split pushers (nasus, trynd, Yi) will kill a turret two or three times as fast as him late game.

One of the major sources of power on the item (pushing) would only really be useful on a ranged AD split pusher. The closest we've ever come to that is Nidalee, but her AD build got curb-stomped by the balance team, and even in her prime, there were always better items for her to build.

The "melee version" of the item, Ravenous Hydra, is an example of this niche filled right. It gives a ton of split pushing power, while offering stats that are attractive to champions who want to and are good at split pushing. Also, the active, passive, and stat line are far more reliably useful in team fights.

Tiax2 votes

"ADCs make for horrible split pushers"

Tell Doublelift that

AFK Push2 votes

I feel like it is only good as a near to last by on an adc who builds item 3153 and item 3087 first, or maybe even a item 3078. Basically it is only good with adc's who love on hit and AS. The problem is that only somebody like KogMaw, Varus, or maybe Twitch can truly benefit from this build.

In short item 3085 is only good with multiple other on hit items being built first.

Sir Bulldog2 votes

That's the point. If you build it, you have to build items around it. It's a niche choice, that is solely up to the player.

S0NA2 votes

Agreed with everything OP said except he forgot to add Teemo to the champs that can use it.

Ale non è male2 votes

The problem is that item 3085 lacks a MS bonus that should be higher than Statik and PD MS bonus to make it a powerful AS + MS item(NOT putting crit in it) You can decide to trade uncertain damage spikes(aka crit chance) for a bit lower but sure dps(higher AS, which means more hits which means more damage) according to the champ design, but the thing that make it unviable when put in comparison with the other AS items for ADC, is the complete lack of MS that an AD carry NEED for positioning, last hitting, chasing/escaping Put into the item a MS bonus in 7-9% range and the item becomes viable It would be simple to do, if just Riot wanted...

Worgslarg1 votes

I would say make it give ~20% crit, and reduce the AS to 50%.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Hm, does it proc Viktor's Q 3 times?

Duke Anax1 votes

It does. Once per target though. But he can stack in on all of them and detonate with his AoE.

Kahti2 votes

Viktor not Varus

Duke Anax2 votes

dunno why i always confuse the two...

As for Viktor it is not proced thrice. It's an "on next attack", while Runaan is three consecutive attacks. It only affects the first, which is always the main one.

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