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“I can’t move my character”

HateDaddy··27 votes·10,913 views

Go watch any stream where someone is playing a melee champion and you will undoubtedly hear this several times. The fact of the matter is that CC is totally out of control in this game. CC is something that should’ve been largely only introduced into tank kits but now practically everything has it. And while there aren’t very many long lasting CC spells anymore, the fact is that chain-ccing literally requires no effort at this point.

Something has to be done. There needs to be a diminishing effect on chain ccing a single target. Having the capacity taken away to actually control my character makes me not want to play this game at all. It’s not an enjoyable experience for the enemy team to not even need to use ultimate abilities to keep me in place, they can do it for everyone. And no, CC abundance is not a counter to mobility abundance because once you lock up a target, their mobility doesn’t mean anything. And even if that were true, one wrong doesn’t excuse another. And at the very least, mobile champions allow you to actually play the damn game because you can actually move.

There are some things in place now that can make cc less effective and certainly mercs do help some, but they don’t do nearly enough. And while there are runes that can add tenacity, this really only works when you get far ahead - and at that point, is cc really gonna matter? It can, but chances are that it won’t.

So please, for the love of god, systematically change chain cc. Don’t introduce some dumb item that adcs or assassins will abuse, make a systematic change that reduce its effectiveness then make tweaks where necessary.

38 Comments

Moody P13 votes

only for tanks

No, and cringe, even marksmen should have some hard CC tbh

the real truth is that CC needs to be reverted to high duration high cool down and/or almost strictly relegated to ultimate spells. The shift to low duration but low cool down combined with CDR abundance makes it impossible to move because it's borderline spammable now. There is NO thought that goes into most CC today because you can just radiate slows and snares and if you missed it will be up in ~3-6 seconds late game anyway

FSRER3 votes

But then, we get adcs with cc like Vayne who can cc you and then burst you dont, having or not having any armor on ya.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

But then, we get adcs with cc like Vayne who can cc you and then burst you dont, having or not having any armor on ya.

Condemn is probably one of the fairer CC's in the game.

  • It's Single target.
  • She has to get into a dangerous range to be able to cast it (550)
  • It has a VERY HIGH mana cost (90)
  • It has a VERY HIGH cooldown (20 seconds) and the champion does not itemize CDR.

Unfair and counterplay lacking CC instantly brings Nasus W to mind.

  • Cripples your movement speed to the point you're more a less rooted so good luck "kiting" him.
  • Removes over half of your total attack speed so good luck trying to fight him.
  • SUPER LOW COOLDOWN
  • He can chain cast it once he has enough CDR.

Another case of unfair and counterplay lacking CC is the Glacial Augment + item 3030 item 3905 combination.

y0r1ck2 votes

{quoted}

Condemn is probably one of the fairer CC's in the game.

  • It's Single target.

  • She has to get into a dangerous range to be able to cast it (550)

  • It has a VERY HIGH mana cost (90)

  • It has a VERY HIGH cooldown (20 seconds) and the champion does not itemize CDR.

Unfair and counterplay lacking CC instantly brings Nasus W to mind.

  • Cripples your movement speed to the point you're more a less rooted so good luck "kiting" him.

  • Removes over half of your total attack speed so good luck trying to fight him.

  • SUPER LOW COOLDOWN

  • He can chain cast it once he has enough CDR.

Another case of unfair and counterplay lacking CC is the Glacial Augment + item 3030 item 3905 combination.

Counterplay lacking cc??? Do you play this game? If you do you'd know that there's this item, that completely counters Nasus slow. All you have to do is press a button. WOW!

Yorick wall stops the other two slows in their tracks. Fiora can ignore them. GP can cleanse them. Yi can ignore them. Zac can jump away. Zilean can outrun them. Tanks can eat the slows for their adcs. Braum stops them.

You're just hoping to capitalize on the newest buzzword, and it lets me know not to listen to you.

WoonStruck1 votes

So you have to have effective immunity to slows to counter it? Seems pretty silly to me. "Just dodge it bro"

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Problem with Nasus W is the fact that lategame it has like 6 seconds cooldown while cleanse has 90 seconds.

He can just walk back out of marksman range, then go back in and throw it again.

Its part of the forced attempt to make Nasus a lategame champ but it only really makes him oppressive midgame <.<

Tr4shB4NSYST3M1 votes

Wait, are you seriously bringing up item 3140 which has a 2 minute (or 1 min 30 sec, i dont remember) cooldown as a counter no nasus W which even with no cdr has a 20sec cooldown?

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL that is some Olympic level mental gymnastics right there fella.

y0r1ck2 votes

{quoted}

Wait, are you seriously bringing up item 3140 which has a 2 minute (or 1 min 30 sec, i dont remember) cooldown as a counter no nasus W which even with no cdr has a 20sec cooldown?

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL that is some Olympic level mental gymnastics right there fella.

Another person I get to ignore.

LordGeovanni1 votes

CC needs higher cooldowns but that cant happen when those champions also rely on the same spells for damage and damage spells are already currently half the cooldown of the long cooldown cc's in the game. damage spells also need way higher cooldowns and mobility spells on ranged champions need the highest non ult cooldowns of spells in the game

Sassmast3r1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7iu90wej,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-25T19:29:19.630+0000)

No, and cringe, even marksmen should have some hard CC tbh

the real truth is that CC needs to be reverted to high duration high cool down and/or almost strictly relegated to ultimate spells. The shift to low duration but low cool down combined with CDR abundance makes it impossible to move because it's borderline spammable now. There is NO thought that goes into most CC today because you can just radiate slows and snares and if you missed it will be up in ~3-6 seconds late game anyway

Karma's Q has a nice 3 second cooldown with 40% CDR, something attainable in about 10 minutes with Frostfang, Forbidden Idol, Fiendish Codex, and Transcendence :)

If you really want to have some nice spammable slows, get Cosmic Insight.

Tr4shB4NSYST3M1 votes

Exactly moody, basic trading pattern for mages with CC nowadays is 1-Throw out CC ability (b/c the CD on it doesn't matter), if it hits Win the trade easily, if it misses back off.

Its led to some of the most un-interactive gameplay, especially in ranged vs melee matchups.

Mordepool7 votes

Tenacity = useless.

What's the difference between

without tenacity : Get cc'd and Die

With Tenacity : Get cc'd and Die

If the Result is the same ( which it is 95+% of the time) The difference is the Gold wasted on a Fucking USELESS Stat.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Its not always useless though, i find it very helpful when the enemy lacks displacement CC.....the rare times i do play melee.

Saevum5 votes

Checked again your smurf account, the one that you posted. The Shaco on enemy team is probably a smurf. Can't entirely tell if the account is being Elo boosted. But one thing is for sure, Shaco has a really small playerbase, and this Gold guy is doing a massacre.

Currently he has a 83% WR with Shaco (he also sustained a 83% WR on S8). No other of the champs in that account are being used. The account is about to jump to Plat IV.

Now, about the thread.

CC, specially knock-ups need to be put aside. There are so many knock-ups already. Riot should go for new forms of cc with counterplay, like the Fiora approach, that if she parries a CC ability, her W can CC back. Well, maybe not entirely like that, but you get the idea. Oh, wait! Or the Braum approach, yea this one is a better. Heatlhy CC with counterplay around it. And it can be QSS on top of it.

They should really avoid the CC a la Kench. If anything.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

Checked again your smurf account, the one that you posted. The Shaco on enemy team is probably a smurf. Can't entirely tell if the account is being Elo boosted. But one thing is for sure, Shaco has a really small playerbase, and this Gold guy is doing a massacre.

Currently he has a 83% WR with Shaco (he also sustained a 83% WR on S8). No other of the champs in that account are being used. The account is about to jump to Plat IV.

Eh, he was likely just a lowly diamond player, he was really not that great with box placements. While there aren’t huge differences between these elos on NA and LAN, one thing I’ve noticed is that teams are far more unbalanced and that’s likely due to smaller server population. The shaco was just a solid player stomping bad players on a champion that people with poor gameplay understanding don’t know how to capitalize against. I also tried to force a few fights to stop some bleeding and nobody followed up, so it really led to shaco snowballing.

Honestly, I played really bad that game and I still probably played the best on my team. I tend to have bad scores when I lose because I’m not going to wait for people to fuck up when it’s clear they won’t, I’ll look to make plays and if I die, I die. And that’s more or less what happened against their team.

Now, about the thread.

CC, specially knock-ups need to be put aside. There are so many knock-ups already. Riot should go for new forms of cc with counterplay, like the Fiora approach, that if she parries a CC ability, her W can CC back. Well, maybe not entirely like that, but you get the idea. Oh, wait! Or the Braum approach, yea this one is a better. Heatlhy CC with counterplay around it. And it can be QSS on top of it.

They should really avoid the CC a la Kench. If anything.

Champions like Braum can be problematic because his CC becomes spammable and just ends up being anti-melee but in general, I think his kit is fine and serves a good role.

Clone Is Friend1 votes

ok. where did anyone get a shaco player here?

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Clone with Crocs,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7iu90wej,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-26T10:35:13.176+0000)

ok. where did anyone get a shaco player here?

He’s talking about a game I played in on my LAN account

Hayaishi25 votes

Tbh i think it has to do more with the fact damage is r%%%%%ed and CDR is way too abundant than with chain CC on its own.

With CDR being pretty much everywhere there isn't really any thought into how to use it. You just hit whoever you can and it will be worth it, there's no need to save CC for priority targets since you can blow up whoever gets hit because tanks don't exist anymore.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Yes slapping CDR onto everything without literally nerfing every dmg and CC ability by basically the same amount has made this game so fuckin garbage and people don't realize it.

When a vlad has two seconds CD on his Q at rank 5 and keeps spamming 500 dmg/200 heal nukes every 2 seconds.

Vlad is just an example here. DPS champs in lategame should rain supreme when everyone is durable but since everyone thanks to CDR does sustained burst dmg it doesn't work anymore as it is supposed to be. Hence why ADCs need to deal burst per auto instead of dmg per auto.

WoonStruck1 votes

Vlad has almost always functioned like that. Him building CDR and spamming abilities is nothing new, even before CDR was slapped on everything and before his rework. He doesn't have mobility or CC, basically, so he's one of the fairer champs in that regard. The only unfair thing about him is how safe he is.

A better example is AD assassins who build pen and spam abilities so there's no point in avoiding tanks for them while still instantly popping squishies.

Nanuk Pihoqahiak1 votes

I love how you think this is something new to Vlad. Before when we had seals / marks / glyphs, Vladimir would often use scaling CDR runes to reach CDR cap in conjunction with things like CDR boots.

Verxint5 votes

Riot designed themselves into a corner by homogenizing how things work. Everything is ultimately countered by either CC and diving or CC and kiting, so you have to create a world where its possible to catch Yasuo or Vayne but it's still viable to play Garen or Ashe when the exact same tools are used to stop both of them.

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

Go watch any stream where someone is playing a melee champion and you will undoubtedly hear this several times.

I can assure you ranged champs don't suddenly ignore all CC. This whole melee elitist thing is worse than melee elitists in smash lmao.

I'd agree that CC'd to death happens more often these days. But this pathetic ass attitude of players who for some petty reason only play melee champs is so off putting at this point.

Moody P6 votes

Range has an undeniable and noticeeably easier time avoiding most CC

but don't let that stop you from arguing a point he didn't make lul

Daddy Ants2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7iu90wej,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-04-26T11:21:53.020+0000)

Range has an undeniable and noticeeably easier time avoiding most CC

but don't let that stop you from arguing a point he didn't make lul

Most ranged champions especially ADC's can't afford to take things like Mercury Treads, Legend Tenacity unlike Melee.

Taking those on a Melee champion most of the time doesn't affect your overall power.

Legend Alacrity/Bloodline/ Attack Speed boots are huge power gains for Marksmen and other attack speed/lifesteal reliant champions.

Moody P2 votes

that doesn't change that its basically inevitable as a melee especially an immobile one that you're going to be eating CC

Stacking tenacity is basically necessary and it can still be rendered useless against displacements or spammable enough crowd control

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

And melee's don't suffer anything by missing out on alacrity which is 15% dmg you lose ? Or lifesteal from bloodline? Melees basically have to go tenacity in most matchups. For marksmen it is beneficial that they DONT have to go tenacity and can instead opt into more DPS because they have the advantage of being ranged. What a fuckin joke of this community trying to make it look like ranged is actually a weakness in a game with zero penalties to being ranged on top of them having better scaling, better and cheaper items.

Tenacity has shitty returns considering that the most prominent CC which is airborne effects isn't even affected by it and stacking it as i said has shitty returns.

Mavëríck2 votes

Sems pretty simple if you ask me;

the less damage you do, the more point and click your cc is

if you do tons of damage, your cc if any should be a hard to hit skillshot.

Ionshatter1 votes

Neeko begs to differ. CC is a very wide skillshot yhat is not only fast, but goes through 3 minions, and if she manages to land it you instantly die with any support, especially bot lane. Neekos q does something like 200 damage per burst level 3.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

There needs to be a diminishing effect on chain ccing a single target.

Yeahhh no. We dont see diminishing on single target damage so why should we see in hard cc? I know that playing a melee and getting stun/displaced-locked to death sucks ass, lately im playing a lot of ornn i still remember where i cced a nasus to death in which said duration i was able to melt him (with assistance ofc). But currently its the only way to deal with some, problems to say the least. If you put diminishing effects then good luck killing someone like nasus if he gets ahead.

However what moodyP proposes is actually quite good. Higher cd higher duration. Maybe not every champ. But as a concept is fairly solid.

RipReviveFkRito1 votes

item 3078 item 3065 Nasus W you were saying?

Warpes1 votes

Lol whenever I say this, it's because minion block is so bad and I'm playing someone like Singed and literally get locked in place by only 4 minions with one on each side of me.

But apparently the current minion block mechanics are "healthy" for this game and don't need fixing.

y0r1ck1 votes

{quoted}

Lol whenever I say this, it's because minion block is so bad and I'm playing someone like Singed and literally get locked in place by only 4 minions with one on each side of me.

But apparently the current minion block mechanics are "healthy" for this game and don't need fixing.

Try playing a stacked chogath... at that point it's like I'm playing around another enemy lol

PaffWasTaken1 votes

Thought the thread was about creep block at first lol

KoggyStyle1 votes

Just pink the spea........ wait they removed pinks where our counter play to 2-6 second cc spam! am i supposed to spec precision / resolve item 2138 item 3139 item 3053 item 3111 on every champ?

Hemulen Magi1 votes

I think CC is alright currently, but immobile champions should be tankier to be able to survive longer so that they don't implode during 2 seconds of CC during a teamfight. Dumping single target CC on a tanky champion in a full on teamfight should feel like a mistake almost all of the time because it should be impossible to burst down tanky champions during a couple CC.

EthanAttacks1 votes

I like the idea of making chain ccing a single target less effective. Sounds like it might actually benefit the game! I would just like to know how it would/should be nerfed though. Maybe give a recently cced target some temporary Tenacity? Just an idea. For now though, while it's giving you problems, I suggest buying items to counter it if it's giving you too much trouble in game, like QSS, Mercs, or Banshee's. Not saying to, "sUcK iT Up aNd DeAl wItH iT," Just some ideas to counter it for now while there's no nerfs in sight to chain CC.

MasterDClone1 votes

AH here they come, were moving away from anti damage and into anti tanks territory, i love how the boards always come full circle

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