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Another game, another khazix ganking top lane at 2:40 w/ doubles and full health lvl 3

Rexxiee··62 votes·3,901 views

Would be nice if top laners could actually get to fking lvl 3 before getting ass blasted by junglers.

I remember when ganks were much harder to pull off and riskier, now its just kill both buffs + a camp and walk top lane for free 400/300g and snowball, if you blow a flash but dont get the kill sit in a bush until the other top laner tries to play the game and then kill him, 6 minutes in come back, dive the top and take fb tower, and thus removing him from the game and pretty much winning the lane for your top, unless you get counter ganked by their jungler that is (basically the top laner himself can do nothing, other than hope his jungler will do the same).

The fact that you can lose top lane like that because the other jungler came top lvl 3 and yours didnt is completely absurd.

This has to stop, its time to make it so junglers actually lose health clearing early game so going for such early games ganks is riskier (junglers should need to base before ganking if they want to gank at full health after killing both buffs, just like it used to be), also nerf the first clear exp so no more of lvl3 junglers 2:30 minutes into the game, or idk do anything, enough with junglers ruining the top lane experience.

102 Comments

Handin Out Naps21 votes

I feel like a ward can prevent this.

AirKingNeo8 votes

goes to ward

either gets all ined by lane opponent or ganked while warding

Handy Sandy 13 votes

{quoted}

goes to ward

either gets all ined by lane opponent or ganked while warding

then you're picking a bad time to ward. this is why it's important to know jungle routes, and not try to ward when your opponent is 2 feet away from you.

YumaS2Astral3 votes

Well, there are some champs which can bypass wards. Examples:

Zac Kayn

Others can do that only after 6, which still gives a chance to you to prevent ganks before, but ganks after level 6 tend to be more devastating unless you are ahead (and even then you can lose your tower):

Evelynn Rengar Nocturne

Also, you can't cover every spot with wards. Between item 3361 recharge time, you being able to place only one item 2055, and all means of vision removal, means that wards aren't actually as efficient as a means to prevent ganks, compared to past seasons.

Also, if you are overextending, you might as well not ward, because you aren't going to escape even if you see the enemy jungler coming, unless you warded into a spot very far away from your lane.

It doesn't mean you shouldn't ward of course. But wards aren't going to 100% prevent ganks for you. And you should avoid overextending if possible.

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

The thread is entirely about a 2:40 gank at full health though which neither Zac nor Kayn can do. Kayn finishes both buffs at about 2/3-3/4 health after doing chickens in the middle and has a garbage level 3 gank to begin with and generally only does it to get passive stacks. Zac on the other hand has a completely garbage clear especially on red side and is more proned to level 2 gank mid (which can ALSO be warded against fairly easily) since he takes quite a bit of damage in the jungle clearing before his Bami's.

What Is Smite2 votes

There are fully detailed warding guides out on the internet and they cover pretty much everything from which junglers you're facing and the spots to ward when playing against them.

AirKingNeo1 votes

except, again, you need a lead to leave lane to put down the type of deep wards for those junglers.

What Is Smite1 votes

you don't necessarily need a lead, just shove your wave into their tower and go place a deep ward or two.

AirKingNeo1 votes

yeah, that would be a lead in lane pressure. You need to be able to pressure lane to do that.

If you're against Jayce, you can't.

AirKingNeo1 votes

opponent either has high waveclear or is a lane bully, preventing you from getting near warding position without losing half HP or more.

In case you didn't know how league works, you need a lead to be able to ward.

Leetri1 votes

You can ward the river bush from your tower, there's a specific spot you can stand in for it to reach. Or if you can't do that you can just go to the thin wall near the blast cone to pop a ward over the wall.

AirKingNeo1 votes

sorry, but you're red side top lane and warding doesn't do anything because you'll get tower dove regardless and die.

Rootlo2 votes

It dosent though lol. I walk right by wards on my way toplane and pick up free kills.

Scary Door11 votes

Am I missing something here?

If you're getting ganked every game, as you imply, in top lane by the opposing jungler, don't you think you would have learned to ward and play a little bit more defensively/passively?

This kinda sounds like a "get good" issue.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku5 votes

don't ask too much here.

sobi9996 votes

Tbh most of you guys are actually missing the point that OP is trying to get across. His main point is how fast junglers can clear camps and reach lvl 3 before even top laner does. Overall, the main issue doesn't reside around junglers having a powerful lvl 3 gank but powerful ganks overall. I am pretty sure the OP has a brain to avoid ganks if they consistently happened around lvl 3 (maybe in his elo or at top lane) so i have no idea why people are acting smartasses and pretending to be faker behind a computer screen.

Urgot x BDSM10 votes

item 2056 item 2056 item 3649 You are getting ganked at 2:40? Well, I would say its great news. You don't even have to think when to put these guys.

saltran2 votes

"the human is the only animal that stumbles twice with the same footprint"

Xerath Aim Bot9 votes

In your other thread you said you wanted to be able to solo carry as top where you could 1v5...or some shit like that. How is that any different in regards with current jungle. Pot meet kettle.

Diamond2Kappa7 votes

**any **lane

ftfy hehe nerf junglers imo

Harden Stepback7 votes

Meanwhile your jungler is farming krugs on first clear smh..

2Charmnot2Charm10 votes

Then 10 minutes into the game after being hard camped by the enemy top laner you press tab to see that your jungle is still 0/0/0 and your team has no dragons.

Bonus points if that jungler is a good early ganker like Lee sin.

HaIlMonitor6 votes

The last time Junglers were able to stay in jungle and farm it up was season 5 when everyone complained about a 20 minute power spike.... Now with power spikes at 12-15 minuites that sounds goofy lol.

Rexxiee32 votes

{quoted}

The last time Junglers were able to stay in jungle and farm it up was season 5 when everyone complained about a 20 minute power spike.... Now with power spikes at 12-15 minuites that sounds goofy lol.

Atleast you could play laning phase.

Now they just come at not even 3 minutes in and sit there until they win the lane for their top, then they come again 6/7 minutes in to dive you and take first blood tower (at that point you basically dont exist anymore, and have fun getting trash talked by your team aswell including your jungler that never counterganked for you), nice laning phase experience top lane has nowdays, and ppl wonder why everyone is quitting top for other roles.

HaIlMonitor6 votes

Not dissagreeing but top also is the home to some of the most oppressive champions in all elo. From Unkillable tank, to crazy range poke, to Champs like Riven/Camille/Irelia that a single longsword means you cant farm anymore. The lane is trash from the start of laning, to getting gank(s)(ed), to carrying games. Its just how it is now so I dont blame top laners.

MorganFreemanBot6 votes

"Junglers shouldn't be able to power farm the jungle and come out as strong as laners, they should have to gank and take risks!"

"It's oppressive when junglers are powerful gankers who can threaten laners, they should just farm more and only gank when a great opportunity arises!"

Junglers need to have a reliable and (semi) stable way to stay in the game. The hard-farming route was veto'ed because it turned the jungle into a fourth lane with reliable income. So now it's far more volatile in the form of ganks, but missing out on a few does not remove you from the game entirely due to catch up xp.

Sorry, you don't get it both ways where junglers cannot farm and, if unable to skull-feth enemy laners reliable, fall massively behind in all respects.

Acheron165 votes

What really annoys me with these posts is how people bitch and moan that roaming roles get their job done, making the game not only dynamic but also, you know A FUCKING TEAM GAME, but also bitch when X, Y, Z role is OP because they are able to solo carry.

These boards trully are the biggest multiheaded moron I've ever seen.

saltran2 votes

That's why they adore Hashinshin, it's his mind gameplay: Go Top with a bruiser, push and kill the enemy Top, keep pushing alone and never group, you are playing in a 1vs1 and if the enemy jng ganks cry that he's cheating.

Daunt5 votes

The game would be hella easier if you'd actually turn on your brain instead of auto piloting. Its literally impossible to die from that gank unless you fuck up and don't respect the enemy jungler. I'm so sick of boards wanting everything served on a silver platter because they're incompetent at playing this game. MAYBE the problem is that you're bad. Why aren't high elo players complaining how jungle is broken?

Also, it saddens me that this is getting downvoted by the boards shitters. Instead of complaining and downvoting legit advice that people give you maybe you should improve at the game.. Keep it on boards! Keep wondering why people think you're a joke of a community.

Xerath Aim Bot3 votes

{quoted}

The game would be hella easier if you'd actually turn on your brain instead of auto piloting. Its literally impossible to die from that gank unless you fuck up and don't respect the enemy jungler. I'm so sick of boards wanting everything served on a silver platter because they're incompetent at playing this game. MAYBE the problem is that you're bad. Why aren't high elo players complaining how jungle is broken?

Probably because people are bush warding instead of deep/jg path/entrance warding. OP isnt playing on the current account so its hard to judge, but willing to bet, hardly purchases control wards and probably doesnt swap out initial trinkets depending on how the game goes.

Daunt5 votes

Even if he does bush ward, using your mini map and basic knowledge about jungle pathing you can judge where their jungler is going to be at a certain point in time. Sure, you can't always precisely judge his location but that's what wards are for (AND THE MINI MAP). He knows he's likely going to get ganked on level 2-3, he doesn't respect the enemy jungler since he didn't reveal himself yet and he dies.

This was literally always in the game. It's astounding that people are making multiple posts about this subject.

Xerath Aim Bot6 votes

{quoted}

Even if he does bush ward, using your mini map and basic knowledge about jungle pathing you can judge where their jungler is going to be at a certain point in time. Sure, you can't always precisely judge his location but that's what wards are for (AND THE MINI MAP). He knows he's likely going to get ganked on level 2-3, he doesn't respect the enemy jungler since he didn't reveal himself yet and he dies.

This was literally always in the game. It's astounding that people are making multiple posts about this subject.

Itll die down just like the outcry about ADCs.

Its not hard to pay attention to see which laners show up late. Nor is it hard to figure out a jungle path (or close to) depending on the champ. Easiest example is Twitch. Lv2 cheese gank. Red > Mid Gank or Double > Gromp > Scuttle > Top or some variation of that. Should be warding around the 1:50 to 2:30 mark depending on what you think is going to happen.

But of course its easier not to and get ganked then come to boards and complain that jg are too op.

JoeMG2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xerath Aim Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7aX3e8qp,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-11T14:42:45.882+0000)

Itll die down just like the outcry about ADCs.

Its not hard to pay attention to see which laners show up late. Nor is it hard to figure out a jungle path (or close to) depending on the champ. Easiest example is Twitch. Lv2 cheese gank. Red > Mid Gank or Double > Gromp > Scuttle > Top or some variation of that. Should be warding around the 1:50 to 2:30 mark depending on what you think is going to happen.

But of course its easier not to and get ganked then come to boards and complain that jg are too op.

Dude, clearly the jungler doing his job means that the jungle is broken. Especially when you consider there's no possible way to tell when a gank might come or for your jungler to gank for you too.

/s

Xerath Aim Bot2 votes

{quoted}

Dude, clearly the jungler doing his job means that the jungle is broken. Especially when you consider there's no possible way to tell when a gank might come or for your jungler to gank for you too.

/s

I don't even...

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Crede7772 votes

It's not about knowing the jungler is there or not. I ward up and understand jungle pathing / timing. The problem is that knowing or guessing the enemy jungler is top, I have no choice but to back off of the creep wave and just give an xp and cs advantage to my opponent.

If I choose to not back off and give up xp and cs, then I will almost certainly lose flash and stopwatch when I inevitably do get ganked pre-3. At that point, I really have no choice but to give up lane because any intelligent jungler will just cycle back around for a repeat gank.

My problem isn't the ganking, it's the complete loss of being able to determine whether I win or lose my lane. That choice should come down to my skill vs that of my lane opponent, not what the jungler chooses to do.

I need to have a choice in the matter that's different from either become super passive or die.

Daunt3 votes

Jungle pressure is something you simply have to accept. It's always been in the game. Losing some creeps is still better than losing flash or getting killed. If your jungler comes later, good you get to be even again with the enemy laner, if not he can still pressure other lanes and give your teammates the edge. This isn't a 1v1 game. As much as i like solo carry potential in League this is still a team game and there are other factors besides yourself in it. Also, once you see the enemy jungler somewhere else on the map you can play aggressive.

Crede7773 votes

I can accept jungle pressure, but that shouldn't come into effect during the first 5 minutes or so of laning phase which is where lanes are often determined at higher levels of play.

It's a relatively reasonable request that Riot increase clear times/difficulty and delay junglers hitting 3 until after solo laners have already hit it.

Daunt3 votes

Why not though? Lanes are definitely not determined at that point and high elo players know it. Mostly cause they don't actually get cheesed as often by the early ganks. That's just something lower elos like to complain about. 'The game being decided at x minutes'.

MorganFreemanBot3 votes

{quoted}

Why not though? Lanes are definitely not determined at that point and high elo players know it. Mostly cause they don't actually get cheesed as often by the early ganks. That's just something lower elos like to complain about. 'The game being decided at x minutes'.

It's not that they don't get cheesed so much as they don't make themselves vulnerable.

High ranking junglers will absolutely take the free 3 minute gank at top.. provided it's free. The counter point is that high ranking top laners will have that ward down to see the gank coming, not have shoved the wave and be hanging out at the enemy tower, and will also read aggression and back off rather than fate.

saltran2 votes

Wait you want Toplaners to adapt? Good luck there.

Daunt2 votes

Part of the reason why people are hardstuck. Instead of adapting and improving they'd rather complain cause it's easier. If League was still the same game from a few years ago it would've been dead by now.

saltran2 votes

To be fair I should say not "toplaners" as a class, it's more a Boards problem than a toplaners probem.

Rexxiee4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xerath Aim Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7aX3e8qp,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-02-11T14:23:55.307+0000)

Probably because people are bush warding instead of deep/jg path/entrance warding. OP isnt playing on the current account so its hard to judge, but willing to bet, hardly purchases control wards and probably doesnt swap out initial trinkets depending on how the game goes.

Yeah let me start the game lvl 1 with a control ward instead of an item.

Do you ppl even read your own advice and how ridiculous it is?

Rexxiee5 votes

{quoted}

The game would be hella easier if you'd actually turn on your brain instead of auto piloting. Its literally impossible to die from that gank unless you fuck up and don't respect the enemy jungler. I'm so sick of boards wanting everything served on a silver platter because they're incompetent at playing this game. MAYBE the problem is that you're bad. Why aren't high elo players complaining how jungle is broken?

Also, it saddens me that this is getting downvoted by the boards shitters. Instead of complaining and downvoting legit advice that people give you maybe you should improve at the game.. Keep it on boards! Keep wondering why people think you're a joke of a community.

"just dont play aggressive/never trade/never do anything until after laning phase is over"

Yeah, let me just not play the game because junglers exist and are overpowered, god forbid i try to play aggro early game and get some good trades in.

Daunt4 votes

Maybe you're supposed to track the enemy jungler before playing aggressive? You know, like every high elo streamer does on stream. If you happened to get camped fuck it. There's not much you can do about it besides giving your team the edge since your jungler can help botlane more. Patience and awareness are also important besides mechanics.

TeCoolMage4 votes

I actually used to wonder this but one thing to keep in mind is that even if you set your lane up to be ungankable there are many times where you'll sacrifice CS and HP to do so. It's more than possible for the enemy to build up a gold lead purely from your paranoia then dive you and win 1v1

It's a lose lose situation vs certain champs

Daunt2 votes

That just comes with the jungle pressure that they put on you, losing some CS is still better than dying. And i don't think you have to be paranoid about the ganks. You still have wards, play around the vision that you have while keeping in the back of your mind the presence of the enemy jungler on the mini map.

Escheton5 votes

I remember when an early gank meant you and your laner were lvl 3, and the jungler was lvl 2. They had the number advantage, but if you managed a few good trades (A FEW GOOD TRADES, not just 1 that took half your opponents health) before the jungler came, and played it well, you could walk out with a double.

God I miss season 4.

Squey2 votes

With more and more junlgers able to avoid wards and the availability of wards being lowered every season, Top lane is becoming free gold. Now tower diving is becoming a staple of the top lane so playing safe isnt even possible anymore.

The ridiculous power that the jungler has on top lane is so massive right now that everyone was FORCED to go scaling or ranged champs for this meta. Over half the top lane champs are not good right now because you are forced to play safe and thus lose your early game advantage.

Skorch2 votes

I feel like if its a free 300-400 gold there is something you are doing wrong.

EDIT: Also wait a minute you are level 30. And no matter what website i check you havent played a game in 7 months. Care to post a replay of this game to prove its a bug.

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