New Black Cleaver on Jungle Hecarim (and other junglers, maybe)

ValyrianBlade··1 votes·2,606 views

Okay, so I saw the PBE new black cleaver building out of phage, and my first thought was Hecarim. I mean, 20% CDR (if you think he's OP in URF you must see how valuable CDR is to him) and the Phage passive and health seems perfect for him. It especially caught my attention because I normally go Iceborn Gauntlet over Trinity Force on jungle Hecarim because the jungle just doesn't offer enough income for him to reach the TF power spike at a reasonable time (and again, CDR - I want that 10% CDR from glacial shroud early and TF gives no CDR).

So, an example normal build I would do on Hecarim now based on a standard team comp and enemy team (e.g. 1 AP tank, 1 AD bruiser, 1 AP Burst, 1 ADC, and a support): Stalker's Blade - Warrior > Iceborn Gauntlet > Boots (Ninja/Mercury/Swiftness) + Homeguard > Randuin's Omen > Spirit Visage > Fill item that I rarely get to and depends on who is fed (me? Ghostblade. AD champ? Sunfire cape or Ohmwrecker. AP burst? Banshee's Veil. etc...)

The build gets 30-40% CDR, gets the spellblade passive from iceborn, and makes me incredibly tanky. excluding the 6th item (with sunfire cape): 130 armor (175) 30% CDR (30) 30 AP (30) 40 AD (40) 10 Armor Pen (10) 55 MR (55) 900 Health (1350) Spellblade passive (and immolate) plus boots, so 80 MR and 35% tenacity from Mercury Treads for example.

Downside is damage is not great, can put significant damage on squishies if I'm a little ahead but in general can't secure a kill on the back line unless someone dives with me.

With the new black cleaver (and new Randuin's), I was thinking: Stalker's Blade - Cinderhulk > Iceborn Gauntlet > Black Cleaver > Mercury Treads (Homeguard) > Randuin's Omen > Spirit Visage Potential replacements would be Warmog's armor in place of Randuin's omen against an AP Heavy team with a behind ADC, or that or Frozen Mallet or Righteous Glory or Sunfire Cape in place of Spirit visage against an all AD team.

The first 6 item build above gets 40% CDR, gets spellblade from Iceborn, gets Phage from Black Cleaver, has mad armor shred, active on Randuin's for AS against the back line, and loads of health. 130 Armor 40% CDR 30 AP 40 AD 5% - 30% Armor Reduction 80 MR 1600HP + 25% = 2000HP Spellblade, Immolate, Rage (phage) passives 35% Tenacity

Compared to the build with Sunfire Cape: So I give up: 10 flat armor pen and 45 armor (and arguably some early damage pressure by building bami's cinder instead of longswords in to Warrior, although perhaps I should build Sheen/Phage before completing the enchantment? and some flexibility in the last item and build order) I get in return: 10% CDR, 5%-30% Armor Reduction, 650HP, and the Phage Passive.

Does this build seem a LOT stronger? I'd imagine it's only slightly more costly (black cleaver vs sunfire cape).

And the more important question: is it better or worse than the typical Hecarim build (and is my current build better/worse)? Stalkers - Warrior > Trinity Force > Boots> Frozen Heart > Spirit Visage > conditional 6th item (most likely Randuin's, although I say C9 Balls building thornmail in his games yesterday [although he was top]). Notice this build also has 40% CDR, it has Trinity Force (a lot more offense) but sacrifices a lot of HP because you need Frozen Heart for the CDR (although it gets some armor in return).

I put "other junglers" in the title because, while other users and potential users of Cinderhulk can't use the phage passive nearly as well, the 400HP on Black Cleaver goes well with the Cinderhulk passive and the 20% CDR is great for tanks who get none from Cinderhulk. Pretty much, is Black Cleaver a viable replacement for Frozen Heart in cases where you don't need the FH passive (either a non-jungle teammate is building it, or the enemy team isn't AS reliant, or Randuin's Omen's new active applying the passive makes it no longer necessary?)

5 Comments

LilxPaprika1 votes

I really think we need a new sheen without the phage or movementspeed now (preferably without mana). Since bruisers need a way to do micro bursts IMO. Iceborn is underwhelming damage wise. And if you go for critical strikes, all there's left is like ghostblade which also has CDR. I guess you could just build flat damage like maw. I know botrk on trundle or shyvana will work nicely with it. Or this item calls for a new atmas IMO really badly. Never mind I guess hydra could fill that role since its active does provide something similar to sheen on hit effect. I guess its more about attrition damage like sunfir cape for thanks than? I was kind of hoping the next phage item favored both tanks and bruisers this seems more tank oriented since it doesn't really synergize well now that atmas is gone. Phage was meant to be paired with attack speed right? What attack speed items are left botrk, boots. The rest don't really syngergize aside from maybe rageblade / shiv.

As for your build idk I'd say stay trifocre. I wouldn't get iceborn and phage. More like phage and randuins don't need more mobility items.

Woook3r1 votes

Idk about what you said but I feel like this is a kog maw buff.

Azlagor1 votes

depends on the teamcombs. If you and your team can make good use of the armorshred, BC will stay a great item for Heca, so if you have a more ad-foused team and fight rather tanky enemies, go for it. If you mostly plan on diveing squishy carrys, you will loose out alot damage compared to the current BC as you lack the flat pen. If you want to have high killpressure vs squishys, warrior+current BC is quite good, or warriors + Yomuuns if you go for one trick pony, which is quite normal for a jungler as you usually would need a gold/lvl lead to get tanky and deal relevant damage, so you either pick up BC+fulltank and apply icborn slows+armorshred, or you go warriors+yomuu's and yolo-dive a squishy, hopefully kill it and probably die shortly after which isn't really bad as tradeing jungler for mid or adc usually is worth it.

Kingsgrave1 votes

item 3071 item 3717 item 3143 new meta

Works on pretty much every AD Jungler. Hecarim honestly likes BC better than Trinity with these changes. The MS is there still and the 20% CDR and Armor Shred is very helpful. He can also apply it rather quickly.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

tbh I go full AD on Hecarim (with BC as part of my build) in the jungle anyway purely because the build path is better for low-income champions.

http://matchhistory.oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/OC1/84697643/200276954?tab=builds

More from Gameplay

More by ValyrianBlade