Can we make Duskblade the I.E/D.C/Cinderhulk for Assassins?

Dreadlocks··14 votes·1,456 views

Maybe its just me but i feel like this item isn't providing the stats it should for being what riot initially wanted it to be. Back when the item was released, A LOT of assassins were building crit.. Youmuus had crit, which was around the time that Youmuus-I.E Zed was popular. Then they released this item to hopefully give AD Assassins the equivilant of the ADC I.E and D.C for mages.

item 3814 55 AD 35 MR Spell Shield 20ms ooc -15 Lethality- 3100g item 3142 60 AD 20%ms 10% CDR 20ms ooc -15 Lethality- 2900g item 3147 65 AD True Dmg on-hit auto sweeper 20 ms ooc -15 Lethality- 3250g

Sure it gives the most stats.. As it should. My question is, why doesnt it give the most -Lethality- When thats kind of the idea behind buying the "super lethality" item. I mean.. if you buy D.C you get to give all your other AP items a big boost, Your I.E gets to increase all your AA dmg, your cinderhulk stacks up your hp.. I know not everything should be balanced the same way.. But why can't we take 5 AD off for 20 Lethality? Or increase your Lethality by a % instead of giving you like 100-175 true damage to your combo.. Better yet, if im using my item 3364 or run up to a spot that has a item 2055 can we PLEASE make it so it won't trigger_ Blackout Passive_?

Not going to say i have a perfect solution, nor will i say that its a huge issue. For me its missing the mark as the Ultimate Assassin Item.

Edit: Also notice how item 3071 seems to be the best assassin item? I know riot has had an issue balancing this item.. but its seriously crowding out the lethality items, probably making it hard to make lethality items strong too. Maybe it needs a bigger rework than what Riot is doing to it? Make it Shred Bonus armor? Wouldn't that possibly make buffing Lethality less scary? idk, just my 2c.

Edit 2: Patch 6.3 it was Released, here is the context: NEW item 3147 Duskblade of Draktharr New item for assassins. Basic attacks give a mini-death mark on your target.

It's well known that many AD assassins who relied on attack damage items took a hit with the transition to 2016, especially with the changes to Last Whisper. These days the 'core' item build that feels good often only goes to 'build Ghostblade and Maw and hope that's enough to finish them off.'

Balancing around core items is something we do for every class, but assassins have been left in the dust - forced to scrape by on whatever the best damage items happen to be, making our balancing points for them somewhat… very inconsistent. Duskblade means we can give those folks a core item that not only helps multiply damage in a full build, but also offers a clear expression of power for those with a gold lead.** marksmen have Infinity Edge, mages have Deathcap - and now, assassins have Duskblade.**

Duskblade's passive, Nightfall, provides a different angle for assassins to contribute meaningfully in a teamfight. Missing health damage is unique in that it can be considered a damage amplification for your team - capitalizing on all the work your allies have done so far - allowing assassins to feel more capable on clean-up duty and less pressured to throw their lives away in pursuit of bopping a marksman. BUILD PATH Serrated Dirk + B.F. Sword + 850 gold TOTAL COST 3250 gold ATTACK DAMAGE 75 BONUS MOVEMENT SPEED 5% UNIQUE PASSIVE +10 Armor Penetration UNIQUE PASSIVE Basic attacks on an enemy champion apply Nightfall (120 second cooldown) NIGHTFALL After 2 seconds, Nightfall deals physical damage equal to 90 + 25% of the target's missing health. If you get a kill or assist on the target before Nightfall detonates, the cooldown is refunded.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-63-notes

35 Comments

Alex h87215 votes

I agree the item is underwhelming, i recently took up Talon (got him to mastery 7), and for me the item is only a situational 4th buy (after boots) at best, and situationally ill only build it if 3+ members of the enemy team havent built bonus armor to get to 30 lethality but if there's 4 item 3047 for example on the enemy team I'm probably not gonna grab it because its just not worth what i could get from another item for the same or less gold

Dreadlocks2 votes

I feel like every Assassin should find value building this item at some point in the game.. Mages almost always want DC eventually, and its never really a bad option. It just cost a shitload of gold so thats 1 of the reasons its passed up.. But i'd take a price-increase for the better fitting stats.

statelesskiller3 votes

because ADC's ruin everything

Rengooo3 votes

This... As soon ad lethality or "assassin builds" become strong you just get these knobs abusing it: MissFortune Jhin

Buff duskblade and make it melee only or something.

Dreadlocks2 votes

Buff duskblade and make it melee only or something.

This^ or make it less appealing for adcs.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

It already is the equivalent of IE. Its bonus damage increases by 200% of your Lethality.

Dreadlocks2 votes

Big whoop, 100-177 true damage on hit... Not very impressive. The most it can do is 225 if u run leth quints and reds which no one does anymore. And precision mastery ofc

They should increase the scaling and make it only proc once every xx seconds.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

btw when u take lethality runes u sacrifice ur early, for a weak result in late (if u are lucky to have a late)

Dreadlocks1 votes

Oh I know, its not that great lol.

Warhammer Titan1 votes

It would be nice if it was a good starting item like banshees or morello on ap mid laners. Those items are so much better then any ad starting item, which can give them an advantage

Dreadlocks3 votes

I feel like it should be buffer item for the lethality items you already bought personally... Sure it has the true-damage on hit.. but i don't think thats very impressive..

Warhammer Titan1 votes

I just think having the mr and spellshield would be nice for laning and mini engages but I see where you are coming from

Dreadlocks3 votes

I mean i think item 3814 is kind of that item for assassins.. And maybe others will disagree but to me item 3142 item 3814 should be the utility lethality items that they are, and item 3147 should be the one that amplifies the damage in some way..

You have item 3087 item 3046 and then you have item 3031 or even item 3035 that makes those items more cost efficient / hurt even more

You have item 3165 item 3102 then you have item 3089 or even item 3135 to make those items hurt more..

Yes we have item 3071 I won't discount that.. But it works a little differently and shouldn't be taking the place of item 3147 as the Assassin Best Item.

Warhammer Titan1 votes

Oh I read your post wrong I thought you were talking about edge for somr reason. Yeah I agee that dusk defiantly should be the item that is like your deathcap, where its a item you should actually work for

Dreadlocks2 votes

I mean thats exactly what they wanted it to be when they released it.. Idk if they lost that vision or what.. Just seems like another Lethality item instead of being the amplifier it should be.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

i agree for item 3147. And i think we should have another item item 3134. 3 item 3134 isn't enough. And give at least 10% cdr on another item would be good (maybe on item 3814 )

Dreadlocks2 votes

They need to make duskblade the comparable item to dc and ie like they said. And why is edge of night still 3100g lol my goodness.

LordGeovanni1 votes

I wouldnt mind 70 ad on the item if the passive was a longer cooldown. Though im not okay with more mobility on yet another safe high damage class. Rather id like riot to remove movement speed fromitem 3113 and item 3086 . Aether wisp is fine but the items that build out of it has both too much movement speed and damage. item 3113 3% movement speed. item 3100 5% Movement speed item 3285 7% Movement speed additional 3% for ranged champions when passive resolves double for melee champions. Bring back zephyr or another item and make it attack speed and movement speed (rebalance jhin when it makes him broken like everything does.) Items like lethality need lethality drop off for distance from cast location. On non melee interaction dash moves.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Why more ad, but not more lethality.?

LordGeovanni1 votes

Because more lethality is more armour penetration and **I believe ** that armour is already shit, and its more true damage riot hasnt shown that they and balance true damage properly and I don't believe in giving children fire to run with. Riot would have to massively buff defensive items with stats. Though i rather they lower defensive stats per level on carries so they dont naturally break the 100 defensive stats which are the most effective 100 points of defense for every one. New runes may fix that but thats all the way in pre season. Another way it can be done is to reduce the effectiveness of the fires 100 armour and magic resistance for everyone then make it up in the values reaching 200 this helps damage be more previlant versus people not building dedicated defense.

Dreadlocks1 votes

For some reason, they had youmuus with the 20 lethality.. Which should've been tested on duskblade first given its the "assassin item" They already admited that they might have overnerfed lethality so i feel like if they're looking to buff it, Duskblade should be the first look.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Armor is already shit Oo but they buffed armor number with Vangard update (and lowering hp).

LordGeovanni1 votes

No they buffed armour ammounts but armour is less effective the more you have so by losing hp armour and magic resistance as defrnses are in worse places even though the values went up (By about 30 for armour with a full build while losing 400 odd hp assumeing you want to be useless building full tank if not you gained less from the 'buffs') .

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ńø Çígâr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7B5e1edg,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-06-06T04:21:05.440+0000)

Why more ad, but not more lethality.?

Honestly it simply feels like too much specialization.

If you specialize that much in Lethality, you really are double downing on glass cannons. Which is only as useful as the number of glass cannons on the enemy team.

I think this is part of the reason why BC is decent on many Assassins, because it gives them bit better shredding power against off tanks and other semi tanky targets. And because most AD Assassins are casters, they also benefit from the CDR as well.

Buy and large, Assassins will benefit from a combination of AD, Lethality, and CDR for their most offensive functions. So to make their cap stone item something that mainly focuses just Lethality, is probably not as effective as you might think. (Even if it would be oppressive against targets the Assassin was already made to kill.)

Dreadlocks1 votes

I was honestly surprised when they released the item and it didnt have cdr.. I agree with a lot of what u are saying but at the same time we have other options to increase our survivability. We dont say crit items suck because they dont give lifesteal..

ParvatiShallow1 votes

The blackout passive triggers me because many times I can't even tell where the ward or trap is unless I do a scope check of every nearby brush I passed. I just see an eye over my head and I frantically look for something to destroy but it isn't efficient. Probably should at least improve the detection system since that is a big part of the item's identity. Make the trap/ward more obvious at least so I don't miss it.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Yeah i think that part is pretty weak as well. Its like, "hey you are walking over a ward!" - "what where!?!?!" 10 seconds later, "surprise mutha fka"

Sire Hippington1 votes

I think If Duskblade is supposed to be the scaleing item for assasins, it should be a bit more expensive with accordingly better stats. I also think the passive effect needs to change. The truedamage proc after stealth is to specific. On many assasins, you only get it on 1, at max two procs, while others can reliably get 3+, makeing it hard to balance the true damage across the board.

Maybe Duskblade should stay as it is as an vision focused assasin item, thogh eventually with some changes to the passive so it's a bit more usefull for champs that don't have multiple stealths in a fight, and then get a new item that actually works as expensive scaleing item for lethality.

Dreadlocks1 votes

I think they could just make the tru dmg on hit stronger and then give it a long cd so it only happens once.

Daddy Ants1 votes

Mini Death Mark?

No thanks I don't want a Duskblade Zed having 2 ults essentially.

Hard enough to survive 1 as an ADC.

Nor do I want duskblade MF 1 shotting people again.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Never did I suggest that it did. I merely posted what was said about it on release. If u are New to the game, thats what it use to do.

Rengooo1 votes

And then as it gets buffed watch Jhin take over the meta again :/

Dreadlocks1 votes

I dont just think it needs s buff, it needs to also be more appealing to assassins than adcs. I think thats why it has the tru Dmg part, its just pretty insignificant to me.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Duskblade needs its execute back if it's going to be an assassin's final form item.

Dreadlocks1 votes

I dont think its a "need" but it would def be a step in the right direction. It needs to give MORE damage specifically Lethality.

More from Gameplay

More by Dreadlocks