Champion Diversity makes no sense when the duo lane meta is always ranged AD + support

FalconPawwwwnch·Jun 11, 2015·37 votes·3,191 views

Riot, you can keep pushing for "strategic diversity" and "champion diversity" but until you address the fact that bot lane has been ranged AD + support for the past FOUR years now, your words won't really mean much.

You don't need a bruiser on a 5v5 team You don't need a tank on a 5v5 team You don't need an assassin on a 5v5 team You don't even need a mage, you can run an assassin and a bruiser/tank

You ALWAYS need a ranged AD.

Every time this topic is brought up you continue to ignore this, but until you address the fact that one class of champs is always mandatory, true strategic diversity never will exist in LoL

78 Comments

TehNACHOJun 11, 201521 votes

Well to be fair, Ranged AD is more diverse than you give credit for and there are reasons why Supports straight up must exist for most teams that want a chance at the later stages of the game.

ADCs with support like tendencies like Sivir, Ashe, and Varus, to Burst ADCs and Spell-Weaving ADCs like Graves, Lucian, and Ezreal, to true hyper carries like Vayne or Kog'Maw. Different champions for different jobs.

And don't tell me that that doesn't matter, I mean if you really want to balance a team between its carries for example, you wouldn't try to force a true hyper carry ADC like Vayne or Kog'Maw into the same team as a late game AP Marksman like certain builds for Cass or Azir. Most teams would try to pair up a mid game Burst ADC to make the best out of all stages of the game with those kinds of champions, so there is in fact strategic diversity.

That's also one last point. Riot never promised Champion Diversity, they promised Strategic Diversity. The large majority of the work they did with the Jungle items and Jungle rework was literally exactly that, cutting off the excess fat in Champion Diversity so they can highlight Strategic Diversity instead (ex. While the gigantic pool of champions that were able to Jungle with S4's Spirit Stone can no longer do so in S5, different classes of Jungle champions are getting highlighted, like our transition from strictly bruiser Junglers to tank Junglers being the norm and multiple other Junglers revolving around them).

EDIT: Hell, if you watched the LCS long enough, you should know by now that even the whole idea of a "duo lane Support+ADC bot lane" is and has been flimsy for quite a while now. Lane swaps, solo Marksman top with Support+Bruiser/Tank bot, the infamous "double jungle" from S4, and so on. The players sitting in the highest level of play don't even respect the idea of abiding exclusively to this meta.

EDIT EDIT: To those of you reading wondering about why Supports "must" exist, consider this for a moment.

There are 3 lanes, and one Jungle, 4 streams of consistent income. There are 5 people on the map. You have the option to either split one of those consistent streams of income among two people, or starve one.

Now consider that power tends to ramp exponentially in this game (especially for Carries), meaning two half developed people are not necessarily equivalent to one fully developed person.

Also consider that there are a lot of elements in the game that do not rely on gold, which we tend to put all into one name: utility. CC, movement speed buffs, enemy debuffs, etc.

With these three elements in mind, consider why Supports are nearly "mandatory" if you want to focus on efficiency.

FalconPawwwwnchJun 11, 20155 votes

Okay, that doesn't change the fact that 18 champions make up 20% of each team, when there are about 120 champions

TehNACHOJun 11, 20157 votes

It does actually.

The whole

And don't tell me that that doesn't matter

is literally exactly that. Those 18 Marksman you are calling out are divided into at least 3 different jobs, so that 20% of the team is really more like 6.66% of your team's role possibilities there per job per marksmen.

EDIT: And that's if we assume the standard division of 5 per team. Throwing in lane swaps and support variations, that percentage of possibilities that the 18 Marksman make up individually each get smaller and smaller.

FalconPawwwwnchJun 11, 20156 votes

I can make the same argument for every other class though

Take Fighters, there's 36 of them total on Riot's client.

How many of them of the 36 are competitively viable right now ANYWHERE? I'll give you a hint, it's pretty much limited to Irelia, Rumble, Gnar, and Hecarim

That's 1/9

Edit: Forgot about Gragas, Rek'sai, that's still pathetically low

TehNACHOJun 11, 20154 votes

You're arguing something entirely different now.

To counter this argument though, the vast majority of AD Marksmen aren't used bot anyway. Only a select few ADCs actually sit bot at any given while the rest sit in top (Urgot, Quinn), are AP Marksman (Azir, Cass), or are straight up never used in the current meta.

Now if you'd like to get back into your slightly more original

{quoted}

Okay, that doesn't change the fact that 18 champions make up 20% of each team, when there are about 120 champions

argument, instead of sending me on a goose chase for answers towards entirely unrelated questions and challenges, that'd be great.

TerchioJun 11, 20152 votes

So... Support Carry: IE. Hyper Carry: IE. Spell-Weaving Carry: ... Well, why not IE again?

That item straight-up identifies the role as a whole, and that's not good for this "diversity" you say there is down there. In fact, it's considered troll to have any type of AP on them, whereas every other role has been sprinkled with AP and AD versions. Even jungle, though they are having a little trouble keeping up, at the moment.

Honestly, I think if they removed IE from the game, champion composition would actually flow in a more normal fashion. When your attacks only have a chance to hit 240% damage with crazy rune builds, it would make some people question whether their build will sustain damage enough to pentakill the other team. Right now, ADC champions are some of the burstiest out there when the endgame comes, and that's why the class is broken. It can be countered, as ADC CC is usually quite lacking, but the teamwork required for that exceeds anything non-LCS, and that's why that's a broken mentality.

TehNACHOJun 11, 20152 votes

I would argue the Last Whisper defines the ADC role more, huh.

On a more serious note though, I'd like to point out that the pool of items AD Carries can buy without falling off too hard mid or late game are kinda few and far between, so it's more or less inevitable that there's going to be a lot of overlap in their builds:

ex. Boots - IE - Life Steal Item - Last Whisper

And that's not necessarily to the fault of ADCs at that point, just item builds.

Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with you by the way, not entirely at least. I am of the personal opinion that the entirety of the offensive item pool needs to be revamped in the near future to nearly similar or greater creativity that the S5 Jungle items. Please understand though that at the very least, of the Marksmen, there are in fact different things for each Marksman to do. Hell, most Marksman don't even have the same buying patterns with each other. BT/life steal rush, rushing Youmuu's, rushing IE, and then the gigantic mess that is when marksman should buy Last Whisper, you'll notice that even with their limited pool not everything's a clean cut.

Rinky DinkyJun 11, 20158 votes

There is zero reason to actively try and change the adc support set up.

It is not an issue for game health.

Why does this thread even exist?

Champion diversity has nothing to do with adc's being necessary. Why would you want to shut them out, even more so in a tank meta where they are even more important!

bizzle89Jun 11, 20158 votes

Totally senseless thread. I think most people think like that and thats why this "topic" is ignored. Whats next? Complaining that there are not enough monsters for 5 junglers? :D If it would be possible to make a equally strong team without ADC then no one would ever play ADC, because why should anyone take the risk to pick an ADC? Most of them have no escapes, they are squishy... "Especially because other champs have to aim skills whereas adcs rightclick"... Coming from a Tryndamere player, Vlad player etc. Really hard to land those "skillshots" :D:D (yeah it's harder to press Q,W,E,R than rightclick ::D) Try to rightclick, when the whole enemy team tries to kill you :D You actually can't 1on1 any toplaner in the lategame (exclude Vayne). I could also just make a thread: "Give the ADC's more damage and more mobility so they can 1on1 everyone. I want to 1on1 Nasus, Jax, Fizz and everyone with Kog'maw". The thing is. There are classes of champions with clear strengths/weaknesses and if you want to change that, then you'll have either 125 equal champions or other classes and then other people will come, who want to change the classes and... NO SENSE.

BluePolarizerJun 11, 20151 votes

because ADCs still can do 1 thing that no other class can do: autoattack towers from a distance. This is pretty important because often times defenders to a tower can zone all AD melees and AP can't take the tower fast enough.

LlaniteJun 11, 20153 votes

Strategic diversity.

Strategic, friend, strategic. We always have an adc because it's a good fit for the team, just as having a tank is almost mandatory.

BluePolarizerJun 11, 20156 votes

no it isn't. many LCS teams run zero tanks in every season from season 3 to season 5. how many run zero ADCs?

LlaniteJun 11, 20152 votes

One or two of their member will invest heavily into defense and act as if they were tank. I have never seen a x5 glass team.

BluePolarizerJun 11, 20151 votes

I distinctly remember a Morgana Ahri Nidalee Kalista Thresh team where everyone built glass except Thresh who had pure utility items.

It Hertz When IPJun 11, 20151 votes

Keep in mind, though, they're communicating as a 5 man team. YoloQueue, you can't pull that off.

ArkenStormJun 11, 20151 votes

Thresh is a natural tank with his passive

IcyPepperJun 11, 20152 votes

It's hard to break because it's a player-made meta, not one created by Riot.

There are three lanes and one jungle.

The ADC class is the weakest early game, and the strongest late game (with exceptions, of course). They generally scale the best with items.

The support's utility scales with low gold income, making them valuable on roam and not sharing farm.

Not to mention dragon pit is southside.

People came to the conclusion that sending the weakest early game class with a non-gold-dependent class for better control over dragon was a good idea. If we want to change the bot lane meta, we're going to have to address somethings. Ranged AD has to be relatively weak in numbers and utility due to the power of range, so buffing them might crowd other classes out (and knowing us, we'll still send them bot lane). Buffing supports is out of the question, since too much utility and damage can hurt the game (release Zyra, for instance). Nerfing ADC's will Olaf them, and nerfing supports... it hurts.

One thing I could see is making a support item that rewards roaming, since we got an item that rewards being on the frontline item 3302 , rewards poking item 3303 , and rewards sustain/defensive passive play item 3069 . All of these items, however, do one thing that encourages the support/adc bot meta: you maximize your team gold income by staying in lane with someone else farming. One item I could see to encourage a roaming support is similar to how Bard's meeps work: an item that boosts your xp and GP5 when you're out of range of minions and towers (basically in the jungle, I guess) that cancels out if you have machete (so junglers don't abuse it). Another possible change is dragon moving pits, but I doubt that would happen :/

ChargeItDownMidJun 11, 20152 votes

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Sightless66Jun 11, 20155 votes

The only reason a support is sent with them is because they are so game changing that there is no point for the support to help the other players during the earlygame.

Not really. Even if they were that gamechanging, there is no reason why they couldn't function alone. It's not the strength of the class that causes the supports to always go with the ADCs. It's the strengths of other classes that lead them to want to avoid having a support in their lane.

The main reason why supports go with AD carries is because an ADC is the least level reliant laner on a given team, as well as usually being the worst roamer. Your average mage, assassin or bruiser gets more out of levels than an ADC does, and their skills are more suited towards roaming around the map and getting kills. That means that you want one of them in the midlane so they can have the most map pressure, and you want them there alone so that they can get levels and be impactful early. An ADC just needs gold to scale, so it's fine to throw the support with him. The lost exp won't cause nearly so much of a problem, and you throw them botlane to increase dragon control.

To put it simply, it's ok to have a Jinx that is level 6 when the solo lanes are level 8. If she's getting last hits, she'll be strong eventually, and she wasn't going to contribute massively in the midgame even if she had those levels. It's not ok for a Syndra or Fizz or Katarina to be level 6 if some people on the enemy team are level 8. They need that base damage to secure kills, and they really want to use the burst those levels give them to make thins happen around the map. Take it away from them, and they lose a ton of potential power.

ChargeItDownMidJun 11, 20151 votes

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Sightless66Jun 11, 20153 votes

Adding a support doesn't actually take away from a mid laner's exp. First of all, two champions in lane receive bonus exp compared to a single champion champion in lane. That, plus the exp that a support could deny an enemy mid laner would cause a mid laner with a support to heavily outlevel a mid laner without a support.

First, denying experience in the midlane is significantly harder than denying on a longer lane. Second, even with the bonus exp, you still end up with less experience than you would have alone. Your Syndra will have fewer levels than if she laned alone. There is no way around that, and this is a problem for her because there will be other characters in the game who will have higher levels than her.

ChargeItDownMidJun 11, 20151 votes

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Sightless66Jun 11, 20151 votes

Even if your syndra was 1-2 levels behind the jungler and top laner, are you going to claim that is not worth it to put the enemy kassidin 4-5 levels behind?

That's a major exaggeration. You are not going to deny that much experience with the short lane and the side bushes, particularly since the central position of the midlane makes it easy for other lanes and the jungler to support. You're not getting that much reward out of it. Hell, look up past replays of season 3 2v1 midlanes. People did shift the ADC and support to the midlane, and the midlaners usually ended up at a higher level than both of them, and this is before the change increasing the range on exp gain. It wasn't effective then, and there is nothing that would make it more effective now. It's just not nearly as good as you claim.

More importantly, if the support was a drain on exp as you claimed, why wouldn't the support lane with the bruiser/tank and give the marksmen solo exp?

Opens up the ADC to playing against a 2v1 and being completely denied gold, and unlike a tank or bruiser, he can't go roam and try to make things happen on the map when he's in that position. A bruiser or tank can still preform actions early when put in a position when they can't farm. In a competitive environment, that's too valuable to waste throwing them with another character.

BluePolarizerJun 11, 20151 votes

Karthus doesn't give a fk about levels as long as he is lvl. 11. He scales off of gold the hardest of any champ in the game bar none, with the 2nd highest AOE sustained damage in the game (except for loljinx), sustained even after death. Why not play Karthus bot?

Azir scales off gold extremely well, shreds towers and doesn't care about levels that much after 11. Why not Azir bot with a more level/snowball reliant mid like Kat or Syndra?

Because ADCs are OP.

It Hertz When IPJun 11, 20151 votes

I've seen Azir bot. It works.

GinoSoldierJun 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It isn't a player created meta at all, the meta is in place because ranged adc are simply stronger than most other classes meaning that if a team ever chooses to play without one, they pretty much always lose. Also, marksmen aren't weak earlygame at all. The only reason a support is sent with them is because they are so game changing that there is no point for the support to help the other players during the earlygame.

I would disagree. Have you ever faced off against a Braum/Leona, or Sona/Karma bot lane (not to mention numerous other efficient combos)? Both of those comps can completely wreck an ADC at any point of the game, starting by dismembering ADCs early and making them useless for most of the game.

I've had games as Sona/Karma bot lane where somehow the enemy team lasted 50 minutes+. Their ADC still died instantly to our burst, and was feeding so hard it wasn't even funny anymore. Turrets maybe went down slower than with an ADC, but with two Lich's Banes and a dedicated push any turret would either go down or be heavily damaged.

Playing a dual-tank bot lane is trickier, but with the right team setup, it's just as easy to get around, and tower dives galore. Any number of comps can smack the traditional bot lane so bad it's scary, really.

And, yes, early game ADCs are the weakest class in the game statwise, by a fair margin. It's the very reason why you can't let an aggressive AP support poke them at all in lane, they get smacked.

ChargeItDownMidJun 11, 20151 votes

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GinoSoldierJun 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes, I have and I've just farmed and outscaled that lane horribly. There is a reason why no one runs dual support against marksmen/support, the marksmen lane will win the majority of the time.

Then their adc was horrible. Any competent adc will pull a high winrate against dual support. I honestly can't say I have seen a dual support win a bot lane above gold, much less in plat or diamond.

I'd say those players you were against did poorly themselves then. Keeping the Sona/Karma bot lane, Karma takes the farm and acts as mage and Sona plays (not too) aggressively with Spellthief's, both of them sharing ward duty (until Yellow Trinket lvl 9) and both building straight AP, both of them should;

Be able to largely outpoke you.
Be able to outsustain you with two excellent defensive kits.
At least keep up in farm, if they aren't denying you everything by making you go back every time you show back up in lane after level 4.

It does take a good Karma to handle the farm while still being able to poke or shield Sona against counterattacks. Their mid-game and late-game utility far outstrip the damage an ADC can bring as they both build AP and also have high damage, and this duo allows for insane teamfight potential.

If they kill the ADC so much as once, the lane is as good as won unless a major screw up happens. Far too much poke for the ADC to handle.

Most of that lane will depend on your own support and how well they can cope/counter (Thresh/Blitzcrank/Nautilus), but the ADC himself can usually hardly do much, unless maybe it's Tristana/Varus/Caitlyn/Kog'maw.

No, marksmen as a class are better than pretty much every melee class earlygame and on par with mages earlygame. There is a reason why teams can run double marksmen with a marksmen soloing against the enemy mid laner with no problems but no team will ever run a 0 marksmen comp.

Then explain how a smart lvl 3 Leona/Braum all-in can annihilate an ADC so easily? And with both players taking Relic Shield and maybe even Smite for later use/objectives/safe Relic Shield proccing, share ward duty (until Yellow Trinket lvl 9) and minions evenly, all it takes is a bit of communication to nullify an ADC and be able to tower dive very early.

Not to mention the horror that can be a Thresh/Blitzcrank bot lane.

Also, ADCs are NOT on par with many if not most Mages early game. All it takes is an Anivia/Ahri/Any AP poke champion's Q and they win a trade, possibly without you ever being able to retaliate because of range. It only gets worse until the ADC itemizes, at which point they gain the sheer damage to even out the trades, or the lifesteal to negate the poke.

And as far as rolling a 0 marksman comp goes, it's always possible to send an Ezreal/Kog'Maw/Ashe/Varus mid, or Quinn/Vayne top lane, and still do an ADC-less bot lane.

ChargeItDownMidJun 11, 20151 votes

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GinoSoldierJun 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A few potions and vamperic dagger is a competent support is all the adc would need.

I'm just going to disagree with this one, since you don't seem to understand how powerful Karma/Sona's combined poke is. I'm talking about Karma E+Q, and Sona Q+Power Chord AA straight up taking you down to 20% (if not killing you, which can happen if you aren't full) health under turret if you even try to farm. I'm talking about damage reduction, slows and roots, combined with shield and speed up abilities that downright make your ADC irrelevant if you manage a counterattack. And I'm not talking about full build here. I'm talking early game, when Sona only has Frostfang and Karma a Chalice and maybe a Tome.

And if nothing else, there's always amazingly buffed up ganks to count on, and easy/safe retreats through aforementioned abilities.

Put simply the only time we lose lane is pretty much when someone gets grabbed by a Blitz/Thresh at level 1-2 due to our own overextending.

ChargeItDownMidJun 12, 20151 votes

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GinoSoldierJun 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No, I understand how strong the poke can be. I've done a ton of cheesy bot lanes before. They worked well when I had low mmr but stopped working around the time I hit low gold. The problem is that you are focused on the earlygame and the earlygame doesn't matter in that matchup. A competent marksmen will simply buy some sustain and potions and just wait to the mid/lategame because of how much better they scale.

Who cares if you rarely lose the lane? The marksmen doesn't need to win the lane. Hell the marksmen doesn't even have to tie the lane, they just need to wait and outscale.

Except it's really hard to 'outscale' anything when you're far behind in kills, minions and exp, and you're an easy target when you try to farm as well as a liability to your team in fights. In the worst case scenarios, you'll be 'outscaling' at 50 minutes, at which point you'll still be one-shotted by any good burst by already fed enemies.

You also highly underestimate Karma/Sona's push potential, when we have advantage of numbers and sustain by far you can't truly stop a push. Chances are high you'll never get to 'outscale' anything is my point. AND that's ignoring the possibility of good splitpushers or an ADC elsewhere.

ProfDrDeathJun 11, 20151 votes

Additionally, ranged auto-attack based damage dealers in general are the class that is the least XP-dependant for their effectiveness.

A melee champion wants that extra tankiness from extra levels. An ability-based champion wants the extra base damage on his abilities, as raising the damage of an ability the same amount with is usually way more expensive.

Auto-attack-buffing stats only scale meagerly with levels (most ADCs get like, 108 gold worth in AD (3 AD) and 60-120 gold in AS per level), making the stats you get by leveling less important than the ones you buy with your gold. Additionally, range is its own form of safety, which usually is the same at level 1 as at level 18, meaning that the general safety level of a ranged champion doesn't particularily scale with XP. Those two things, in addition to most ADCs weak early game you described, make them the ideal class to share a lane in which they get all the gold, but less XP than a solo laner

warpenguin555Jun 11, 20152 votes

What should replace it?

Silents429Jun 11, 20152 votes

Champion Diversity =/= Role Diversity

To some extent I get what you are complaining about, but what you are talking about with the roles generally isn't a problem. It can't be helped that an "Attack Damage Carry" is needed for fights, we have nothing to replace them with.

BluePolarizerJun 11, 20151 votes

because they are op

Silents429Jun 11, 20151 votes

The squishy people that have an entire role dedicated to killing them off? Who cares?

BluePolarizerJun 11, 20151 votes

you are bronze. why are you arguing this? I think it is quite obvious that ADCs are OP if one is needed every game but you can run teams with no mages, bruisers, tanks, assassins or even supports in high elo and still win. You never question "why" the meta is the way it is. You just accept. That's fine, but don't argue with plats and diamonds who are questioning "why". They might just have some game knowledge that you don't.

Silents429Jun 12, 20151 votes

But, You can win games without ADC's?

I have done it and seen it plenty of times.

you are bronze.

Bugger off with the you are [rank] mentality.

BluePolarizerJun 12, 20151 votes

You can but you are not likely to.

I can win 4v5s but does that mean it is optimal to play 4v5 every game?

And yes, being bronze typically means you have less game knowledge than a plat or diamond.

Silents429Jun 12, 20151 votes

Have you ever seen a XinZhao and Pantheon bot lane?

A JarvanIV and Darius

Xerath and Velkoz

Attack Damage Carry does not automatically mean it has to be a marksman, and it is not unreasonable to assume if you want to have an easier time in team fights you are going to need sources of damage. This isn't a fault of Riot in the least bit, the fact we dont need a marksman is evidence to that.

BluePolarizerJun 12, 20151 votes

I played with a Lee Sin + Poppy duo bot. They stomped lane and won with a poppy hypercarry. Also played with a Master Yi + Fizz duo bot who stomped lane won game.

I played multiple 4v5s in the past month and won half of them.

All of this is in mid-plat.

Does this mean I'm gonna be instalocking Poppy and Lee Sin bot every game?

Silents429Jun 12, 20151 votes

I don't really care who you instalock for bot lane.

EvilRabbittJun 11, 20151 votes

Interesting tidbit, it isn't the best lane. At all. Just, most of the playerbase is utterly TERRIFIED of antimeta (seriously, I just did Fiora support and so many people dodged despite us winning). A good lane to annihilate bot lane (adc+support) is duo bruiser. Kid you not. Fiora+Darius, Riven+Zed, Yas+Diana. These combos destroy bot lane. Sure, they may have a tank. But these people will decimate your bot lane long before they get those good items. Meta is defined by player experience, not by company edging (and Riot has not done a thing to ADC/Support). Also, someone else said it but in LCS the ADC is actually just wherever farm is. Again, this is player base meta not actual meta. However, if you want to Nautilus/Graves bot lane be my guest. I'll just take my top lane picks down into support for that lane, feed my gluttony issues, then proceed to hard carry a game. No seriously. Please don't ruin my free wins.

BluePolarizerJun 11, 20151 votes

the only duo bruiser lane that doesn't fall off is lee sin and poppy imo.

EvilRabbittJun 11, 20151 votes

Fiora scales incredibly hard, Gnar stays relevant, Darius will shut it down, Pantheon will make them cry. Melee bruisers dominate ADCs. Its why they have supports. But what if two bruisers come at them? Nothing they can do. Thats what got me thinking to the duo bruiser, the adc always needs "peel" during the game. That usually takes 1 or 2 people. Now add in another one that demands peel, and that 2 on 2 is looking pretty juicy. Granted, not any bruiser/tank/fighter can go there- Nasus absolutely does not go bot for instance or Poppy. But, get someone with a gap closer or hard cc (or both like Gnar and Pantheon) and you are capable of completely taking the ADC out of early and maybe even mid game. Just from my personal observation, experience, and testing.

SociopathFriendJun 11, 20151 votes

You don't "need" any of those things, but there is a meta that works best for variety.

Mages go mid because they need levels to get their abilities- Assassins too. The AD needs their own lane because they need gold to get items. They also need a baby-sitter because dragon is near the bottom, so the more people the better. Tanks are supposed to be able to fend for themselves, so they go top so the jungler can focus on mid and bot; where the shortest lane is and the dragon.

CindikleJun 12, 20151 votes

You ALWAYS need a ranged AD.

I'd have to disagree with this.

You do need sustained damage and tower killing power. But an ADC is not required for this.

Urgot is more of a ranged bruiser than an ADC but will still see play in that roll. And is one of the wost champions you can pick in that roll for killing towers(he doesn't build as much AS and has low range).

Azir can probably out-kill a turret over most ADC's depending on his available W charges. Also has strong sustained DPS. Cass can fill the sustained DPS roll well enough. With an easy to gank nature putting her with a support isn't a bad idea either.

So why don't we see pro's doing it?

I guess first one is that they're mages and not ADC's. ADC mains master their right clicking. Not saying they cannot preform well on these champions, but it is a slightly different playstyle.
Heavy AP comps don't usually stay strong for long. And when they are strong it usually because of other champion types(generally bruisers/tanks) being strong.
ADC's don't need mana. In an extended fight they'll still put out dps. Cass and Azir can go OOM and end up useless.
They're chicken.
There isn't a reason to. I can't think of a team comp that justifies having heavy AD in all lanes but bottom. Most tanks are AP. Most mages are AP. Bruisers/assassins are roughly even. There is no roll that is as AD heavy as "sustained damage + tower killing" other than ADC's.

In short, it's the best option 99.99% of the time. But not "always".

DontDieRespawnJun 12, 20151 votes

Your post makes so much sense though, compare it to football. A sport must have rules to what is allowed on the filed to make the game fair. All sports live by this rule to my understanding, so what's up with E sports?

Perhaps queuing before a game you have to pick your role first. The match making system would then fill in the gaps, it could even state that more adc's are needed to queue requesting people to queue for the role if they can, that you cut down the wait time. When you get into champion select, say I queued tank I would only see tanks primary and tanks secondary to pick from. That would cut out the nonsense of first pick and you get a role you are good at. With this method people who carry their role get a better chance of winning. I know some people feel cheated when they get a role they aren't good at. They could have held their own playing what they are good at. Say I am a great quarterback and you make me a defensive lineman, do you think I will win? Honestly the concept is a win win for all. I would rather wait longer with a better chance of winning rather than queuing to losing a 40+ minute game, I never had a chance to win. This new concept gives the game true balance instead of true damage.

I apologies about my other post. I was confused, I thought you meant due queue.