Why Riot needs to stop automatically giving people silver as default mmr

PhantomGG·Jun 6, 2018·95 votes·20,105 views

Fact is, it really destroys the credibility of silver, it takes away the work that bronze players committed to w orking on the game and improving as players. When a bronze can get wrongfully placed in silver, while other bronze players had to work their ass off to get into silver, it really creates this really weird ranked environment where you can't trust the system to have rank representing skill but more so on luck on who got auto placed and who did not get auto placed into silver.

120 Comments

ÝisusJun 6, 201824 votes

I cannot up vote this enough. I have seen a brand new lvl 30 account come out of placements with 1 W / 9 L ... and still be placed in silver. This is why the silver bracket is so hard to get out of compared to the gold bracket.

BootyHunterRengoJun 7, 20183 votes

i've seen unranked people in my Gold 2+ games which had only played 1 game ranked so far and lost it.

Ayame IsakiJun 6, 201817 votes

This is true. As a bronze player, I actually have been working on climbing this season and have found Silver V to a far worse experience than B1 or B2 with respect the the quality of teammates I encounter. I hope once I get out of Silver V it will get better.

rtbf48419282Jun 6, 20183 votes

you get matched with enemy team with similar mmr so yeah, stop complaining about your team mates. Sometimes you do get unlucky and encounter some trolls. (I personally have trolled several games). But those are select few and if you keep playing the game and if you're legitimately good at the game, you'll climb the rank. Still, you do have to play the ranked many times. You have to play the ranked that many times to get to a specific rank. This is why the rank alone is not an indicator of your skill. Not many people have the time to play a hundred games within a season to climb from silver to diamond. Not only that, there will be very radically disruptive patches mid season at riot's whim, that will overthrow your previous strategy and take away crap ton of your time to figure out a new strategy. So in the end, more time = more games = higher rank = no life.

KarunamonJun 6, 201826 votes

(I personally have trolled several games)

Riot, please?

rtbf48419282Jun 6, 20181 votes

ranked game is designed so that people play with serious minds to attain whichever rank they desire.
because of that there are more people who choose not to troll than people who choose to troll.
thus more games you play = lower the chance you'll encounter trolls.
I trolled because I no longer play this game, and was enlightened to realize that pursuing rank is no longer satisfying
trolling is another part of this game that is fun

but the fact remains. The enemy team has the similar mmr as your team. So if your team is losing, it is because of factors other than the mmr of your team. Learn the game. Figure out what that other factors might be.

The down votes on my original post tells me how likely it is for people to blame on other people for their problems. Why is it that people always want to blame stuff on other people? My god this is just a game. Can you just at least once in your lifetime stop blaming stuff on other people? (there are only very few cases in this game and in life in general things are truly other people's fault. The funny thing is, if you've lived long enough, the unlucky ones are the ones who have no say in this. Blaming other people is a privilege. Sometimes something can be truly other people's fault, and you may be unlucky enough to have all the blames on you).

KarunamonJun 6, 201828 votes

I trolled because I no longer play this game, and was enlightened to realize that pursuing rank is no longer satisfying

trolling is another part of this game that is fun

Riot, please?

OpistachJun 6, 20182 votes

[deleted]

Troll for TrumpJun 7, 20189 votes

Toxic.

rtbf90661456Jun 7, 20186 votes

I climbed from bronze V and peaked diamond III last season, all I'm gonna say is there are boosted bonobos at every elo, I'm one of them xd

Hèntaî Jun 7, 20183 votes

Just wait till you get to around S3-1 thats where the real fun begins

BestPudgeNAJun 7, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7E6KLUpr,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-06-06T20:28:56.179+0000)

This is true. As a bronze player, I actually have been working on climbing this season and have found Silver V to a far worse experience than B1 or B2 with respect the the quality of teammates I encounter. I hope once I get out of Silver V it will get better.

It doesn't. You will get 31% win rate supports playing mid with 200 games played in your Silver 4 games vs a mid main that was placed in bronze but currently is s3 with 60% win rates. Thoses game are really fun.

A Brave ToasterJun 7, 20182 votes

This is the case for pretty much every V division, it isn't a silver thing.

TipulJun 7, 20182 votes

It won't get better my dude, trust me. Wanna know something ? I have been hardstuck silver eversince i started playing this game(back in 4.17). Truth is that in some of those games i feed but THE VAST MAJORITY i lost beacuse i was teamed up with ape minded idiots. Nothing changed in this game for years and you really belive by the hope of some random God that you will have more experienced team mates

MigYalleJun 7, 20182 votes

Silver 4 is also a bit of a struggle, but I do think Silver 3 is where it starts to turn around and Silver 2/1 feel a lot better.

AidanWRJun 8, 20182 votes

It doesn't get much better. As someone who has climbed through Silver multiple times, it gets slightly better as you get higher ranks, but as soon as you get to gold, almost everyone thinks that they are the best player and will flame at you for no reason

Done25Jun 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7E6KLUpr,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-06-06T20:28:56.179+0000)

This is true. As a bronze player, I actually have been working on climbing this season and have found Silver V to a far worse experience than B1 or B2 with respect the the quality of teammates I encounter. I hope once I get out of Silver V it will get better.

I have bad news for you buddy...

Ayame IsakiJun 8, 20181 votes

[cass-cry]

KarunamonJun 6, 201810 votes

Okay, so where do you want the fresh level 30s placed? Silver is average. Most people will be in that general skill bracket.

Any MMR/Elo/skill ranking system ever devised has to assume a starting point for someone's skill, and adjust it from there.

It Hertz When IPJun 7, 20184 votes

Nah, we'll put all the new players in Bronze. Granted, that just takes all the OP's list of complaints and foists them on Bronze, but hey, we don't give a shit about Bronzies, amirite?

MorticianjohnJun 7, 20187 votes

The game is old enough that many or most who play ranked have years of experience not just a couple hundred games. New players are almost certainly well below average

Flawless FetusJun 7, 20185 votes

They should take it back to how it used to be. There was a point in time where bronze had to be achieved. A new player was unranked, and until they hit the elo of bronze, I think it was 1000 - I forget, they remained unranked.

KarunamonJun 7, 20181 votes

You mean like someone is during placements?

Flawless FetusJun 8, 20181 votes

Maybe? Idk your question confuses me.

hi ìm grootJun 7, 20186 votes

Ya IDK anyone that thinks new players should be placed in silver. Its been very odd that people have been bringing up that this kind of makes low elo into a clusterfuck, and gives no validity to the lower ranked structure as skill disparity can be absolutely massive. But... riot... never... does anything, or comments about it to justify their decision...

For probably MOST league players the highest rank they can achieve is the rank they'd get placing a new account, and thats insane.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 7, 20181 votes

Bronze level is too low... even for someone starting the game. Even when i was starting my rank i was definitly better than a bronzie.

They need to change manything if you every to start in bronze.

Budget YamiJun 8, 20181 votes

not high bronze, ppl can be smurfs or are being crushed by smurfs/ bad teammate. You are thinking of bronze v, a bronze 4 is much better than a bronze v

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 8, 20181 votes

Smurfs won't be bronze. High Bronze is still very bad... just a bit less than V.

Budget YamiJun 8, 20181 votes

ok... im bronze 1 lol

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 8, 20181 votes

Thats why you shoudn't have any pride in your elo like most on this board or the one making a thread for saying silvers arent' bad.

Even plats are bad (im plat).

Beacon AcademyJun 6, 20185 votes

I've learned many things smurfing on many accounts like

The first five games are vital, you need to win them to boost your mmr for better teams for the remaining five games.
Its easier to get placed in gold on a fresh account if you do placements later into the season. (Silver 4 beginning of season verses Gold 3 near end of season on two different accounts for the same amount of wins 8-2)
It seems better to do bots and no normals until level 30, the high KDA in bots seem to make them think you need better team mates (This last one is just my opinion, I was probably just lucky)

AFilthyCaitMainJun 7, 20184 votes

This is why silver is one of the "ELO hells". the skill differences in that elo are so damn high.

NecrosideJun 7, 20184 votes

No there's not.

MystVearnJun 6, 20183 votes

I always assumed you started at 0 MMR, how much you gain or lose in those first 10 games cannot be assessed without knowing the MMR of the opponents, but I find it hard to believe that a new player who goes into ranked an loses all 10 games is going to end up in Silver, would need to test it out though.

rtbf55359909Jun 7, 20183 votes

I agree so much with this, getting up to silver was a nightmare for me.

nGioJun 7, 20188 votes

My nightmare is having to start in Silver every season for all 3 queues, after I've ended in Gold+ in all 3 queues every season. End Plat, win 8/10 promos, and place Silver 1. Great system we have here.

RavoreJun 7, 20183 votes

"Worked their ass off to get silver" OmegaLUL

LetMeCarry1983Jun 7, 20185 votes

Yes, fam. It is not easy to get to Silver if you've never climbed it before. Reaching Silver was one of the most difficult things I ever did. Now I can get it consistently because what I learned stuck with me but that first time was pure hell. Struggled in B5 for months before I figured out how to get out 2 years ago.

NecrosideJun 7, 20183 votes

The first year I played League was in Season 3... Got Silver 2 and ended Gold 1 first season.

The issue with the "climb" from Bronze/Silver is not teammates. It's literally you either unable to learn the game in a month or you just don't have time.

Bronze/Silver are the casual ranks for a reason.

windappleJun 6, 20182 votes

I think this is completely valid but there is the whole thing about Riot adding a couple new ranks so I think this'll change with that.

ModAcademy KaynJun 7, 20182 votes

credibility of silver

There's hardly any difference between Silver and Bronze.

LetMeCarry1983Jun 7, 20183 votes

I regularly play with and against people in both elos. They are vastly different.

shoe6535Jun 8, 20182 votes

Yeah. I started playing the game pretty recently did my provisionals as a lv 30, fed my ass off and got placed Silver II. I dropped a whole bunch and I shouldn't have been placed in silver II in the first place.

MorganFreemanBotJun 7, 20181 votes

It's fine.

The "50%" mark of Ranked is in low silver; Silver 4, I believe?

It makes sense to put new players there because, well, it's a 50/50 chance they'll be better or worse than that. No more and no less, it's statistically the right call.

It's also the right call player skill wise. Many of the players who are in that area, but aren't new, just straight up aren't that good. They know a bit (like a new player), but also have a shitton to learn / refine / work on (again, like a new player). It's not quite the cesspit of trolls and failure which Bronze is, but it's also not going to see the taken advantage of and totally raw-dogged to the extent gold and higher would.

BestPudgeNAJun 7, 20186 votes

{quoted}

It makes sense to put new players there because, well, it's a 50/50 chance they'll be better or worse than that. No more and no less, it's statistically the right call.

No it's not. There is no way a fresh level 30 on avg. is better then half the player base half the time. That's fucking insane.

Risen29Jun 7, 20181 votes

Riot also needs to stop placing people based off previous seasons rank. Even if they tank placements.

They need to earn thier place each season.

Especially since the way matchmaking and the game design is set up its a lot easier to coast near a 50% winrate to just camp your rank than it is to actually fight your way back up there from a lower rank.

The current system encourages elo boosting.

It rewards players with ranks they dont deserve because they havent played enough in the new season to be good.

It also leads to a glut of players who play like they should be a divison lower but never go as low as they should. Like the infamous diamond 5 hell.

I think it would also be smart to implement a very light decay system for all ranks. The higher up you go the less light the system gets. Obviously we dont want to force players to play several games a day to maintain basic rank. But something as small as one game per week could go a long way towards weeding out the boosted accounts and people who dont deserve to be at thier rank anymore. They might not fall very fast with only one game a week, but at least they are falling so they can't just camp gold V or diamond V all season after getting boosted early on.

They should probably also get rid of the division V protection people have after a certain amount of time. Give them some time to adjust and get a cushion of Lp? Sure. Permanently protect them from dropping back a division unless they go atrociously low in mmr? No.

Budget YamiJun 8, 20181 votes

uhm what if you have strict parents (like me) and cant play every week?

Risen29Jun 8, 20183 votes

{quoted}

uhm what if you have strict parents (like me) and cant play every week?

Lose LP.

They dont cater to kids who are forced off the computer because thier parents say its time for dinner or bed either. You get leavebuster and reported like anyone else.

The integrity of the ranked system as a whole is more important than the rare kid who plays so infrequently they cant even get one game a week in. At that rate of play they arent contenders to climb past bronze anyway so its not like it matters for their end of season rewards. No kid young enough to have such severe gaming restrictions is going to be able to reach gold V even without decay. They cant put in the necessary time to be that good, let alone the number of games necessary to get to gold.

I would say that we dont even need to bother having rank decay for bronze since nobody is boosting to high bronze and camping there.

Budget YamiJun 8, 20181 votes

ok... I dont really leave games.. When my parents allow me, they let me finish the game lol.

They arent THAT strict i mean i DO play every week for a few hrs on the weekend but i wanted to branch out to the very casual players who play like once a month. A lot of my friends dont like all the new changes and stuff but they like the game so they just dont play it as often

EDIT: They are also Gold so they can reach it no problem... Im bronze 1 so thats a different story (i'll make it to gold over the summer when school's out?)

Risen29Jun 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

ok... I dont really leave games.. When my parents allow me, they let me finish the game lol.

They arent THAT strict i mean i DO play every week for a few hrs on the weekend

In other words, you lied.

Not a good way to make a point kid.

You just proved your own point to be invalid by admitting you don't have an example case to draw on.

but i wanted to branch out to the very casual players who play like once a month.

Casual players, by definition, aren't competitive. They shouldn't care about rank. And if they are that casual they probably don't have the skills necessary to get to Gold V anyway.

A lot of my friends dont like all the new changes and stuff but they like the game so they just dont play it as often

Then they don't deserve to keep their rank, if they can't adapt to the changes and still be competitive. You're proving my point with your comment. It's a detriment to the integrity of the system when people camp at a Gold V all season without playing a single game, despite all the changes that take place.

That's also not a casual player you are describing. A casual player is not someone who was once a hardcore player who then just stopped playing for a while because they didn't like some changes. A true casual player by definition either never played the game often to begin with, or they never played with the intention of getting better and climbing the ladder.