Why is draven allowed to be ridiculous for months while singed gets hotfixed day 1?

Rexxiee·Aug 1, 2017·89 votes·3,333 views

Can we get some draven nerfs hotfixed? Its been overdue.

106 Comments

Big LincolnAug 1, 201730 votes

riot doesn't like bruisers

Chogath is fine because he's been promoted to tank

RalanrAug 1, 20179 votes

He's an abomination who shouldn't be considered a tank.

Big LincolnAug 1, 201713 votes

gee boss he seems like a tank to me

why else would he be good right now lol

RalanrAug 1, 20174 votes

Fuck you. You know it's because of how he interacts with item 3193 and how his new E works.

Big LincolnAug 1, 201714 votes

item 3800 too let's be honest

tank items mmhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm heheeh

SalsonAug 1, 20173 votes

So Tank + item 3800 + item 3193 = Assassin, that is still a tank.

kargishAug 1, 20175 votes

He's also a warden item 3193 + item 3190

Sahn UzalAug 1, 20176 votes

Unique Playstyle*

5000000000000000Aug 1, 20172 votes

Should just be tank/assassin

Sahn UzalAug 1, 20171 votes

No. Don't blame Cho'Gath's shit on other subclasses. They haven't done anything wrong!

5000000000000000Aug 1, 20171 votes

Seriously though, his kit looks so much like a tank, all except for the ultimate true damage nuke. Even the passive portion of the ult belongs on a tank.

Arsenic SulfurAug 2, 20171 votes

Cho'gath is Cho'gath. He doesn't really have the qualities of the 2 subclasses for tanks, too much range and CC for juggernaut, and not enough sustained damage for battle mage.

Big LincolnAug 3, 20171 votes

range does not exclude a juggernaut

Illaoi Urgot both have impressive range on spells

IceKingChernobogAug 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7UVFO0vH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-01T03:33:47.955+0000)

riot doesn't like bruisers

is fine because he's been promoted to tank

meanwhile he can nuke my full health Volibear for like 4000 true damage.

Starcraft243verAug 1, 201716 votes

No that's false.

Cosmic WarperAug 1, 20175 votes

{quoted}

meanwhile he can nuke my full health for like 4000 true damage.

4k? no.... his ult with stoneplate and 3-4 items does around 1.7-2k true damage. It's still insane, but 4k true damage? nice try

SpoofghoulAug 1, 20172 votes

ive seen it happen

cho with stone plate over 20k hp

nom 4k true damage

luckily i was sion and had 7k :( myself

Cosmic WarperAug 1, 20175 votes

{quoted}

ive seen it happen

cho with stone plate over 20k hp

nom 4k true damage

luckily i was sion and had 7k :( myself

custom games don't count

jasonkikAug 1, 201724 votes

Riot: "B-BUT WORLDS!!! WE NEED TO SHOVE RANDOM CHAMPIONS INTO WOOOOOOOOOOOORLDS"

Low Elo JG EGirlAug 1, 20177 votes

+1 because you're probs gonna get downvoted.

JaxMoonStealerAug 2, 20171 votes

He's dissing Riot, that's one of the easiest ways to get upvotes.

Low Elo JG EGirlAug 3, 20171 votes

It seems I'm the one that got Downvotes. The tables have turned!

BârdAug 1, 201716 votes

Because Singed was ACTUALLY too strong.

They beefed up his W and reworked his passive into something incredibly strong, while simultaneously buffing his base stats so he didn't lose the health he was getting from his base mana with his old passive.

The result was a nearly unkillable wall of poison-spewing meat running at you at mach 5, while you can't run away because he grounded you. There wasn't much counterplay, since he was too tanky to kill and too fast to get away from.

Draven, on the other hand, has so many weaknesses even in his current state that he doesn't need nerfs.

His passive is useless if you just bide your time. Play passive, but ready to pounce on the slightest misstep. He will win a straight up fight in the early stages, and trades very well, but a caught Draven is squishy and immobile, so he's dead. Kill him before he kills you and he is in a bad spot. Hell, if you are sure you will die, you can deny him the proc by killing yourself on another champion. If he procs it in another lane with his ult, you can't stop that, but you CAN punish it. If he blew his ult CD and you still have yours, that's a HUGE edge, so take the opportunity for a return kill.

His Q is powerful, but VERY unreliable. A single CC and he will end up dropping axes, which decimates his damage output. The axes also give away his positioning, so you can use them against him.

His W is great, but its short duration means he has to catch axes for it to mean anything.

His E is mediocre, only good for stopping dashes, and his ult (while a decent spell in its own right) is still the worst global ult in the game.

He has damage, and that's it. High, unreliable DPS. His spell damage sucks ass, and his mobility/CC are right there with it.

ModAcademy KaynAug 1, 201715 votes

Because with proper focus and team coordination, you could CC a Draven, and burst him down. Singed kills you, while lapping you 5 times in the snow, building much tankier, and with much more "mobility", meaning his soopa speed.

Edit: Had a game where we did that as Yorick. Wall that motherfucker, let him eat cake.

MarshbouyAug 1, 201714 votes

This. Not to mention a singed feels like ass to play with and against. The enemy team has to deal with a constant splitpusher while the allied team has to deal with playing a 4v5 with minions pressure.

LimrickAug 1, 20174 votes

Because Draven is the epitome of good game design, what a delight to play with and against. XD

SqkergAug 1, 20173 votes

He's not nearly on the level of singed.

SanKakUAug 2, 20171 votes

New Singed doesn't fit the profile of constant split pusher I think unless you have some crazy awesome build for him that I don't know about. He's too mana hungry to realistically maintain the split pushing unless he ends up buying items that make him vulnerable to enemies trying to kill him.

I Main SwainAug 1, 20176 votes

shout out to all the people who actually know how to play against Draven and are wondering why the entire boards is forming a lynch mob

volvagia46Aug 3, 20171 votes

are you new here? the boards do this with every champion/item eventually

GayFluffyUnicornAug 2, 20171 votes

Yeah exactly, just like we could do the same thing against that kog maw in my last game. Oh wait, he had nunu keystone+knights vow+locket+drain tank. Me jarvan jumping at him dropping everything i had, ziggs ult, ziggs Q+E he got knock upped and all the shit you can imagine just so he stands there and rightclicks without even moving surviving every of our attempts that shit is ridiculous and that's why draven is unkillable with the right setup.

ExecutionerAug 1, 20176 votes

When was the last time I've seen a draven actually meta? Most likely around a good year or two.

Twitch, he has always been under the radar.

RegulasAug 1, 20175 votes

Why is it that most champion complaint threads are basically just an OP going: "I'm way way too stubborn to ever change my strategy according to the opposing champion, there's no need, after all if my perfect strategy doesn't work it just means that the enemy champion is overpowered."

Pentium2Aug 1, 20171 votes

All they have to do is learn how to trade in lane, but nah, standing still and AAing like an idiot while also drawing minion aggro is what I imagine they do on an ADC.

Trading with draven in lane 101: He lasthits a minion with his axe, place the marker back or on a side, you now have the time to hit 1 or 2 AAs as well as your skillshots.

This is very simplified, he might drop the axe on purpose not to take the dmg, but you still win on that, since he lost an axe. Similarly, any sort of hard engage support can make you drop your axes, which results in no dmg from his side.

It is really similar to what cooldown window trading is for, Riven used her shield? You now have 2 seconds (or whatever is the CD on it, I don't play her, nor know her CD times) to trade with her, Thresh missed a hook, boom you have 10+ secs to zone them off farm or engage in their asshole.

ExecutionerAug 1, 20171 votes

It's so simple, yet they never understand that.

Pentium2Aug 1, 20171 votes

Also this is why Varus is a good pick into him, you get a couple AAs on him and explode the stacks with a skill, on top of having heal reducer on his E and an ult, that if you hit you can AA for free with your larger range.

Jhin is also good but for different reasons, which is the safe farming and wave control.

ExecutionerAug 1, 20171 votes

Varus has always been a good pick, though I never pick him. Mostly because all I see are engage comps after engage comps. However I do like varus against draven, also good against just healing supports in general. Though I never pick varus that much. lol

Jhin I love jhin, just for the sheer amount of distance and movement speed he can kite. With 100% crit chance, god it's fun because of the movement speed to kite and reposition.

LethalTempo JhinAug 2, 20171 votes

Draven is like the worst lane matchup for Jhin.

You literally can't do anything against him other than pray he doesn't capitalise on 1 mistake you make, and plead for ganks.

Sure 100% crit is nice, but how are you reliable going to get it? You need boots, generally a Scimitar and a LW item, an IE.

You get 80% crit at best against meta teamcomps. If there is no frontline, you might as well run lethality.

And like realistically, if they don't have that much CC, you are better off with GA imo.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 2, 20171 votes

Man it IS SO SIMPLE. PLEASE enlighten all of us dia+ players (you know where he is permabanned and otherwise reaches 60% winrate up into masters) how simple it is to play against draven. Random silver pleb #54 knows the truth how EASY it is.

ninjaroxasAug 1, 20172 votes

why are so many response's just "i'm way way too stubborn to believe a champions is too strong because i don't struggle against them myself,so that means you're bad"

RegulasAug 1, 20172 votes

Because most people don't struggle against them, on the whole the games balance is reasonably solid. Certainly there's variations in overall strength but there's very few champions that are genuinely problematic and Draven definitely isn't one of them.

And especially because complaints are mainly always about these types of champions like Draven: Champions that need to be played around rather then strong champions. E.g. Dravens case you can't directly trade meaning you have to respect and play around what the Dravens going to do to win. And you can win but that requires playing outside the normal playstyle by more then you're used to. Or Illaoi, people always complain when they fight one even if they are winning and it's not because she's actually strong, it's because you have to absolutely play around her abilities or you'll loose, but people are too stubborn to do that, it's the same reason that that loosing lane keeps dying because they refuse to acknowledge they are behind and have to respect their opponents abilities.

Or for example whens the last time you complained about Rammus? Or seen a complaint about his strength? He's consistently been one of the strongest and best characters in the entire game every single season, I don't think rammus winrate has ever been below 52% and on average across the years and it's often been in the top 5. But You've probably only ever thought of him as a weak champion and has probably never even been on your radar at all because his playstyle doesn't force you to play around him in the same way as say a Draven or Fizz does.

ninjaroxasAug 1, 20172 votes

I'm not saying draven is completely broken, i do think he's to strong for his only weakness to be catching his axe's. It was more that your first comment was just calling the OP bad with no reasoning behind. Just knowing how to play agaisnt a champ isnt always enough you have to factor in the rest of the team as well, if his team can peel for draven he's a lot harder to kill Also i know rammus isn't that weak, killing yourself on a rammus isn't uncommon , I've 1v1 a vay and killed her as him

Mody birdAug 1, 20175 votes

Because he's not as strong as people here think him out to be. He has way too much counterplay

Here's a tip from a draven main. Camp him, kill him about twice in lane and watch how useless he will become for the rest of the game. Basically deny him kills

BlåbæretAug 2, 20172 votes

Yeah guys, "just camp and kill him". Yup.

zaqatAug 1, 20172 votes

Just had a game when draven mid had only an item 3006 and m item 3139 and item 3134 , he 1v3 of our team, and killed us all, malzahar, ryze and xayah, he killed us all, alone, because he is soooooooooooooooo balanced.