when i think of a balanced assasin...

SwiftKitten88·Jun 5, 2015·4 votes·512 views

i think if a champ that has drawbacks

like a champ that has great burst but cant sustain a fight after all spells are burned and has to get out before reengaging so not and champ likes and

someone who can farm decently but has to do so at risk so not so like

a champ that can take some skill or setup to engage an opponent with and offer counter-play to that engage so not so like or

as assassin that doesn't completely shred TANKS and bruisers just as easily as squishes So not so like or

a champ who has good escape but cant completely juke out of damage to safety over a screen away so not so like or

that's how i define a healthy assassin

12 Comments

Blade of JusticJun 5, 20155 votes

Nid can escape and sustain a fight.

How does she fit that criteria?

SwiftKitten88Jun 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7TKlEBy1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-06-05T06:25:14.658+0000)

Nid can escape and sustain a fight.

How does she fit that criteria?

yeah nid can pounce like 4 feet away while zed and lb can juke 1-2 screen away. sure nid CAN escape some some champs.. but and cc will stop her.

lb and zed and escape to far away even after being CCed to low hp all nid can do is pounce over a wall.

sure she can sustain a fight 1v1 in a laning phase but in a teamfight? no.. her heal is on on a 15 second cooldown... you can heal 1 target, you either use it on yourself or a teammates either way the teamfight is going to be over by the time i comes up again.

my point is Zed has no drawbacks. NONE. Nidalee is the only assasin that i feel really has enough counterplay to her

i mean let take about countplay to nid.

not only can u pick two entire classes of tank and Bruisers and have an almost guarenteed win whart are her abilties? Spear: dodgble Traps: seriously? there isnt a skill in the game that has more counterplay than these and they dont even DO anything. heal? not offensive... and her ultimate is swap forms...

let look at cougar pounce unless nid lands a spear on you can cant pounce in from far away takedown: unless your hunted the damage from this is quit pathetic swipe. melee aoe...

nid ENTIRE kit relies on her landing a spear to proc hunted... if she cant land that spear, your not going to die.. PEROID.

Zed 's counterplay?

rush item 3191 into item 3157

ok first off unlike other mid AD assasin like Yasuo or Talon seekers isnt going to save you once he hits 6.. the only thing that can save you after he is 6 is item 3157 .. thing is, there isnt a chance in hell your goign to finish it before he hits 6 that gives him a 5-10 min window where you CAN NOT trade him. until you finish it.. and THEN you stil' have no mana regen...

sure if you managed to NOT FEED HIM by the time you finish item 3157 you should be fine; but seriously? good luck with that..

Blade of JusticJun 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

nid ENTIRE kit relies on her landing a spear to proc hunted... if she cant land that spear, your not going to die.. PEROID.

But isn't that like saying "Ez relies on hitting his skillshots. If he can't hit them, GG."?

Any Nid worth their salt won't miss most of their skillshots and when it comes to engagements, no one doesn't engage to kill like Nid doesn't.

What's the need? Being able to throw damaging abilities from afar with heals to sustain her and cougar form to get away means that unless you're within execute range, she doesn't have to get close.

I just hate having to fight a champion that interacts less with me than Heimerdinger.

As far as Zed goes, you can use the same complaint that bruisers and tanks can just survive through the burst and CC him.

Honestly, if I had to pick assassins that I find to have the "cleanest" kits, that would be either Talon or Shaco.

Their engage skills are also escape skills. So once they're in, they better be able to do work or have a fall-back plan.

pE4CbxDPQOJun 5, 20151 votes

So.. Kha'Zix or Talon?

BlackEyesBlueJun 5, 20151 votes

... sooooo this is an Ekko defence post? I can't tell, what is your point?

SwiftKitten88Jun 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

... sooooo this is an defence post? I can't tell, what is your point?

no, i didn't include ekko becuasebe just got released, he is pointless to include until after he gets nerfed to a normal state.

my point was Zed fills NONE of these categories and is completely broken and only gets love tap nerfs, where as Nidalee fills absolutely every one and yet she she gets hit hard with nerfs because of the invisible spear bug. which affected many different skills.

LankPantsJun 5, 20153 votes

Nid really isn't an assassin, and she's certainly not healthy. She's more of a mobile poke mage, which is just a straight up stupid idea.

She also doesn't fill all of your categories, but it can be hard to see what's stupid about a champ you main, I understand that.

someone who can farm decently but has to do so at risk

Nid is a very low risk farmer, since she can auto out a wave in human form and swap to cougar if she's ever challenged. Also you can't trade with her thanks to her E, forcing you to rely on all ins.

a champ that can take some skill or setup to engage an opponent with and offer counter-play to that engage

Hanging back and throwing Q's until one connects isn't any more skilful than anything Zed does.

Although all of your points can be applied to Talon and most to Akali/Diana/Rengar so maybe that says something.

Nameless VoiceJun 7, 20151 votes

Nid can't farm safely in lane. She has to rely on her autoattacks alone, which gives her no waveclear if she is building AP. Otherwise, she has to switch to cougar form to clear, which leaves her open to huge amounts of harass.

That's why you rarely see lane Nidalee any more, instead you see her in the jungle.

Still, I wouldn't call her healthy, because while she has counterplay (dodge her spears), the counterplay only allows you not to die to her - late-game, it's almost impossible to outplay her and actually kill her, since she is so incredibly safe when she stays back and pokes.

SwiftKitten88Jun 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7TKlEBy1,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-07T21:24:43.707+0000)

Nid can't farm safely in lane. She has to rely on her autoattacks alone, which gives her no waveclear if she is building AP. Otherwise, she has to switch to cougar form to clear, which leaves her open to huge amounts of harass.

That's why you rarely see lane Nidalee any more, instead you see her in the jungle.

Still, I wouldn't call her healthy, because while she has counterplay (dodge her spears), the counterplay only allows you not to die to her - late-game, it's almost impossible to outplay her and actually kill her, since she is so incredibly safe when she stays back and pokes.

nid has a lot of counterplay in lane. EVERY time she misses a spear that is a 6 second window in which she cannot trade you.. becuase nid cant trade you at all unless hunted is proced. that is the time you go all in on her and get out. because nid will lose every 1v1 trade without hunted proced.

late game she cant really do much to go in even if she lands a spear, she is great at picking off low hp champs but so so freaking squishy herself she cant pounce in unless the people are already occupied killing another target. nid has to wait for her teammates to engage the fight if she wants to stay alive. her job in teamfights is pretty much just to cleanup the low hp champ that would otherwise escape

Nameless VoiceJun 7, 20151 votes

I agree with all of your points, but Nidalee isn't really an assassin.

She has the fallback pattern of hiding half a screen away and just throwing spears until one of them hits, while being completely immune to counterattack (since she can hop away faster than you can ever reach her.)

Her assassination ability is healthy enough, but her overall play pattern isn't.

TheI3igDaddyJun 15, 20151 votes

-Nidalee -Healthy

Please pick one and only one.

SwiftKitten88Jun 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

-Nidalee -Healthy

Please pick one and only one.

can u name ANY other assasin who has all the weaknesses Nidalee does... can you name any other asssins who has all the strengths Zed does.

certain champs like i listed may overlap in certain areas.. but if you can find ANY other assasin that can either match nidalee in weaknesses or match zed in strengths id like to hear it.

if nidalee isnt a "healthy" assassin.. then there is no such thing as one. and she is just the "worst" assassin with the most counter-play then.